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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > BMW Considering Among 4-6 Concepts Based on BMW-Toyota Joint Sports Car



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      07-23-2013, 09:06 PM   #23
tony20009
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I don't care how many they talk about so long as they ultimately end up producing something worthy of the 3er legacy and reasonably priced. The stuff BMW is producing alone and calling it a 3/4, while able, just doesn't deliver the whole package. The upcoming 2er seems like it'll be just a tad too small to cover DD duty as well as the E46/E90 and the 5er is clearly too big and too expensive for most folks.

Personally, I don't think the world needs yet another supercar, even if having one might be good for BMW's image, although it's debatable how much image boosting a joint venture car is going to do. Toyota have the LFA, so they don't need another one. And just what would a BMW/Toyota supercar do that all the others don't, for all intents and purposes, do just as well? And how different could it look? After you get past the 911, they're all wedges of one form or another.

They might come out with something that straddles the line between supercar and very upscale car like the 911, and I could see some use for both companies in having a car such as that for there isn't really any direct competitor that can hold a candle to the 911 at the middle to lower end of its range, save perhaps the Nissan GT-whatever it is and a Corvette (?). (At the top end, of course there are plenty.) But then even at the low end of the 911 range, though many may want one, most people can't afford it. Even so, if BMW end up making the 2er a genuine carrier of the traditional 3er flame, this 911-contender seems like a plausible approach for MB and Audi don't play there and Toyota probably wouldn't mind putting something up directly opposite that Nissan GTR (?).

Lastly, as a slightly different approach to the same basic theme of sportscars, I could see the two companies delivering something that plays in the Mitsu EVO/Subaru BRZ/Nissan Z-Coupe space. (Is that the right name? Subaru BRZ?) Entering that market, however, would call for the car to be something a BMW M-car isn't, particularly an M2, which potentially could play in that same arena if the price can be kept at or below $50K.
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      07-23-2013, 09:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I've been in many Lexus and I've been far more impressed with the quality, especially the interior. I checked out the IS350 before looking at the E90 330i and the interior of the Lexus was miles ahead in almost every way but the lack of a clutch pedal was the only reason I didn't get it.
have a look under that fancy perception. You will be disappointed ...
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      07-23-2013, 09:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
have a look under that fancy perception. You will be disappointed ...
Care to elaborate? All I did was compare my E90's shitty interior to the IS350's. I don't exactly see what "fancy perception" I could have when I'm just comparing my own personal experience and not pulling things out of my ass. The only thing I have been "disappointed" in is BMW. After being brought up by a loyal BMW father and having E39 M5 and E46 M3 GTR posters on my wall for years, I honestly think my E46 M3 is the last BMW I'll be buying.

My mother leased an IS350 a few months after I leased the E90. Long story short, I turned mine in and she bought hers out. My interior's finish was chipping all over the place, headliner sagging in the passenger rear corner, rattles all over the place, etc. Meanwhile, hers was still in great condition despite her putting in more miles and shuttling around clients multiple times per week and she hardly ever had to take it to the dealer while I was thanking God for the no cost maintenance because I was driving loaner cars all the time with how often my car was being serviced.
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      07-23-2013, 09:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Seeing as how these major manufacturers source out the production of their parts to smaller companies, I would bet money that you already do drive a BMW that shares parts, or at least part vendors, with a Toyota.

Also, spend a minute in a Lexus and you'll see that they aren't simply rebadged Toyotas. You can't call somebody stupid for wanting something comfortable.
I'm sure that at some point, Toyota/Lexus and BMW do have some component crossover, as all car manufacturers might.

Design, philosophy and the drivetrain aren't included in that though ...
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      07-23-2013, 09:42 PM   #27
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I'm guessing this is to be a competitor against the GTR.
Forget the LFA that is nowhere near affordable
But a Supra at the Nissan GTR price will be a nice alternative
Still not sure how BMW is involved though what would Toyota need?

Maybe it's BMW looking for a supercar like the LFA in the lineup and needing Toyota at this r&d
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      07-23-2013, 09:46 PM   #28
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It'll be a 0 Series. 035i, 028i, M0, as in ZERO Series. It's Japanese right? Japanese Zero....
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      07-23-2013, 09:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
Imagine an ///M powered successor to the LFA
Bingo. BMW knows how to build motors but on the supercar chassis front they haven't produced anything in production form anything close to the LFA. The LFA really is just lacking a more powerful motor. The chassis is one of the best there is. The stig(Schumacher) even indicated as such. Clarkson let it slip that Michael Schumacher liked the LFA more than any of the supercars that he drove on Top Gear.
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      07-23-2013, 09:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW View Post
Bingo. BMW knows how to build motors but on the supercar chassis front they haven't produced anything in production form anything close to the LFA. The LFA really is just lacking a more powerful motor. The chassis is one of the best there is. The stig(Schumacher) even indicated as such. Clarkson let it slip that Michael Schumacher liked the LFA more than any of the supercars that he drove on Top Gear.
Your username is quite fitting for this thread
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      07-23-2013, 10:01 PM   #31
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I don't quite understand the argument of a ///M powered LFA type car.... Like the LFA's power plant was not worthy... Shit, that Yamaha built V10 was freaking insane!! No... It wasn't torquey, nor was the car ultra fast straight line....But it delivered on its intention. That thing was one if the best sounding fastest revving engines ever made. It was packed full of soul... I love my S65... Think the S85 is amazing as well... The new Turbo gen... Jury is out. But I'm not subscribing to this "Toyota needs BMW's engine building prowess angle"... They do it just fine when the want to.

