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      09-05-2013, 01:50 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
That's a very naive view. Once an infrastructure is in place it will get abused. Maybe this administration, maybe the next, but no mistake - someone will. Take the IRS scandal for example, whoever is in power will abuse the system to target political enemies. It's bipartisan too. Or take the NSA scandal... storing your data, scanning your email, etc... you might be fine with that now, but you'll never know what will get used at some point against you. Maybe you are comfy with living in a police state, but I'm not. Information and data is power.
Naive? ...There is much more to my thought process I just don't care to share.
...but in general if you have nothing to hide there is nothing to worry about. I just don't sit around worrying about whether the government is watching me or the 1 in a million chance informatiion will be used by the government against me.

....and your theories about police states seem to border an paranoia.

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      09-05-2013, 01:59 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Eagle1oh7 View Post
Just because you're not nefarious in your affairs, doesn't mean it's okay. What if you're suspected and are incarcerated even though you never did anything?
Boy, I never thought about that, but now that you mentioned it..............I'll probably think about that even less.

Nefarious? That is one heck of a 75 cent word.
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      09-05-2013, 05:22 AM   #69
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The US is obsessed with intelligence gathering.
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      09-05-2013, 06:55 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Do you amuse yourself often with your own jokes you laugh out loud to?
No, the only one doing the amusing here in this thread is you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Well, if you don't share your real thoughts I don't see the point of you arguing in a political forum.
His only purpose here is to troll.
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      09-05-2013, 09:11 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
No, the only one doing the amusing here in this thread is you.



His only purpose here is to troll.
The $.75 word comment reminded me of Scotch&Cigar.
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      09-05-2013, 11:04 AM   #72
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Saw the title of this thread and thought, yeah, I see obama voters every day
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      09-05-2013, 11:14 AM   #73
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The $.75 word comment reminded me of Scotch&Cigar.
True, but if I remember correctly I think even he would have a slight issue with the US government spying on its own population.
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      09-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #74
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Saw the title of this thread and thought, yeah, I see obama voters every day
^

Don't you know it's all those Right Wingnuts wanting smaller, less involved government; who are the ones who can't think for themselves. Brain washed by the GOP.
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      09-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #75
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Have you seen the explosion of tech companies in the "Big Data" market? It's a new field where large databases are searched in tandem, to point out consistencies, patterns, and targets. The Feds are the absolute best at this, and have been for years. With the wholesale gathering data of US citizens, within our borders (this is new under Obama - it used to be just overseas, and data from Americans that was linked to known foreign terrorists), from sources like Facebook and Google, they can target almost anything or anyone - just like the IRS targeted conservatives. Without a warrant.

So it's not like the Feds are listening in - they are letting the computers do that "work", and they just get the highlights.
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      09-05-2013, 12:48 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowflight View Post
Saw the title of this thread and thought, yeah, I see obama voters every day
^

Don't you know it's all those Right Wingnuts wanting smaller, less involved government; who are the ones who can't think for themselves. Brain washed by the GOP.
Oh - and FoxNews. Don't forget that...
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      09-05-2013, 02:41 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
No, the only one doing the amusing here in this thread is you.



His only purpose here is to troll.
Well he did laugh at his OWN JOKE. Who DOES that?

Sadly it is time for me to step away from the thread. I tend to lose patience by irritating people that continue to force their beliefs on me or question my beliefs.

Words of wisdom to some of the others on this thread: It's OK to state or restate your beliefs, but leave it at that. When you continue to try to talk someome else into taking your political beliefs or question theirs, you become irritating. Most people won't tell you you are irritating, but I have absolutely no problem telling someone that.

It's like being stuck in the corner at a party with someone that goes on and on trying to sway you to take their political beliefs. All you want to do is tell them to just STFU, and you just need to get the hell away from them ASAP.

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      09-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Well he did laugh at his OWN JOKE. Who DOES that?

