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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > BMW Considering Among 4-6 Concepts Based on BMW-Toyota Joint Sports Car



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      07-26-2013, 09:17 PM   #67
kyleb350
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How you could come up with 4-6 concepts is crazy. I could see a small lightweight budget sports car that possibly is a step up from the FR-S/BRZ, a midsize front-engine modern day Supra (hybrid if they want, but whatever), and a mid-engine supercar.
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      07-28-2013, 07:11 AM   #68
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it's good news to think that BMW can justify creating the i8 as a production car with a price tag estimated in the region of 100-150k...

It means we might see something from this venture which could take on the porsche gt2 or the gt2 rs in a similar price bracket.

Anything over this is likely to be a non starter in terms of profitability. BMW has continually denied there is a business case for a supercar, but if something that competes with supercars can be squeezed into the same price bracket as the i8 I dont see why it wouldnt sell well. As long as it's brilliant of course, which of course the porsche is.
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      07-29-2013, 01:14 PM   #69
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Not a good idea, IMO.
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      07-30-2013, 02:08 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Yes and BMW makes the Mini First - 75hp, 0-60 in 13.2s. Makes a Prius look like a supercar in comparison.

Honestly bringing up the Prius has absolutely nothing to do with Toyota's ability to make sportscars. The fact that you think it does indicates how your brain works, or to be more precise how your brain doesn't work.
Mini Cooper first of all was a U.K based company before BMW bought it out, its not a bmw, I can brag a say bmw makes Rolls Royce but they don't they just own it and make the chassis and the engine or I could brag and say bmw use to make the McClaren engine but I have a brain that is more knowledgeable than you. So you make your self look even less intelligent than what you already said before. So when it comes to sports car made by bmw with their name and logo on the car, they have better line of sports car than Toyota. For you to even compare Toyota to BMW once again makes you look very un-intelligent. Also obviously your brain is not working to realize other users disagreed with you when you said Toyota has a stronger line of sports car. Did I activate a gear in your brain to start working I think it needs DCT to make it shift faster. thank you..
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      07-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #71
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Wow comparing the sports car making ability of Toyota and BMW? Never heard this one before!
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      07-30-2013, 02:09 PM   #72
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From CL: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...sed-supra.html

Quote:
Toyota's 2010 unintended-acceleration crisis and the Japan earthquake and tsunami that followed in 2011 diverted engineering resources and resulted in delays in the development of some key products and engines.

But while Toyota plays catch-up in areas such as direct injection, it is moving ahead in others. For example, it is adopting continuously variable transmissions starting this fall with the redesigned Corolla. Also, there is renewed interest in turbocharging -- starting with the Lexus brand, but quickly filtering into Toyota-badged products.

Here is a look at what's coming from Toyota........

Supra: Toyota is considering a return of the venerable sports car name. After letting the Supra trademark die in 2006, the company renewed the application in 2010. Plus, new Toyota Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada has said the sports car Toyota is developing with BMW should reflect the previous Supra. Still, dealers shouldn't expect anything for several years. If Akio Toyoda has approved the Lexus LF-LC coupe, that platform could filter down to the Supra.






I think the bottom one is the LF-LC. I don't know what the white concept is. I doubt an actual BMW/Toyota Supra would be so gaudy, though.
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      07-31-2013, 01:48 AM   #73
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I think BMW should not take a back seat in development of turbo engines. I find the N54 to be a jem of an engine far under rated in stock form and with big upside.

They should work with Toyota on what Toyota is good at. Make reasonable and more affordable cars. Thus, offering us a more reasonable priced car. They should take Toyota input on durability and making cars more reliable.

Other then that BMW should handle all the designing input of handling, powertrain, and engine performance.
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      07-31-2013, 03:32 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisar82 View Post
Wow comparing the sports car making ability of Toyota and BMW? Never heard this one before!
Well, lately Toyota has more or as good sports cars as BMW. GT86 is lighter and more affordable than 1M, other than grearbox IS-F isn't much worse than M3, and LFA is among the best sportscars of the last 20 years. Not to forget all cars Toyota had before like the MR2 and the Supra. Toyota has nothing to prove, they have already with the LFA, BMW does have to prove something now, they have not a single true sportscar since the Z4 M.
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      07-31-2013, 03:48 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NemesisX View Post
From CL: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...sed-supra.html









I think the bottom one is the LF-LC. I don't know what the white concept is. I doubt an actual BMW/Toyota Supra would be so gaudy, though.

The white one is the FT-HS, a Supra concept, V6 Hybrid, that inspired the design of the FT-86 (aka GT86/FR-S). The LF-LC will be a V8 powered performance hybrid, 2, 2+ or 2+2 seater. It is yet totally unknown what the Toyota BMW project will be, that is why I can't wait till Tokyo Auto Show.

