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      09-06-2013, 03:46 PM   #89
Mr Tonka
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Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
I guess it's no surprise that in the generations of facebook and twitter, where everyone is so eager to give up their privacy for short term gratification, that people don't see the issue with allowing the government to take it from them. In their mind, they already don't have or value it.

Quick hypothetical. You have Muslim friends that end up getting arrested for suspicion of terrorism. They now look at you as an accomplice/known associate to whatever they are being accused of.

They have drone footage of you at home. They start analyzing everything you do, to see if it can be construed as a connection. What movies you watch. Music you listen to. Video games you play. Are they violent? Can they be construed as anti-patriotic or divisive in any way? Do you ever complain or make negative comments about the government? Maybe you make sure to keep your blinds and curtains closed all the time so they can't see in. Well that's what a terrorist would do. That in itself is suspicious.

There's a reason when you are arrested, you are told "Anything you say CAN AND WILL be used against you in a court of law". They are letting you know that the prosecutions job is to look back on all the statements you made(which are all written down or recorded) and make ANYTHING YOU SAID appear as PROOF you are guilty. That is why when you get arrested, you shouldn't speak to the police without consulting an attorney. The second you are arrested, they will use everything you do or say to try to put you in jail.

Imagine if you needed to consult an attorney before you did ANYTHING because anything you did in the "privacy" of your own home CAN AND WILL be used against you, if you are ever suspected of a crime? Privacy, JUST LIKE the 5th amendment, isn't there to protect guilty people. It's to protect innocent people. If you don't understand this, you aren't going to understand why this is important.
My very cool, Black Z4 driving friend in San Fran.... You were correct in your prevoius assessment where as people just don't care because they think our government is just there to support and take care of us. Governement has our best interests at heart.

Just like anything else in the world where there is a 2 sided division; as soon as the government and it's employed make up 55% of the countries population, those that oppose the government will become an enemy of the state.

Power leads to corruption, absolute power leads to absolute corruption. And all it takes for that to happen is for us to just keep focusing on Facebook and other social media garbage.
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      09-06-2013, 04:31 PM   #90
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I would say i was disappointed, but I would have bet the farm that you didn't have the will power to stay true to your word. So pretty much what we all expected.

When you can have the same enjoyable life 10 years from now feel free to come back and thank people like us. People who not only are enjoying life, but recognize a line in the sand and are willing standing up to make sure we, as well as annoying Blue Z4 drivers in Arizona will be able to continue enjoying life in the coming future.

Dude, you sure you want to "draw a line in the sand"? That got someone else in trouble this week.

Your problem isn't just with me, it's with the millions of people that have the same views as I do on this topic. The only difference is I got no problems telling you what the other millions think of your rhetoric. You seem to have a hard time dealing with anyone who stands up and tells you they don't need to hear your rhetoric.

Your little, "Blue Z4 is AZ is annoying" crap is already getting old and actually makes you sound corny. But whatever, keep it up, I actually get a chuckle out of it.
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      09-06-2013, 04:32 PM   #91
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Boggling indeed. But that attitude stems from people only being concerned with what they want at that particular moment in their life. That and their facebook status.
Unfortunately, that is so very true.
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      09-06-2013, 04:47 PM   #92
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Your problem isn't just with me, it's with the millions of people that have the same views as I do on this topic. The only difference is I got no problems telling you what the other millions think of your rhetoric. You seem to have a hard time dealing with anyone who stands up and tells you they don't need to hear your rhetoric.
Imagine if you were defending slavery, a more severe civil rights violation. Reread your argument and you can see how empty it is. You're making an argument from popularity, which is a logical fallacy.
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      09-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #93
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That's a very naive view. Once an infrastructure is in place it will get abused. Maybe this administration, maybe the next, but no mistake - someone will. Take the IRS scandal for example, whoever is in power will abuse the system to target political enemies. It's bipartisan too. Or take the NSA scandal... storing your data, scanning your email, etc... you might be fine with that now, but you'll never know what will get used at some point against you. Maybe you are comfy with living in a police state, but I'm not. Information and data is power.

I've had this same discussion with some of my friends, and many of them have taken the same stance that if they have nothing to hide, why should they care what kind of data mining the government does on them. That attitude completely boggles my mind. I really don't understand why people are so willing to give up their personal privacy these days.