Sadly it is time for me to step away from the thread. I tend to lose patience by irritating people that continue to force their beliefs on me or question my beliefs.

Words of wisdom to some of the others on this thread: It's OK to state or restate your beliefs, but leave it at that. When you continue to try to talk someome else into taking your political beliefs or question theirs, you become irritating. Most people won't tell you you are irritating, but I have absolutely no problem telling someone that.

It's like being stuck in the corner at a party with someone that goes on and on trying to sway you to take their political beliefs. All you want to do is tell them to just STFU, and you just need to get the hell away from them ASAP.
Words of wisdom to some others in this thread who drive blue Z4s in Arizona: People who drive blue Z4s in Arizona are the most irritating type annoying people out there. Mainly because they completely oblivious to the fact that their words of wisdom are hypocritical.

Well, that and they lecture people in an online forum about pushing their opinions and beliefs on others when they themselves gave out and pushed their own opinion of a subject that wasn't even the topic of the thread.
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      09-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
That's a very naive view. Once an infrastructure is in place it will get abused. Maybe this administration, maybe the next, but no mistake - someone will. Take the IRS scandal for example, whoever is in power will abuse the system to target political enemies. It's bipartisan too. Or take the NSA scandal... storing your data, scanning your email, etc... you might be fine with that now, but you'll never know what will get used at some point against you. Maybe you are comfy with living in a police state, but I'm not. Information and data is power.

I've had this same discussion with some of my friends, and many of them have taken the same stance that if they have nothing to hide, why should they care what kind of data mining the government does on them. That attitude completely boggles my mind. I really don't understand why people are so willing to give up their personal privacy these days.

On a related note, I was out at lunch today where many of the local food trucks gather during the summer. There is always a large crowd there and while waiting in line, I noticed a small quad-rotor helicopter flying around the area. Of course, I have no idea if it was someone's personal remote control toy, or if it is a tool being used by the Denver PD. I really wouldn't be surprised if it was being used by the PD to monitor the crowd, as there was a recent shooting in this area during the lunch rush.
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      09-05-2013, 05:44 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
I've had this same discussion with some of my friends, and many of them have taken the same stance that if they have nothing to hide, why should they care what kind of data mining the government does on them. That attitude completely boggles my mind. I really don't understand why people are so willing to give up their personal privacy these days.

On a related note, I was out at lunch today where many of the local food trucks gather during the summer. There is always a large crowd there and while waiting in line, I noticed a small quad-rotor helicopter flying around the area. Of course, I have no idea if it was someone's personal remote control toy, or if it is a tool being used by the Denver PD. I really wouldn't be surprised if it was being used by the PD to monitor the crowd, as there was a recent shooting in this area during the lunch rush.
Boggling indeed. But that attitude stems from people only being concerned with what they want at that particular moment in their life. That and their facebook status.
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      09-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Words of wisdom to some others in this thread who drive blue Z4s in Arizona: People who drive blue Z4s in Arizona are the most irritating type annoying people out there. Mainly because they completely oblivious to the fact that their words of wisdom are hypocritical.

Well, that and they lecture people in an online forum about pushing their opinions and beliefs on others when they themselves gave out and pushed their own opinion of a subject that wasn't even the topic of the thread.

BS.

Coudn't help coming back just to tell you that. It was worth it.
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      09-05-2013, 10:07 PM   #82
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i cant imagine what BlueZ4Arizona would say if drones mistakenly targeted his friends or family. "oh its ok, theyre gettin the bad guys!"

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      09-06-2013, 12:31 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Words of wisdom to some others in this thread who drive blue Z4s in Arizona: People who drive blue Z4s in Arizona are the most irritating type annoying people out there. Mainly because they completely oblivious to the fact that their words of wisdom are hypocritical.

Well, that and they lecture people in an online forum about pushing their opinions and beliefs on others when they themselves gave out and pushed their own opinion of a subject that wasn't even the topic of the thread.


