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      09-28-2007, 06:31 PM   #1
Dustin Bramell
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From Vishnu Support

I wanted to post this in another thread, however it was closed while I was writing. I feel it is important to discuss given the current state of e90 post. I hope it shines a little light on what we are up against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedBMW View Post
Honestly, I have supported Shiv and Vishnu's products since over a year ago before I even had my 335 at the time, with his development of the xede/procede. Lately, given their seemingly overwhelming amount of work, their customer service seems to have taken a hit according to what I read on this forum. AA on the other hand always seems to answer the phone, returns emails and PM's, and at the end of the day sometimes that is just as important as the product itself. I don't think that max whp/tq #'s are the only thing that sells a product when you are a tuner, and I hope that the Vishnu guys will maybe take that with more then a grain of salt.
I think there is a big misperception on this forum regarding how we operate, and our ability to support our customers. The fact of the matter is, we spend all day, even a good portion of our weekends supporting our customers via email, phone, PMs and posting. We do our best to make sure every issue is resolved, and that accommodations are made for those with special needs. In order to better serve our customers, we have kindly asked that a few systems be used, like our tech call backs and PMs. This helps us manage a much larger load of questions and technical help.

However, there are many people, some of which are on this forum that insist on not using these systems, which of course slows us down, and clogs up the tubes, so to speak. For instance, I am known to sometimes give customers my personal cell number if they have an extenuating tech support circumstance. I am happy to do this. However, it is not appropriate to call my cell phone to ask the status of a v2 order, which has happened multiple times this week, even once while I was at dinner on my birthday. Seriously, we don't know how it happens, but we are getting calls on our home phones, our girlfriends' phones...I think my grandma even got a call about v2. Ok, maybe not...but you get the point. And we get the point, you guys want to be in the know. The best way to be in the know is by using one of the forms of communication we request. And understand that we don't work 24hrs a day.

Switching gears for a second, the internet is a blessing and a curse. It is great for distributing information, because of the large audience that is able to view it. And of course, the instant feedback that can be generated when a question is asked. "How many wheels does the 335 have?" "Four." That question was simple, and anyone could answer it in a matter of seconds. Now the curse comes into play when the information gets more technical. Because we have learned that asking a simple question generates a response in a matter of minutes, we then expect technical and difficult information to be generated in the same manner. The fact of the matter is, the more technical the information gets, the fewer people there are that know it, and when those people aren't around for a few hours, then an email is sent, then a call is made, and then of course a post is made about how we are horrible humans. And then of course, that becomes the public perception.

In other words the solution isn't to hire more people who aren't capable of distributing the information you guys need, but rather creating a system that allows the people who know the information (Shiv, Calvin and Myself) to distribute it easily. And when people refuse to use that system, then we are stuck in a serious catch 22.

In a very long winded response, I am suggesting that a single form of suggested communication be used for the most timely reply. If I am sent a PM, an email, and a phone message, all from the same customer, chances are I will reply to all three, because I know if one falls through the cracks, we will have hell to pay on the forums. It is a vicious cycle, and we want to curb it sooner than later in order to get you guys what you need, and have been waiting for...new products, and support.

Also, if you ever have any question regarding who to contact for what, please see our signature files.

Thanks,
Dustin-
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      09-28-2007, 06:37 PM   #2
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well said.. thats was really needed actually
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      09-28-2007, 06:45 PM   #3
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      09-28-2007, 06:47 PM   #4
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Time for a CRM system. The business is growing and these are some of the growing pains.
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      09-28-2007, 06:49 PM   #5
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Dustin, your points are understandeable and I fully agree.

On the other hand the heat generated around Procede was maybe a genius marketing movement at the beginning, but U know, no matter what caused it, there is a terrible delay on the release. Because of that the end of the whip smacks on your back. Regarding the published support issues - again, I agree with U, but U should think about it carefully - there's no smoke without fire.
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      09-28-2007, 06:50 PM   #6
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CRM FTW!!! SugarCRM is free.

btw, where's my v2? jk....
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      09-28-2007, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judec View Post
Dustin, your points are understandeable and I fully agree.

On the other hand the heat generated around Procede was maybe a genius marketing movement at the beginning, but U know, no matter what caused it, there is a terrible delay on the release. Because of that the end of the whip smacks on your back. Regarding the published support issues - again, I agree with U, but U should think about it carefully - there's no smoke without fire.
i dont see you guys get mad at Microsoft for marketing a HUGE product with awesome features that they do not even deliver!
sorry.. that was too geeky
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      09-28-2007, 06:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantis View Post
CRM FTW!!! SugarCRM is free.

btw, where's my v2? jk....
Yeah, but with PeopleSoft/Seibel/Oracle CRM, maybe I can get a job and a discount on Procede LOL...
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      09-28-2007, 06:52 PM   #9
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+1 - ppl get anxious waiting for their products, but then they forget about those that need help and support too.