The goal of this coorp is for Toyota to reduce price its costs on CF chassis, so that the Toyota should not costs as the LFA, same goes for BMW, they don't want to develop a sports car alone for cost reasons.

The decisions going at BMW/Toyota are what type of sportscar do they want to build, something affordable (50-60 K), a 911 rival (100 K) or a supercar. (150-200 K). The supercar is very likely have a MR layout with V8 engine, BMW S63 and Toyota their V8 Turbo or NA V8, both with hybrid tech. If a 911 rival, it would be also a 2 seater, either MR or FR layout. Both Toyota and BMW would use their V6 Turbo (assuming M3/M4 has V6). The other car would be a FR layout, something a Z4 M/Z5, V6 engine (?) and no hybrid.
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      07-31-2013, 11:33 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Care to elaborate? All I did was compare my E90's shitty interior to the IS350's. I don't exactly see what "fancy perception" I could have when I'm just comparing my own personal experience and not pulling things out of my ass. The only thing I have been "disappointed" in is BMW. After being brought up by a loyal BMW father and having E39 M5 and E46 M3 GTR posters on my wall for years, I honestly think my E46 M3 is the last BMW I'll be buying.

My mother leased an IS350 a few months after I leased the E90. Long story short, I turned mine in and she bought hers out. My interior's finish was chipping all over the place, headliner sagging in the passenger rear corner, rattles all over the place, etc. Meanwhile, hers was still in great condition despite her putting in more miles and shuttling around clients multiple times per week and she hardly ever had to take it to the dealer while I was thanking God for the no cost maintenance because I was driving loaner cars all the time with how often my car was being serviced.
I feel sorry for your experience.
Lexus is just a fancy Toyota, they might look nice outside, but when you are opening their door panels and check out their steel and the technical approach, you can see the difference. Even the guy who fixes dents on my cars told me how soft they are in comparison with German and English cars. From outside might look better (for some people) but they are not that great. Just proven reliable mechanics(usually older than competition) but they will never drive like a BMW. For me is not just the leather.
I beautiful woman might look good but there is a time when she needs to show what's inside.
I had one Lexus as a try-on and I dump the thing in two weeks. I will never buy one.
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      07-31-2013, 12:26 PM   #77
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A BMW powered by a Toyota engine?
You are kidding me right?
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      07-31-2013, 01:07 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
I feel sorry for your experience.
Lexus is just a fancy Toyota, they might look nice outside, but when you are opening their door panels and check out their steel and the technical approach, you can see the difference. Even the guy who fixes dents on my cars told me how soft they are in comparison with German and English cars. From outside might look better (for some people) but they are not that great. Just proven reliable mechanics(usually older than competition) but they will never drive like a BMW. For me is not just the leather.
I beautiful woman might look good but there is a time when she needs to show what's inside.
I had one Lexus as a try-on and I dump the thing in two weeks. I will never buy one.
So they use softer steel? News to me
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      07-31-2013, 01:21 PM   #79
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Actually....yes.
Not all stell is the same.
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      07-31-2013, 05:13 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Actually....yes.
Not all stell is the same.
Well I wasn't doubting the assertion that "soft(er)" steel exists. I was questioning his anecdotal source that suggested Toyota uses softer steel than BMW.

Anyone have a third party source to corroborate? I'm genuinely interested...

And for that matter, is harder steel always better to use, or is it context-dependent?
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      07-31-2013, 05:57 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
A BMW powered by a Toyota engine?
You are kidding me right?
BMW has no engine that is better than Toyota's 1LR. Also Toyota's 2JZ is better than BMW's I6.
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      07-31-2013, 07:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NemesisX View Post
And for that matter, is harder steel always better to use, or is it context-dependent?
I would say it depends. That being said there are a few areas where softer steel is preferred. Because of pedestrian safety laws the hood is made from a softer steel than they were in the past. If you compare the give of the hood on my E46 to that of my mother's E60, you will find the E60's is significantly less strong.

When it comes to crash testing in general engineers don't want to make the car too strong in certain places because otherwise all the forces are transferred right to the passenger compartment. A good illustration of this is to imagine dropping a glass ball onto a platform with a spring under it. If the spring is to soft then the balls energy will compress the spring completely and then shatter. If the spring is too firm then the force of the ball will not compress the spring at all, which means no energy is absorbed by the spring. Again the glass ball will shatter. So you have to find a happy medium between the two. In the case of cars its a balancing act between keeping the passenger compartment intact and keeping the forces from reaching the passengers.
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      08-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #83
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Maybe we are all wrong and the collaboration is for the i series electric cars

Last edited by nicknaz; 08-02-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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