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      07-18-2013, 10:30 AM   #1
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Zimmerman Trial - What is wrong with the media

My opinion is as follows.

I think this entire situation has been blown WAYYYYY too far out of proportion. This race bullsh*t is completely ridiculous and has NOTHING to do with this case. Now, for serious questions:
1) Have you ever "felt" like you have been followed before????
2) Have you ever "felt" the need to follow someone because of suspicious activity in your neighborhood???

Now depending on your answers to these two questions you should be able to put yourself in the mindset of Martin and Zimmerman.

Question 1 answer: YES. I have felt like I have been followed before. Yes, it has made me nervous. But the average persons reaction is usually a heightened sense of awareness, NOT TO JUMP THE PERSON THAT YOU PRESUME IS FOLLOWING YOU. I do not feel that you have the right to start beating the hell out of someone that you "THINK" is following you. That is ridiculous. For example, lets say I walk to the grocery store. It's getting dark outside. Someone from around the block from me decided to do the same thing and take same route. If I am following them home because that is my route, does that give them the right to bash my head into the ground and break my nose. F*CK NO.

Next question.

Question 2 answer: YES. I have spotted suspicious people in my neighborhood. Do I call the cops on them, usually not. Do I keep an eye on them, always. If there are break in's in my neighborhood AND I spot a suspicious person (black hoodie with hood up, covering face in a neighborhood where almost everyone knows eachother, you don't find that suspicious, then you are not street smart), then I will be keeping my eye on them.

Now comes the next part of this predicament. If I feel the need to call the police, should I have listened to what they tell me, YES. However, if I do not follow their instructions, THAT IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW!!!

So what have we learned:
1) Should Zimmerman have called the police: yes, he has every right to.
2) Should Zimmerman have listened to the police: yes, but it is not breaking the law if he does not.
3) Should Martin have beaten the shit out of someone for following him: NO!!!!!! This was uncalled for, unjustified and thug like behavior. Come on people, Martin is not the 10 year old kid you see in the media pictures. When you watch the 7/11 footage, he is clearly well over 6 feet tall, probably between 175-185 pounds.

Now for the final question

4) Did Zimmerman have the right to defend himself: my opinion is yes. If i'm getting my ass kicked by some hooded dude that has broken my nose and is now bashing my head against the ground, I would do what I have to in order to defend myself. Lethal force was his only option and thats what he used.

In my opinion, the only thing Zimmerman is guilty of is being over confident for following Martin and a pussy for not being able to defend himself in a street fight. Other than that, Martin was in the wrong for attacking him.

The second side to this whole issue and the main reason for my post is about how the media handled the case as a whole. They depicted Zimmerman as a beefed up latin street fighter with a studded earing and an orange jump suite while Martin was depicted as a 10 year old boy. Such a load of sh*t!!! Martin towered over Zimmerman. He was younger, more athletic, broader shoulders, clearly stronger. Also, this has nothing to do with race. Killings like this happen daily and for those that live under a rock, read any media outlet for NYC or Chicago and you will have more than you would even want to know about. White on black, black on white, latin on black, latin on white, white on latin, black on latin, WHATEVER!!! It was a fight turned deadly. Happens all the time. Happened when I was in high school when a black kid beat the shit out of a white kid at my town fair in the mall parking lot. The kid was in critical condition for a couple of months. Def permanent damage. Was this turned into a national outrage, NOOO IT WAS NOT!!!

Sorry for long post but people need to stop being so critical and coming to conclusions based off of third party influences. Put yourself in both peoples shoes, see how you would have reacted and then come to a conclusion.



What I would like to see is your reactions to the media based on how they covered and presented this case to the public. Clearly I think it is despicable what they did and they should be the ones scrutinized.

Now, I understand racism is a ban but thats why I feel taht it is ok to discuss this issue. I do NOT believe that the actions of either individual were over race.
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      07-18-2013, 10:36 AM   #2
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I agree with everything you just said.
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      07-18-2013, 10:44 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
Now, I understand racism is a ban but thats why I feel taht it is ok to discuss this issue. I do NOT believe that the actions of either individual were over race.
Let's not kid ourselves. Yes, the media did blow it out of proportion but imagine if Martin were white. GZ would have escorted him home.
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      07-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #4
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I agree with everything you just said.
Thank you, glad i'm not alone.
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      07-18-2013, 10:49 AM   #5
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Let's not kid ourselves. Yes, the media did blow it out of proportion but imagine if Martin were white. GZ would have escorted him home.
GZ?

