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      07-25-2013, 03:28 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acewiza View Post
If you can't figure out how to work around an emissions mil on the crankacse breather without assuming your snarky little "know-it-all" attitudes, I'm not gonna help you.
I assume you have figured it out already to be not helping, or just not helping because youve nothing to help with?

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Originally Posted by acewiza View Post
So did you recently change your mind, or just assuming the role of TDIwyse' sycophant now?
yes, research led to it. Start with the easiest option and work your way down. Ideally blocking the EGR and venting the CCV to atmosphere would be the easiest since it would only require a vent line and unplugging the EGR.
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      07-25-2013, 07:20 PM   #68
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This subforum is becoming much less fun of late...mostly thanks to the anti-constructive efforts of a few.

TDIwyse, I pulled my charge pipe and took some pics incl. what I could get of the EGR...will post when I have the opportunity. For now, I will say that I expected the carbon on the EGR, but not oil up to and beyond the throttle body...prevent is looking quite nice.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your setup 335dwagon!
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      07-25-2013, 07:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Well, BMW calls it a "crankcase breather". And the connection to the intake is called the "blow by pipe". Either way it's routing the positive pressurized crankcase fumes back into the intake. See page 24 for some details.

http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/lib...erformance.pdf

If you think its redundant and not needed then you are welcome to not participate in the thread.
Ok TDI, I have looked at page 24, and page 25. If I understand what I am looking at, the Crankcase breather pulls a vacuum on the head cover based on the venturi created by the airflow generated by the airflow which is determined by the load and rpm. When the gases/ oil mist is pulled into the stream, the oil can get onto the turbo compressor and then pool into the intercooler. So I guess one could say that we have a PCV catch can if you frequently empty out the intercooler of the oil.

Not sure about the purpose of the heater except it may be there because of us Canucks living in the cold, but I doubt it is there to vaporize the oil mist.

Question is that with the available vacuum how difficult will it be to get a catch can that will work without screwing up the original design pressure drop. That section of plastic tubing looks to be quite short.
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      07-25-2013, 08:06 PM   #70
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I wonder why BMS did not design one for the M57? Technical reasons?
It would be a good seller...
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      07-25-2013, 08:10 PM   #71
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I wonder why BMS did not design one for the M57? Technical reasons?
It would be a good seller...
Likely not a simple install/design (hose only) and not enough of a market share to justify R&D.
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      07-25-2013, 08:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
TDIwyse, I pulled my charge pipe and took some pics incl. what I could get of the EGR...will post when I have the opportunity. For now, I will say that I expected the carbon on the EGR, but not oil up to and beyond the throttle body...prevent is looking quite nice.
How do your findings compare with the pictures I posted here? http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=702785&page=2

Hopefully don't get in trouble for linking to another forum...
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      07-25-2013, 09:46 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
How do your findings compare with the pictures I posted here? http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=702785&page=2

Hopefully don't get in trouble for linking to another forum...
Good question. I haven't had the chance to pull it yet, just inspected. I will have to take her apart this weekend and get back to you.
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      07-25-2013, 10:01 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
I wonder why BMS did not design one for the M57? Technical reasons?
It would be a good seller...
Emailed him yesterday:

Quote:
"Do you have an oil catch can or plans to make one for the BMW 335d?

Thanks,
John."
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"We dont at this time. Sorry."

www.burgertuning.com
Sent via a not very smart phone

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      07-26-2013, 07:11 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
This subforum is becoming much less fun of late...mostly thanks to the anti-constructive efforts of a few.

TDIwyse, I pulled my charge pipe and took some pics incl. what I could get of the EGR...will post when I have the opportunity. For now, I will say that I expected the carbon on the EGR, but not oil up to and beyond the throttle body...prevent is looking quite nice.
Yup. But I'm glad to see the exchange of ideas didn't get shut down. Hopefully we can all help each other in this effort while being civil.
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      07-26-2013, 07:15 AM   #76
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1st Response from Wyatt from Arrington performance:

Axel,



Thanks for your interest in Arrington Performance.



As far as the BMW diesel I am not sure if they diesel applications use the same pcv venting systems. We focus mostly within the late model hemi applications. However our catch can has been used on other vehicles that the users have retrofitted them to work. Itís pretty universal if you can get your mounting down and trimming the hose length to fit but am not sure on your BMW diesel application.