On a related note, I was out at lunch today where many of the local food trucks gather during the summer. There is always a large crowd there and while waiting in line, I noticed a small quad-rotor helicopter flying around the area. Of course, I have no idea if it was someone's personal remote control toy, or if it is a tool being used by the Denver PD. I really wouldn't be surprised if it was being used by the PD to monitor the crowd, as there was a recent shooting in this area during the lunch rush.
In afraid the point has been missed our freedoms are being eroded every year. This idea of the govt having your best interest at heart is only reasonable to believe until they force shit down the general populations throat. At that point of many bites I the shit sandwich do we eat while sliding down the slippery slope into totalitarian style regimes ( neo fascist and communists) where when your neighbor tells on you even if it a lie you goto the interrogation room without any presumption of innocence and no trial and no recourse ? History repeats itself, and all the laws are in place for it to repeat here at home. So if I have nothing to hide I shouldn't care ? Yes however NO because the people give an inch the tyrants take a mile.
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      09-06-2013, 08:59 PM   #94
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Dude, you sure you want to "draw a line in the sand"? That got someone else in trouble this week.

Your problem isn't just with me, it's with the millions of people that have the same views as I do on this topic. The only difference is I got no problems telling you what the other millions think of your rhetoric. You seem to have a hard time dealing with anyone who stands up and tells you they don't need to hear your rhetoric.

Your little, "Blue Z4 is AZ is annoying" crap is already getting old and actually makes you sound corny. But whatever, keep it up, I actually get a chuckle out of it.
Since your failed logic could be recognized by a 3rd grader, i'll keep this personal for you. My problem isn't with the millions of sheeple with views like minded to your own. It's with the one who thinks he's a bad ass for being the one with "no problems telling what the other millions think". Are you so arrogant that you actually believe you know what millions of people think? I will agree that there likely are millions who are just as naive as you when it comes to the actual power and lack of scruples our government possesses. I can agree with this because i know there are millions that care more about facebook status, the last tweet, getting a picture of their most recent meal or alcoholic beverage posted somewhere on the web than ANYTHING ELSE IN THEIR LIVES. So yes, there are some very dim individuals out there with the same views as yours. And the more i think about it, with your high level of arrogance and ignorance, you do seem well equipped to be their spokesperson.

By the way, try comprehending what you read before responding. I didn't draw a line nor am i going to draw a line. What i said was i can recognize a line. Nor do i have a problem with anyone with an opinion different than mine. I welcome different opinions, having an open mind is the only way to broaden your own understanding.

PS, Blue Z4s are annoying and only Black Z4s are cool. (in case you didn't understand the above)

Seriously, we get that you trust the government with your privacy. Some of us don't, get over it.
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      09-06-2013, 09:49 PM   #95
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even if you trust the government with your privacy, you should still support those who don't. obviously government privacy intrusion doesn't matter to you so it wouldn't make a difference to you if it goes away, and then those who are concerned can be secure and happy. so in the end, people who trust the government aren't affected in any way, and those who value privacy and government transparency are content. EVERYONE WINS!

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      09-07-2013, 11:29 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Since your failed logic could be recognized by a 3rd grader, i'll keep this personal for you. My problem isn't with the millions of sheeple with views like minded to your own. It's with the one who thinks he's a bad ass for being the one with "no problems telling what the other millions think". Are you so arrogant that you actually believe you know what millions of people think? I will agree that there likely are millions who are just as naive as you when it comes to the actual power and lack of scruples our government possesses. I can agree with this because i know there are millions that care more about facebook status, the last tweet, getting a picture of their most recent meal or alcoholic beverage posted somewhere on the web than ANYTHING ELSE IN THEIR LIVES. So yes, there are some very dim individuals out there with the same views as yours. And the more i think about it, with your high level of arrogance and ignorance, you do seem well equipped to be their spokesperson.

By the way, try comprehending what you read before responding. I didn't draw a line nor am i going to draw a line. What i said was i can recognize a line. Nor do i have a problem with anyone with an opinion different than mine. I welcome different opinions, having an open mind is the only way to broaden your own understanding.

PS, Blue Z4s are annoying and only Black Z4s are cool. (in case you didn't understand the above)

Seriously, we get that you trust the government with your privacy. Some of us don't, get over it.
+1

Only the truly arrogant claim to know what millions of others are thinking.

Having no facts to back that claim makes it even more arrogant.

I don't have an issue with differing opinions. I tend to differ in my opinions from a lot of the people in this subsection. However, saying "I'm right and you are all wrong" and not providing any factual evidence just makes you look like an infant.

The fact is that the government already uses things to spy on its own people. The NSA has been using the internet to spy on Americans. My question is when are they going to take the next step? Your consent now is only allowing them to go deeper in the future.

One day, probably not in our lifetime, they will be telling your grandkids that they are allowing the government run health insurance company to install cameras in the home, to make sure they're not engaging in anything that would force them to have to spend more money they need to on healthcare. But oh, it's ok because we don't do anything unhealthy!

I live my life every day and enjoy it, but I worry most about our legacy and what we leave for the future of Americans. After all, once we're dead and in the ground, our legacy and what we leave behind is all that remains...
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