If Martin were white, then my point is that this would not have been an issue at all. The media twisted this whole story around to turn it into something that it is most def. not.
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      07-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #6
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GZ?

If Martin were white, then my point is that this would not have been an issue at all. The media twisted this whole story around to turn it into something that it is most def. not.
There's no denying GZ racially profiled TM. If TM were white, none of this would have happened. But since he's black, well then shit, he must be up to no good with a hoodie on.
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      07-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #7
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Question 1 answer: YES. I have felt like I have been followed before. Yes, it has made me nervous. But the average persons reaction is usually a heightened sense of awareness, NOT TO JUMP THE PERSON THAT YOU PRESUME IS FOLLOWING YOU. I do not feel that you have the right to start beating the hell out of someone that you "THINK" is following you. That is ridiculous. For example, lets say I walk to the grocery store. It's getting dark outside. Someone from around the block from me decided to do the same thing and take same route. If I am following them home because that is my route, does that give them the right to bash my head into the ground and break my nose. F*CK NO.
In this case, Zimmerman was following him. To counter your grocery store situation, take steps to confirm you're being followed vs just someone going the same way. Like turning, multiple direction changes, etc. The chances of someone doing the exact same thing is close to zero.

And since Zimmerman was following Martin, Zimmerman in Martin's eye was a threat to himself. He didn't know what Zimmerman was going to do. I personally would have called the police instead of jumping my stalker, but you can say what Martin did was in self-defense.

And yes I have been followed before in my car. I was driving behind a BMW going 5 below the limit who thought I was tailgating him. IMHO, I wasn't. I may have been close to him, but I didn't think I was tailgating. Anyway, he pulls over and lets me pass. So whatever..... He then blinds me while following me with his high beams. Turn left, he turns left. I already start to think he is following me. I turn left onto another street and accelerate hard to confirm what I think. He turns left and accelerates to keep up with me. Turn right, he turns right, etc. So I hit the Onstar button after confirming I am being followed to get the authorities over to me. While talking to the advisor we get to a stoplight and pulls next to me and basically with his 5-8 year old son in the passenger seat yelled at me for tailgating him and then peels off after telling him I called the cops.

I was just amazed he road raged with his son in the car. Overall, it was learning experience and have given more space to cars since.


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Question 2 answer: YES. I have spotted suspicious people in my neighborhood. Do I call the cops on them, usually not. Do I keep an eye on them, always. If there are break in's in my neighborhood AND I spot a suspicious person (black hoodie with hood up, covering face in a neighborhood where almost everyone knows eachother, you don't find that suspicious, then you are not street smart), then I will be keeping my eye on them.

Now comes the next part of this predicament. If I feel the need to call the police, should I have listened to what they tell me, YES. However, if I do not follow their instructions, THAT IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW!!!
Yes I would keep an eye on him. I may not call the cops just yet, but would keep an eye on him for as long as possible. May not follow him, but as long as the person is in my view from my property, will keep an eye on him.

While it isn't breaking the law to go against what the dispatcher says, still doesn't mean Zimmerman will escape criticism from it from the public since it lead to the situation.



Quote:
4) Did Zimmerman have the right to defend himself: my opinion is yes. If i'm getting my ass kicked by some hooded dude that has broken my nose and is now bashing my head against the ground, I would do what I have to in order to defend myself. Lethal force was his only option and thats what he used
Yes Zimmerman has the right to defend himself. But, a lot of people see him instigating the situation by following Martin. How can you claim self-defense when you instigated it.

Overall, both sides made mistakes. From Zimmerman's perspective he was just being a good citizen all of a sudden being jumped and attacked and defended himself. From Martin's perspective possibly( won't know since he's dead), he was defending himself from a stalker. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Martin and Martin shouldn't have jumped Zimmerman.
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      07-18-2013, 11:01 AM   #8
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There's no denying GZ racially profiled TM. If TM were white, none of this would have happened. But since he's black, well then shit, he must be up to no good with a hoodie on.
COmpletely disagree. When walking behind someone with a hoodie on and the hood up, how can you tell the color of their skin??? Every think of that scenario?
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      07-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #9
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Overall, both sides made mistakes. From Zimmerman's perspective he was just being a good citizen all of a sudden being jumped and attacked and defended himself. From Martin's perspective possibly( won't know since he's dead), he was defending himself from a stalker. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Martin and Martin shouldn't have jumped Zimmerman.
So your conclusion is that Zimmerman's initial action can be characterised as "follow" and Martin's initial recation can be characterised as "jumped".