Thanks,






Wyatt

Technical Sales

Arrington Performance

phone: 866.844.1245 ext: 3-121

Fax: 276.666.6794

email: jon.wyatt@shophemi.com
website: www.shopHEMI.com

2nd Response from Him:

Sounds good, they are pretty well universal if you can find the line length and routing.





Thanks!








Wyatt

Technical Sales
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      07-26-2013, 07:28 AM   #77
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Quote:
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Yup. But I'm glad to see the exchange of ideas didn't get shut down. Hopefully we can all help each other in this effort while being civil.
Indeed. Definitely agreed there.
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      07-26-2013, 07:31 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
...So I guess one could say that we have a PCV catch can if you frequently empty out the intercooler of the oil.

Not sure about the purpose of the heater except it may be there because of us Canucks living in the cold, but I doubt it is there to vaporize the oil mist.

Question is that with the available vacuum how difficult will it be to get a catch can that will work without screwing up the original design pressure drop. That section of plastic tubing looks to be quite short.
Unfortunately the oil mist doesn't all stay in the intercooler. There's enough of it that gets all the way up into the intake on the other side of the intercooler. At least on my car and on the pictures posted by others. I haven't seen any pics of the intake that doesn't have the oil film.

I believe you are correct on the heater. The TDI guys have reported issues with catch cans (and their stock intercoolers) freezing up due moisture content in the blow by gases. Think this is part of the reason the 335d stock crankcase vent pipe is ran along the top of the engine like it is ... to keep it warm.

The flow rating on the "catch can" and its piping should be choosen such that it will be low enough to allow the proper amount of blow by to pass without causing excess restriction. Otherwise excess pressure buildup in the crankcase can occur which is not a good thing. That's why I'd be a little concerned with just using the 335i setups as I haven't seen flow data on them.

Regarding trying to vent it to the atmosphere ... if the engine is designed for that then that would be fine. My 2004 Cummins Ram and the Cummins B3.3T I repowered my old Jeep Wrangler with do this. But if the crankcase venting was designed such that it relies on vacuum from the intake to help pull crankcase gases out ... I'd be cautious of damaging the internals of the engine without seeing hard data on the effectiveness of this approach. It might work great, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

Also, the 1/4 mile track I've been to specifically require you not to have the crankcase vented to atmosphere due to safety issues with the blow by oil getting on the track surface.
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      08-02-2013, 09:42 AM   #79
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Reason for heating the blow by gasses:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4768493
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      08-02-2013, 10:08 AM   #80
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Spoke to Turbo Eddie he will try to get into our site this weekend and become another promising informative person, and as to a future build on a catch can, woohoo!!!
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      08-02-2013, 04:43 PM   #81
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Thought the following might help the discussion a little bit. All of this is taken from "BMW Advanced Diesel Technology" dated September 2008.


Quote:
Crankcase Vent
The crankcase vent in the US version is heated. In addition, the
operation of the crankcase breather is OBD monitored. This is
because a leaking system would increase unwanted emissions.
The only probable reason for a leak in the system would be that the
blow-by pipe is not connected to the cylinder head cover. In order
to facilitate protection of this situation by the OBD, the heating line
is routed via a connector to the cylinder head cover (2).
Essentially, this connector serves only as a bridge so that actuation
of the heating system is looped through. The plug connection is
designed in such a way that correct contact is made only when the
blow-by pipe has been connected correctly to the cylinder head
cover, i.e. the contact for the heating system is not closed if the
blow-by pipe is not connected to the cylinder head cover. The
OBD system recognizes this situation as a fault.
Note: If the blow-by pipe is not connected to the cylinder
head correctly, the OBD will activate theMIL
(Malfunction Indicator Lamp).
Note:
When making repairs which concern malfunctions of the
crankcase ventilation system. Or, if any repairs are made to a
turbocharger which has leaked oil into the engine, be sure to
remove any residual oil in the intake air system.
Failure to do so may result in an engine over-rev situation
causing irreparable engine damage. In this case, the warranty
may be affected.

