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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335d PCV Catch Can Question



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      02-10-2014, 06:58 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Here are a couple pics and measurements of that small hose. 2nd pic is OD. 3rd pic is ID.
Thanks Mark.
I guess the total length if the rubber section wasn't flexed would be 4.25".
Inner diameter looks to be exactly 1".

Let's see what I can make.
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      02-10-2014, 07:49 AM   #332
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I measured the inner diameter to be ~7/8" However note that the actual hose ID is smaller when not at the fitting points (the ribbed section). I'm guessing only 5/8 or 3/4.
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      02-18-2014, 07:21 AM   #333
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I want to thank Tdi 335dwagon and the rest of you guys for this informative Catch can issue and how you guys have come to do Various variants to make the catch can work but Im still lost LOL
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      02-18-2014, 11:47 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
I want to thank Tdi 335dwagon and the rest of you guys for this informative Catch can issue and how you guys have come to do Various variants to make the catch can work but Im still lost LOL
I'm with you PR. If I end up going off warranty and keeping the car, and if I end up living in a state where it doesn't matter, I would like to do these various mods, but I'll have to find someone who can do it for me, and that potential indy person will need to have some specs.

Otherwise I will buy some replacement vehicle and live with the memories of a great 335d ride while it lasted. Potential replacement vehicles for me would be a GTD or a new WRX.
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      02-18-2014, 01:24 PM   #335
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Sorry if this has already been covered but I assume installing a catch-can will invalidate my warranty. True?
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      02-18-2014, 02:55 PM   #336
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Not official BMW policy:
My opinion. It would seem that this is an obvious improvement to their design. If one does this and shows that oil is being collected and therefore not allowed to be put into intake, it morally shouldn't cancel warranty.
Now if too big of a restriction is added and the engine starts leaking at the seals, BMW would be correct to cancel warranty.
I have spoke with service advisor before concerning mods. She said the mod could only possibly compromise warranty concerning things related to that area.
So if you mess with crankcase ventilation and your transmission has issues, I argue the two have no relationship and trans repairs should be covered. If you start leaking at seals or something happens in turbo system, they will point to the mod. We are taking some risk for the gray areas not too distant from CCV system.
I think the risk is far out weighed by cleaning up the contaminant from intake. My 2 cents
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      02-19-2014, 07:55 PM   #337
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Well, bought one of those BMS type catch cans. It showed up and I was playing around with some options for really short routing locations on the passenger side.

The one option I discussed earlier where I was going to use the Euro version altered vent pipe wouldn't work due to the In/Out of the catch can being the exact opposite orientation as was needed. However, this location looks like it might work with a similar approach Mark M used where he didn't cut the OEM vent pipe.

As placed in the photo I'm able to use the N55 mounting bracket with some slight modifications to the hole sizes, and a spacer between the bracket and the can. The spacer is going to be needed to keep any low points in the tubing from the OEM connector to the catch can input so no liquid can pool in that area and freeze/plug/restrict ventilation. It also looks like it will fit in there with some margin with the AEM air filter mod I did earlier. The underhood temp probing I've taken shows slightly above ambient temps in this location. I can also possibly rotate the can further to be closer to the turbo sections in the winter for some extra warmth to prevent freezing.

Hope to finish the install this weekend.
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Last edited by TDIwyse; 02-20-2014 at 10:29 PM. Reason: small pic edit
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      02-20-2014, 07:41 AM   #338
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I like that set up TDi I might go that way please make sure we make this proposition of installation viable for everyone, Gracias amigo

PD Can you make a video of this it would be better
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      02-20-2014, 07:46 PM   #339
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A bit more progress. First off, I know the tubing I'm using isn't a long term solution due to oil degradation... but I'm doing this to prototype how much of the BMS catch can proper tubing I actually need, as it will need to be cut. And also, since it's clear, I want to see the pre/post catch can lines to get a visual on whether or not the catch can is working well to remove oil vapor.

I pulled the first OEM 90 deg elbow off and routed directly to the catch can input. It has a continuous slope the whole way so no pooling will occur and is nice and short with a gentle slow curvature with 3/4 I.D. tubing. Also, no cutting of the OEM pipe is needed, and all the OEM stuff could be returned to stock.

The output of the catch can has a postive slope up to the 90 deg angle bend where it then transitions to a negative slope down to the OEM intake section. Again, no low points so no pooling can occur, and the length is nice and short.

Since the OEM top 90 deg is pulled where the OBD connection check is located, and as Mark M pointed out earlier is just a "short", I've added a "splice" across the unused OEM 90 section to fullfill the OBD check.

The AEM air filter setup also fits in there with this setup.

We're having another blizzard and will likely have to wait a day or two to check the operation of the car with this setup. Will update more later.
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Last edited by TDIwyse; 02-20-2014 at 08:36 PM.
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      02-20-2014, 08:38 PM   #340
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And with the air filter and engine cover on. I'll have to fashion a new cold air box for the intake now...
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      02-20-2014, 09:36 PM   #341
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Nice work TDI. I like the clear hose as a test idea. Will be curious what you find. When winter lets up on your area let us know if this mod has any affect on the water gauge.