I think the physical act of jumping someone is more of an instigator for the end result than following someone. Just my .02 though.
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      07-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #10
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So your conclusion is that Zimmerman's initial action can be characterised as "follow" and Martin's initial recation can be characterised as "jumped".

I think the physical act of jumping someone is more of an instigator for the end result than following someone. Just my .02 though.
It all depends. I may have called the police, but if I felt they weren't going to make it before my follower was going to do something to me, I would probably attack first as well.

Like I said, both sides made mistakes. It's just sad that it ended the way it did. I'm not outraged as others are about the non-guilty verdict. It definitely wasn't 2nd degree murder. If it was anything, it was manslaughter. But, I don't think there was enough evidence to prove that either. Since there wasn't more witnesses or evidence, I would probably vote not guilty as well. I just hope Zimmerman learned something from this.
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      07-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #11
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It all depends. I may have called the police, but if I felt they weren't going to make it before my follower was going to do something to me, I would probably attack first as well.

Like I said, both sides made mistakes. It's just sad that it ended the way it did. I'm not outraged as others are about the non-guilty verdict. It definitely wasn't 2nd degree murder. If it was anything, it was manslaughter. But, I don't think there was enough evidence to prove that either. Since there wasn't more witnesses or evidence, I would probably vote not guilty as well. I just hope Zimmerman learned something from this.
Completely agree with you.

But the original topic that I wanted to discuss, and I am curious about you opinion on, is what you think about the media. I think between how the media portrayed this case along with the Boston Bomber on the front page of Rolling Stone magazine and a man about to be hit by a NYC subway train on the front page of the NY Post says something about the media now a days.

What ever happened to a news organization that gave you information that is NOT biased while at the same time is compassionate to the families that are affected by all of these tragic events???

Last edited by pgviper; 07-18-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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      07-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #12
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So your conclusion is that Zimmerman's initial action can be characterised as "follow" and Martin's initial recation can be characterised as "jumped".

I think the physical act of jumping someone is more of an instigator for the end result than following someone. Just my .02 though.
It's quite simple really. Following someone is not illegal, jumping someone is.
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      07-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #13
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Completely agree with you.

But the original topic that I wanted to discuss, and I am curious about you opinion on, is what you think about the media. I think between how the media portrayed this case, to the Boston Bomber being on the front page of Rolling stone to the picture of a man about to be hit by a NYC subway on the front of the NY Post says something about the media now a days.

What ever happened to a news organization that gave you information that is NOT biased while at the same time is compassionate to the families that are affected by all of these tragic events???
It was disgusting. It's almost funny how it became a left vs right issue. Fox News was rushing to defend Zimmerman without knowing much and CNN, MSNBC, etc rushed to call Zimmerman evil. Overall, the media is a joke today. People will defend Fox News because their views match theirs. Same with CNN, MSNBC, etc. All of the US media sucks. IMHO, CNN is the best of the crap. It's a toss up between Fox News and MSNBC of who is the worst of the crap since MSNBC pretty much is copying Fox News business model, but doing it for the left instead of the right. But, they are all crap for the most part.

And everyone discussing it from other forums I visit was the same. People who leaned right defended Zimmerman and people who leaned left crucified him.
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      07-18-2013, 11:32 AM   #14
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I tend to be a social lefty and definitely side with Zimmerman. I also read CNN but only the web and nothing with opinion.
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      07-18-2013, 11:38 AM   #15
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I believe GZ was the neighborhood watch coordinator for the community. The neighborhood watch program was created the year before due to several burglaries and thefts in the neighborhood in the previous year. If so, it's actually quite reasonable to expect that GQ would follow TM (and one might go as far as to say that GZ was required to follow TM per his duties). I fully believe if TM was white (but still wearing a hoodie and walking in the manner TM was walking), GZ would still have followed TM.
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      07-18-2013, 11:52 AM   #16
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I believe GZ was the neighborhood watch coordinator for the community. The neighborhood watch program was created the year before due to several burglaries and thefts in the neighborhood in the previous year. If so, it's actually quite reasonable to expect that GQ would follow TM (and one might go as far as to say that GZ was required to follow TM per his duties). I fully believe if TM was white (but still wearing a hoodie and walking in the manner TM was walking), GZ would still have followed TM.
Also, there were over 400 9-1-1 calls made from their neighborhood and TM was milling around the area where the break-ins most commonly occurred. The crime index for Sanford as a whole is 4... with 100 being the safest. That means Sanford Florida has more crime than 96% of the rest of the country.
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      07-18-2013, 01:50 PM   #17
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What is wrong with the media? I suppose you could say nothing; they are doing exactly what we are giving them an incentive to do.