High Pressure EGR Valve
Compared to the European version, the high pressure EGR is
equipped with the following special features:
• Electric EGR valve with positional feedback
• Temperature sensor before high pressure EGR valve
• EGR cooler with bypass.
The electric actuating system of the EGR valve enables exact
metering of the recirculated exhaust gas quantity. In addition, this
quantity is no longer calculated based solely on the signals from
the hot-film air mass meter and oxygen sensor but the following
signals are also used:
• Travel of high pressure EGR valve
• Temperature before high pressure EGR valve
• Pressure difference between exhaust gas pressure in the
exhaust manifold and boost pressure in the intake manifold.
This enables even more exact control of the EGR rate.
The EGR cooler serves the purpose of increasing the efficiency of
the EGR system. However, reaching the operating temperature as
fast as possible has priority at low engine temperatures.
In this case, the EGR cooler can be bypassed in order to heat up
the combustion chamber faster. For this purpose, there is a bypass
that diverts the flow of the exhaust around the EGR cooler.
This bypass is actuated by a flap which, in turn, is operated by a
vacuum unit. The bypass is either only in the "Open" or "Closed"
position.
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      08-02-2013, 05:37 PM   #82
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Quote:
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Thought the following might help the discussion a little bit. All of this is taken from "BMW Advanced Diesel Technology" dated September 2008.
Very cool stuff.
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      08-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #83
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Duh! What did I miss George? Seems like our cars are anti hacking!!!!
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      08-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
I know exactly how much boost the car is making.
Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem too - that's not what I asked.
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Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
But in general for a 3 liter diesel running 3068 mbar absolute (subtract 1bar for normal atmospheric pressure -> 30 psi) the engine will likely be moving ~3-5 cubic feet per minute through that blow by pipe. When not into the boost the volume will be much smaller.
If you ever get around to pulling the bragging track times head out of your butt and un-obfuscating these numbers you bandy about you might want to confirm by WAG on the breather pressure.
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Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
If you had bothered to read the technical presentation from BMW on the crankcase breather you would have noticed that on the US model it is monitored.
If you had bother paying attention and did not suffer the apparent reading comprehension problem I mentioned above, you would not have an issue with this. But anyways...

Good luck with your "diesel catch can!"
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      08-05-2013, 08:58 PM   #85
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
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      08-05-2013, 09:17 PM   #86
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So, I'm back from vacation. Did a little playing around tonight. Unfortunately one of the pieces I ordered (the OEM breather tube) didn't show up. The email I read yesterday from mid-week from Turner said they couldn't get it ... that was too bad.

The space is tight in the area close to the breather tube and intake connection. Here's what I did as an experiment to see what kind of space could be created.

Removed stock intake air box. That freed up a lot of space. Much more than one full sized bottle of Jack.

Then put in an AEM dry element cone filter (I don't like oiled filters). Leaves enough space for the provent. Weighed the stock vs the AEM/provent combo and the stock system is more than 1 lb heavier. So at least this won't add weight.

I was concerned about increased intake air temps so I did some BT data logging tonight over the same interstate loop I had previously done a few weeks ago. Tonight was 77F (~25C) and previous data was 73F (~23C). At speed there was no measurable difference above the ambient temperature differences. And this is without a heat shield, just the cone filter.

Also did a couple full throttle pulls in 3rd gear and the Torque App HP/TQ numbers are right in line with stock intake numbers, so no statistically significant differences observed.

So, it appears this might be a viable avenue to pursue in terms of having space to install a way to prevent the oil getting back into the intercooler/intake without increasing emissions of the vehicle. At least for those interested in installing some such device. Which is the reason for the thread ...
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      08-06-2013, 05:45 AM   #87
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so youre saying TDi that having a cone filter w/o cover really doesnt affect performance. interesting cause i had used a dry cone filter, AMSOIL BTW, and the car responded very welll but I was concerned that due to the engine being closed up it would alternatively affect car performance. BTW give the SN for that cone filter AMSOIL's cone filter is to long for the space we have.
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      08-06-2013, 07:39 AM   #88
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so youre saying TDi that having a cone filter w/o cover really doesnt affect performance.
That's what the measurable data is showing.

I did leave part of the air ducting in place (the ducting above the radiator which pushes air towards that front passanger section). I also have a thermometer probe placed by the filter and it shows ambient air temps flowing into that section. If I move the probe to the back of the filter, closer to the turbo's, the temp is above ambient. But there's so much air flowing in at speed that the air temp measured after the intercooler isn't any higher than with the stock setup.

When you are idling at a stop, the IAT's do increase. But it did this with the stock setup as well (it's sucking air from right above the radiator which is very hot).
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