I like your close proximity setup. However for me I am reluctant to part with the OE air box. Winter has been a bear here too, I've only got about 170 miles on my catch can so far. With this crazy winter I'm glad to have Blizzaks and an 05 X3 as a winter commuter.
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      02-20-2014, 10:22 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Nice work TDI. I like the clear hose as a test idea. Will be curious what you find. When winter lets up on your area let us know if this mod has any affect on the water gauge.

I like your close proximity setup. However for me I am reluctant to part with the OE air box. Winter has been a bear here too, I've only got about 170 miles on my catch can so far. With this crazy winter I'm glad to have Blizzaks and an 05 X3 as a winter commuter.
Thanks.

I understand about the OE airbox part. It's pretty tight even with the mods I made to get the AEM filter in that way.
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      02-21-2014, 08:06 AM   #343
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Yes amigo Tdi the space is tight the cone filter can be NO LONGER than 6" otherwise it will scratch the paint like my AMSOIL dry filter did
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      02-21-2014, 09:44 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
When winter lets up on your area let us know if this mod has any affect on the water gauge.
Did a test run late this afternoon. I checked the vacuum at cold startup and with a slightly increased idle rpm. Looks about the same as before, however my blue fluid spilled out at some point when the manometer tipped over out in the garage ... so I rinsed and filled it with water. Not sure if the different density of fluids has any impact on the readings, but the cold idle vacuum seems the same. The sum up is the car still pulls vacuum at idle and it increases with rpm as before.

The test drive went well and no codes, so just shorting out that top OEM 90 deg connection seems to be an OK approach.

Also, I was able to take out the spacer and just connect the can to the brace and it was still placed properly to force a continuous slope from the OEM vent tube to the catch can input.
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      02-23-2014, 06:43 PM   #345
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Here is a look inside my BMS can after about 250 miles. A small amount but I can imagine what it will look like after 5000 miles.
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      02-23-2014, 07:38 PM   #346
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Thanks for that Mark. I checked my can yesterday after about 50 miles. Wiped it out with a white paper towel. It's collecting "something". Will be interesting to see if any differences in the input/output clear tubing buildup occurs over the next month.
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      02-24-2014, 06:30 PM   #347
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It was a bit on the cold side today. ~0F in the morning and a "high" of 18F. After being home for an hour I went out and checked the clear tubing and this is what I saw after a day of commutting in the cold.

The in/out tubing still has condensing liquid attached to the tubing walls.

The risk of pooling/freezing in the lines is no joke. It would be in your engines best interest to make sure you crankcase vent lines don't have any low spots where liquid could pool/freeze and mess things up...
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      02-25-2014, 07:27 AM   #348
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TDi thats the same hose I used to hv on my 02 MCS, eventually they will crack specially with the heat our DIESELS generate, whenever you can give us a video of everything ok gracias
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      02-25-2014, 08:04 AM   #349
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Thanks for the info TDI, that is a considerable amount of condensation.

Would you surmise that the condensation becomes a freeze risk when the engine is no longer running and vapor flow is no longer occurring? Or would you say it is a risk even with the engine running and vapors creating flow through the hoses?

Axel, believe TDI had indicated the clear hoses are only temporary as he is using them for initial testing / observation.
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      02-25-2014, 09:24 AM   #350
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oh ok cause the ones I had dry rotted within time
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      02-25-2014, 10:11 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Thanks for the info TDI, that is a considerable amount of condensation.

Would you surmise that the condensation becomes a freeze risk when the engine is no longer running and vapor flow is no longer occurring? Or would you say it is a risk even with the engine running and vapors creating flow through the hoses?
Not for sure yet. I'm going to do some more observation regarding this behavior. No matter when or why, if it's sitting in the tube like that and you're parked outside in severe cold weather ... could be bad news.

Interestingly, I didn't see any condensation issue on the first several days, but the temps were much warmer.
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      02-25-2014, 05:18 PM   #352
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Was even colder today. Below 0F in the morning commute and sat outside where the high was 7F. Got home and snapped this pic right after shutting off the car. The condensation is definitely happening during driving conditions, which makes sense since water is a byproduct of combustion.

When looking closely it's obvious that the tubing isn't plugged (although the pic kinda makes it look that way) but I could see how freezing layers of moisture could build up in cold weather and eventually cause a problem. Glad I can park it in an attached garage that stays above freezing.

After seeing the condensation yesterday, I wrapped some pipe insulation around the clear vent tubes. Also have a temperature probe taped to the catch can at the closest point to the engine/exhaust. With the 7F ambient temps on the drive home the probe was measuring ~20F while cruising. It was about the same this morning with -5F temps. At low speeds the temp rises quite a bit. This is with the front kidney grill openings 100% blocked.

Think I'm going to wrap some insulation around the can section too as tomorrow is supposed to be even colder. I wish you Canadians would keep your cold weather to yourselves.
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