What the project will end up looking like is anyone's guess. I'm on the GTR fighter camp. I think both BMW and Toyota for different reasons would like to get in there and scrap with some of these track whores.... As both companies have solid Motorsport foundations but neither currently nor recently have had anything to display at that level... Regardless of who builds the engine and tunes the chassis.. I hope it's a sub 100k beast! :-)
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      07-23-2013, 10:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASELINE
I don't quite understand the argument of a ///M powered LFA type car.... Like the LFA's power plant was not worthy... Shit, that Yamaha built V10 was freaking insane!! No... It wasn't torquey, nor was the car ultra fast straight line....But it delivered on its intention. That thing was one if the best sounding fastest revving engines ever made. It was packed full of soul... I love my S65... Think the S85 is amazing as well... The new Turbo gen... Jury is out. But I'm not subscribing to this "Toyota needs BMW's engine building prowess angle"... They do it just fine when the want to.

What the project will end up looking like is anyone's guess. I'm on the GTR fighter camp. I think both BMW and Toyota for different reasons would like to get in there and scrap with some of these track whores.... As both companies have solid Motorsport foundations but neither currently nor recently have had anything to display at that level... Regardless of who builds the engine and tunes the chassis.. I hope it's a sub 100k beast! :-)
Doesn't it run mid 11 qtr miles ?? It's very quick !
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      07-23-2013, 11:22 PM   #33
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Doesn't it run mid 11 qtr miles ?? It's very quick !
0 to 60 = 3.7 seconds
1/4 mile = 11.6 seconds @ 124 MPH

It's ok but it's clearly not meant to be a straight line monster. The current generation GTR runs high 10s, for reference. The 911 Turbo is quicker in a straight line as well.
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      07-23-2013, 11:24 PM   #34
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And actually most relevantly, the 458 Italia (which most would consider a direct competitor) is faster in a straight line, although the nurburgring edition LFA outshines the 458 Italia on the track.
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      07-23-2013, 11:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
BMW has never made its own supercar. The M1 was more of a Lamborghini than a BMW. With how soft the M division has gotten, I don't see even the remote possibility of them experimenting with a home made supercar.
I would not discount BMW's ability to make a supercar. Remember that they designed and built the motor for the McLaren F1, which was THE uber supercar for a good 10+ years. its performance is still jaw dropping even by today's standards and downright amazing when you consider the fact that the engine is naturally aspirated.
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      07-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #36
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Maybe the car will actually have front and rear double wishbone/multi link suspension instead of lame MacPherson struts.

Honestly if they come out with bimmeryota twins I'd seriously consider the Toyota version over the BMW one
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      07-24-2013, 01:17 AM   #37
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I still don't get it why BMW would need a non existent sport tech from Toyota?!? BRZ thing is a joke with 200hp? civic type R puts out more then that, not everyone zoomz around corners, sometime I do drive on highways and like to pass other cars.

The array of grand "coupes" has melted BMW brains so they forgot what a real sports car should be like and now pairing with Toyota who is only good at producing hybrid shoe boxes.

What BMW needs is a Z4 hardtop that doesn't leave you with second mortgage or some sort of two door two seat coupe with AWD and 350hp+ to rival TT-RS or R8.

Enough said.

Art

PS: And make it 6 speed manual only, auto/dsg is for ladies.

Last edited by theART; 07-24-2013 at 01:26 AM.
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      07-24-2013, 01:37 AM   #38
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NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
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      07-24-2013, 02:11 AM   #39
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The ignorance in this thread is high. I'll just sit back and let Toyota/BMW surprise me, with no regards to the branding of either company. Having more options on the market will not hurt, and such a collaboration will only encourage innovation.

One thing that makes me curious is how they'll design it for maintenance. Japanese cars are typically cheaper and simpler to service while European cars are not as straightforward.
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      07-24-2013, 03:21 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
BMW has never made its own supercar. The M1 was more of a Lamborghini than a BMW. With how soft the M division has gotten, I don't see even the remote possibility of them experimenting with a home made supercar.
Sure? Only design is Italy but everything other is German engineering, is such a reliable car compared to same year Lamborghini or any other Italian supercar.
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      07-24-2013, 05:50 AM   #41
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Willing to bet this will be BMW powered or at least it better be.
Maybe this is the successor to the Supra that we've (enthusiasts) have been waiting for? A TT Inline 6, same as before, and something that Toyota doesn't make anymore (I love my 2jz-ge)...which means that a 3jz-ge will not have to be made anymore.
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      07-24-2013, 07:43 AM   #42
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I bought a Scion FRS and traded it in within 3 months. It was terrible. So bad in fact I was no even worried that I lost 4k when I traded it in. If BMW and Toyota plan on working together on a car, then BMW should tread lightly. Toyota is exactly a word for quality or reliability that people think it is.

Traded for 2012 MINI BTW.
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      07-24-2013, 07:50 AM   #43
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I bet it's going to be a Z car. Either a Z2 or Z4 (successor) with coupe and convertible versions.
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      07-24-2013, 08:09 AM   #44
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Hopefully this marriage bring intake noise and ITB´s back, but will this sports car be a successor on 1M? So means no M2.
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