Of course we can get jb2 and AA faster i a matter of a week, but the question is, how many are users they currently have outhere and how many are they globally supporting at any given time?
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      09-28-2007, 06:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92phreak View Post
Yeah, but with PeopleSoft/Seibel/Oracle CRM, maybe I can get a job and a discount on Procede LOL...
haha SEIBEL at a garage there's only 3 users man. maybe microsoft crm would do if they wanna go pro, yet small
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      09-28-2007, 07:09 PM   #11
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before this turns into a "ball licking thread" why dont you comment on all the delays, the cards that have been charged for weeks with no shipping, orders going through before release date, things that were supposed to be free being charged

ive gotten a lot of PMs after i openly started criticizing you guys for whats been going on, and guess what? turns out this isnt the only time and is NOT a rare one time occurance and apparently happened quite frequently with the EVO and SUBI crowds

love the product, but you guys need a serious reorganization of your CS network and you need to stop cockteasing the forums for months on end just to get everyone all hot and bothered over the next update and then not delivering



also loved the pm i received from you guys which i assume was an indirect threat to cancel my v2 order
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      09-28-2007, 07:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 533ogetnom View Post
before this turns into a "ball licking thread" why dont you comment on all the delays, the cards that have been charged for weeks with no shipping, orders going through before release date, things that were supposed to be free being charged

ive gotten a lot of PMs after i openly started criticizing you guys for whats been going on, and guess what? turns out this isnt the only time and is NOT a rare one time occurance and apparently happened quite frequently with the EVO and SUBI crowds

love the product, but you guys need a serious reorganization of your CS network and you need to stop cockteasing the forums for months on end just to get everyone all hot and bothered over the next update and then not delivering



also loved the pm i received from you guys which i assume was an indirect threat to cancel my v2 order
Have you been charged for your v2 order?

Shiv
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      09-28-2007, 07:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 533ogetnom View Post
before this turns into a "ball licking thread" why dont you comment on all the delays, the cards that have been charged for weeks with no shipping, orders going through before release date, things that were supposed to be free being charged

ive gotten a lot of PMs after i openly started criticizing you guys for whats been going on, and guess what? turns out this isnt the only time and is NOT a rare one time occurance and apparently happened quite frequently with the EVO and SUBI crowds

love the product, but you guys need a serious reorganization of your CS network and you need to stop cockteasing the forums for months on end just to get everyone all hot and bothered over the next update and then not delivering



also loved the pm i received from you guys which i assume was an indirect threat to cancel my v2 order
Eloquently put as usual.
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      09-28-2007, 07:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Have you been charged for your v2 order?

Shiv
just because its not me doesnt mean i shouldn't dislike the fact that its happening to others
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      09-28-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 533ogetnom View Post
just because its not me doesnt mean i shouldn't dislike the fact that its happening to others
Others can care for themselves, they don't need your support. I know your behavior quite good since a while and my guess is that nobody is really interested in your statements, no offense.

- Eugen
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      09-28-2007, 07:37 PM   #16
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the customer service has always sucked.
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      09-28-2007, 07:49 PM   #17
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I was just stating how I felt from one member's point of view. I never said you guys didn't have any customer service or anything like that. My point was that if your business is growing then maybe you need to increase your staff also to help meet the demand. I was only pointing this out because your product is excellent, but anytime I think of pros and cons between you and your competitors I always think that your product is the pro and not so much that your support is a con, but its not quite as pro as the competition's support. I also don't think that i'm the only one to think this way, but I think that many have accepted the idea of not having anyone answer the phone for long periods of time because the product is that good. Now, you are probably reading this and saying what this guy retarded, I give out my damn cell phone # for support!?! Well, that may very well be the case, but maybe Shiv needs to lay out some of that hard earned cash for some more employees as the company continues to sell more units, and not continue to place a larger work load on one or two guys. Just some food for thought, but with all of the talk of people getting pissed over charged credit cards with no shipping, delays, etc. I just wanted to make sure that you guys realized how a company's reputation, no matter how good their product may be, is nothing without support to back it. With all of that said, i'm still waiting for V2 to be available for order with 1.47 so I can finally kill two birds with one stone.
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      09-28-2007, 08:13 PM   #18
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No Offense, but you guys are in the same boat as many others with a good product and no business knowledge. You don't know how to manage a business any more than an MBA knows how to tune a car.

Do yourselves a favor and hire a competent business manager with a background in computer hardware, manufacturing, and customer service.
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      09-28-2007, 08:29 PM   #19
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This thread is going to go no where fast, or downhill fast.

I think they have done an ok job letting us know about the progress of the v2 release. Well all knew we were pre-ordering. We all know how there were wait times for v1. I hoped for the best, 20-30 v2's shipping per week, but I am fine that they are getting it right before shipping.

One thing I always remind myself at my job, is that we are not saving lives here. This product is a want and not a need. Have it today or a month from now, there is no significant impact on anyones life.

If anyone is truly upset about interest charges on a couple of hundred dollars, you should really be pissed that the value of your dollars is at all time lows and getting lower. Vishnu has every motivation to get the $ as fast as possible before they drop further in value.
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      09-28-2007, 08:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Others can care for themselves, they don't need your support. I know your behavior quite good since a while and my guess is that nobody is really interested in your statements, no offense.

- Eugen
First of all, he is defending others, just as much as you are defending Vishnu.
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      09-28-2007, 08:39 PM   #21
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i think its time to use a smiley
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      09-28-2007, 09:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
Others can care for themselves, they don't need your support. I know your behavior quite good since a while and my guess is that nobody is really interested in your statements, no offense.

- Eugen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Bimmer06 View Post
First of all, he is defending others, just as much as you are defending Vishnu.
Do you honestly think anybody wants 533 as their spokesperson?
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