He won't be missed. Now we can get back on topic.
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      09-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #84
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I've had this same discussion with some of my friends, and many of them have taken the same stance that if they have nothing to hide, why should they care what kind of data mining the government does on them. That attitude completely boggles my mind. I really don't understand why people are so willing to give up their personal privacy these days.
I find the same thing. In California especially, I run into this a lot. People don't understand WHY they should value privacy (or freedoms). I try to point out the massive difference between not wanting to exercise a right vs not living in a world where they have that right. It seems hard for people to comprehend.

Quote:
When they came for the Fourth Amendment, I did not say anything - because I had nothing to hide.
When they came for the Second Amendment, I did not say anything - because I did not own a gun.
When they came for the Fifth and Sixth amendments, I did not say anything - because I had committed no crimes.
When they came for the first Amendment - I could not say anything.
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      09-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #85
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He won't be missed. Now we can get back on topic.
Oh Templar, but I miss YOU so much I just had to come back. ..and you too Tonka. You guys are my favorite drone subject nemesis.

While you guys are sitting around in your little pow-wow worrying if big brother is looking over your shoulder at every corner, morning, noon and night, and dodging surveillance camera's, me and the majority of American's will be enjoying life. ie- I plan to take the Z4 to lunch with the top down on this lovely AZ day. Oh wait, do the drones fly above or bellow the clouds??

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      09-06-2013, 01:57 PM   #86
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i cant imagine what BlueZ4Arizona would say if drones mistakenly targeted his friends or family. "oh its ok, theyre gettin the bad guys!"
You made a funny
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      09-06-2013, 03:31 PM   #87
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I guess it's no surprise that in the generations of facebook and twitter, where everyone is so eager to give up their privacy for short term gratification, that people don't see the issue with allowing the government to take it from them. In their mind, they already don't have or value it.

Quick hypothetical. You have Muslim friends that end up getting arrested for suspicion of terrorism. They now look at you as an accomplice/known associate to whatever they are being accused of.

They have drone footage of you at home. They start analyzing everything you do, to see if it can be construed as a connection. What movies you watch. Music you listen to. Video games you play. Are they violent? Can they be construed as anti-patriotic or divisive in any way? Do you ever complain or make negative comments about the government? Maybe you make sure to keep your blinds and curtains closed all the time so they can't see in. Well that's what a terrorist would do. That in itself is suspicious.

There's a reason when you are arrested, you are told "Anything you say CAN AND WILL be used against you in a court of law". They are letting you know that the prosecutions job is to look back on all the statements you made(which are all written down or recorded) and make ANYTHING YOU SAID appear as PROOF you are guilty. That is why when you get arrested, you shouldn't speak to the police without consulting an attorney. The second you are arrested, they will use everything you do or say to try to put you in jail.

Imagine if you needed to consult an attorney before you did ANYTHING because anything you did in the "privacy" of your own home CAN AND WILL be used against you, if you are ever suspected of a crime? Privacy, JUST LIKE the 5th amendment, isn't there to protect guilty people. It's to protect innocent people. If you don't understand this, you aren't going to understand why this is important.
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      09-06-2013, 03:36 PM   #88
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Oh Templar, but I miss YOU so much I just had to come back. ..and you too Tonka. You guys are my favorite drone subject nemesis.

While you guys are sitting around in your little pow-wow worrying if big brother is looking over your shoulder at every corner, morning, noon and night, and dodging surveillance camera's, me and the majority of American's will be enjoying life. ie- I plan to take the Z4 to lunch with the top down on this lovely AZ day. Oh wait, do the drones fly above or bellow the clouds??
I would say i was disappointed, but I would have bet the farm that you didn't have the will power to stay true to your word. So pretty much what we all expected.

When you can have the same enjoyable life 10 years from now feel free to come back and thank people like us. People who not only are enjoying life, but recognize a line in the sand and are willing standing up to make sure we, as well as annoying Blue Z4 drivers in Arizona will be able to continue enjoying life in the coming future.
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