Media outlets are for-profit entities. Just as a widget vendor will do whatever it can to sell the most widgets, a media outlet will do whatever it can to maximize it's revenue too.

If the general public was truly outraged, and actually refused to consume "news" from any outlet that sensationalized their content, and only partronized those who presented data in the least inflammatory way, without any bias, then guess what, news coverage would change pretty damn fast.

I was in line at the supermarket, and the lady in front took the People magazine, flipped thru it, made some comment to her friend about why cant the paparazzi cant leave James Gandolfini's family to mourn in peace, and then put that magazine with the rest of her groceries and bought it! Apparently she was too dumb to realize she was fueling the very thing she claimed to despise.
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      07-18-2013, 03:10 PM   #18
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In this case, Zimmerman was following him. To counter your grocery store situation, take steps to confirm you're being followed vs just someone going the same way. Like turning, multiple direction changes, etc. The chances of someone doing the exact same thing is close to zero.

And since Zimmerman was following Martin, Zimmerman in Martin's eye was a threat to himself. He didn't know what Zimmerman was going to do. I personally would have called the police instead of jumping my stalker, but you can say what Martin did was in self-defense.

And yes I have been followed before in my car. I was driving behind a BMW going 5 below the limit who thought I was tailgating him. IMHO, I wasn't. I may have been close to him, but I didn't think I was tailgating. Anyway, he pulls over and lets me pass. So whatever..... He then blinds me while following me with his high beams. Turn left, he turns left. I already start to think he is following me. I turn left onto another street and accelerate hard to confirm what I think. He turns left and accelerates to keep up with me. Turn right, he turns right, etc. So I hit the Onstar button after confirming I am being followed to get the authorities over to me. While talking to the advisor we get to a stoplight and pulls next to me and basically with his 5-8 year old son in the passenger seat yelled at me for tailgating him and then peels off after telling him I called the cops.

Yes Zimmerman has the right to defend himself. But, a lot of people see him instigating the situation by following Martin. How can you claim self-defense when you instigated it.

Overall, both sides made mistakes. From Zimmerman's perspective he was just being a good citizen all of a sudden being jumped and attacked and defended himself. From Martin's perspective possibly( won't know since he's dead), he was defending himself from a stalker. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Martin and Martin shouldn't have jumped Zimmerman.
I was followed in my car one time too. Like you i accelerated hard a few places to verify that they were following me. Once i realized they were, i hit the throttle and started maneuvering to get away from them. My first instinct was not to stop and confront them. If i were on foot (in TM's situation) and had no ill intentions, after verifying that i was being followed, i would walk straight up to a random house with the lights on and knock on the door and ask to call the police. If it were late and all lights were off i would do the same but bang on the door yelling for help loudly.

To the bolded statement; You are responsible for your actions. GZ could have been following him and slinging racial, fat mama, small dick slurs at him the whole time. That does NOT justify any physical action by TM. People think their pride is justifiably defended with physical reactions. IT IS NOT. Be responsible for your actions. By this logic i could be minding my own business walking down the street and if someone is "instigating" something with me i have the right to reverse my direction of travel and confront them physically. AND because they instigated their own beating, they subsequently lose their right to defend themselves.

Bottom line is that GZ was within his rights and justified in following anyone in a high crime neighborhood when he was neighborhood watch coordinator. If testimony is true, TM had no right and could not justify starting a physical altercation with GZ. Of course that is what many have issue with, the fact that TM can't testify.

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What is wrong with the media? I suppose you could say nothing; they are doing exactly what we are giving them an incentive to do.

Media outlets are for-profit entities. Just as a widget vendor will do whatever it can to sell the most widgets, a media outlet will do whatever it can to maximize it's revenue too.

If the general public was truly outraged, and actually refused to consume "news" from any outlet that sensationalized their content, and only partronized those who presented data in the least inflammatory way, without any bias, then guess what, news coverage would change pretty damn fast.

I was in line at the supermarket, and the lady in front took the People magazine, flipped thru it, made some comment to her friend about why cant the paparazzi cant leave James Gandolfini's family to mourn in peace, and then put that magazine with the rest of her groceries and bought it! Apparently she was too dumb to realize she was fueling the very thing she claimed to despise.
Too true!!

People have forgotten about the boycott! Boycotts get shit done! But it also gets in the way of people's convenient way of life.....
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      07-18-2013, 03:14 PM   #19
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I was followed in my car one time too. Like you i accelerated hard a few places to verify that they were following me. Once i realized they were, i hit the throttle and started maneuvering to get away from them. My first instinct was not to stop and confront them. If i were on foot (in TM's situation) and had no ill intentions, after verifying that i was being followed, i would walk straight up to a random house with the lights on and knock on the door and ask to call the police. If it were late and all lights were off i would do the same but bang on the door yelling for help loudly.

To the bolded statement; You are responsible for your actions. GZ could have been following him and slinging racial, fat mama, small dick slurs at him the whole time. That does NOT justify any physical action by TM. People think their pride is justifiably defended with physical reactions. IT IS NOT. Be responsible for your actions. By this logic i could be minding my own business walking down the street and if someone is "instigating" something with me i have the right to reverse my direction of travel and confront them physically. AND because they instigated their own beating, they subsequently lose their right to defend themselves.

Bottom line is that GZ was within his rights and justified in following anyone in a high crime neighborhood when he was neighborhood watch coordinator. If testimony is true, TM had no right and could not justify starting a physical altercation with GZ. Of course that is what many have issue with, the fact that TM can't testify.
Agreed. Very well put.
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      07-18-2013, 08:14 PM   #20
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Ok let's put race totally out of this

Zimmerman saw someone that looked suspicious
Called 911, spoke to them a bit, till the dispatcher told him NOT to continue to follow the suspect.
Zimmerman replied "these assholes, they always get away" and continued to follow the suspect
Meaning he had already made up his mind that this person was guilty, and I am sure the fact that he had a gun gave him the balls to initiate a confrontation.
So a fight broke out, and the 17 year old was kicking the 29 year olds ass
So he pulled out his gun and shot him

2 things
Why did Zimmerman call 911 if was going to ignore their advice and take matters into his own hands?
And If you approach someone, how does that count as "stand your ground"?
Stand your ground means someone comes at you, and you decide you will not back down, and stand your ground. How can the initiator use the stand your ground?
Is "stand your ground" an attacking maneuver? Or a defensive one?

I still wonder if during the fight, trayvon had killed Zimmerman
Could he have pulled off that "stand your ground" defense?
And if Zimmerman had killed trayvon with a knife, instead of a gun, would be have still gotten the innocent ruling?
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      07-18-2013, 08:18 PM   #21
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Stand your ground was not used in the trial.
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      07-18-2013, 08:23 PM   #22
Mr Tonka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Ok let's put race totally out of this

Zimmerman saw someone that looked suspicious
Called 911, spoke to them a bit, till the dispatcher told him NOT to continue to follow the suspect.
Zimmerman replied "these assholes, they always get away" and continued to follow the suspect

Meaning he had already made up his mind that this person was guilty, and I am sure the fact that he had a gun gave him the balls to initiate a confrontation.
So a fight broke out, and the 17 year old was kicking the 29 year olds ass
So he pulled out his gun and shot him

2 things
Why did Zimmerman call 911 if was going to ignore their advice and take matters into his own hands?
And If you approach someone, how does that count as "stand your ground"?
Stand your ground means someone comes at you, and you decide you will not back down, and stand your ground. How can the initiator use the stand your ground?
Is "stand your ground" an attacking maneuver? Or a defensive one?

I still wonder if during the fight, trayvon had killed Zimmerman
Could he have pulled off that "stand your ground" defense?
And if Zimmerman had killed trayvon with a knife, instead of a gun, would be have still gotten the innocent ruling?
Bold is where your opinion starts which discounts the rest of the post as it's based on your assumption of what happened and what GZ was thinking.
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