E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu/FFTEC: 738WHP with 6466 Twin Scroll (New World Record)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-27-2013, 02:11 AM   #1
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Smile Vishnu/FFTEC: 738WHP with 6466 Twin Scroll (New World Record)

Captain Insano's 2007 e90 6MT is going to break some hearts. As well as all of our old, yet still standing, 1/4 mile and 60-130mph world records!



Details:
2007 335i 6MT
Lots of miles (over 70k)
Lots of track time at Laguna
Lots of oil coolers
Some ridiculous clutch with LWFW
VFF in-line fuel pump
Upgraded fuel rail
Bilstein Coilovers
Flared fenders with wide wheels wrapped in Toyo R888s
VFF900 (6466 Twin Scroll)
Vishnu PWM Meth
Procede+OpenFlash Tablet

Since the last time we tested the car, it make a healthy 700whp at 26psi.

Since then, it has been converted over to a disturbingly beautiful twin scroll manifold. Looks about the same from up top, but when viewed on the engine stand, it's a work of art. It's so well fabricated I want to punch myself in the face whenever I look at it:



The turbo has been upgraded to a larger 1.0 hotside with divided housing (twin scroll). This means dual wastegates and a lot more work for the fabricators (see above).

Today we finally got some time to visit a Dynojet at DNR Performance, Hayward CA. FFTEC's in-house Dyno is a Mustang Dyno and, while great for initial calibration/tuning, its not the best for dyno comparisons since it's so configurable.. as it should be for tuning!). Our goal was to run 27-28psi and see what this magic turbo can do.

First several runs of the day were at 24-25psi:

Datalog:

Another datalog:


No matter how much we raised boost target up top, we couldn't make any more peak power. Power just stopped climbing at 6700rpm, limiting power to a disappointing 707whp.

The datalogs revealed that we weren't hitting our boost targets above 6700rpm. No matter how much WGDC we added, nothing helped. Turns out we the 10psi WG springs weren't stiff enough to be controlled over 25psi using the dual port wastegate control solenoid set-up we decided to use. The dual port set-up offers incredibly good accuracy and resistance to overshoot. But with all electronic wastegate control setups, you need to choose your mechanical WG spring just right (not to stiff, not too soft) and this is often a trial and error thing. So you say this is one of those errors.

Refusing to go back to the shop, install stiffer WG springs and come back next week, we decided to get a little creative. So we changed the wastegates boost reference signal from the nipple on the turbo's compressor housing to a nipple on the intake manifold. What this essentially does is compensate for a little pressure loss cause induced by the FMIC. Which should mean just a tad bit more boost up top. Not the 28psi (775+whp) we were targeting. But just maybe 25.5. It worked. Just barely! 738whp. Not close to we were aiming for when we first came to dyno tonight. But at least good enough to break the existing world record by a good margin. And more importantly, with broader, much more useful powerband. Did I mention this thing holds power until the rev limit @ 7300?



Datalog:


And sometime during this dyno session, I inadvertantly did a run in Map1 (low boost (22psi) with no meth:


Next:
Stiffer wastegates are going in next. Then back to the dyno to run at full boost. And then 60-130 acceleration tests (high 5s or go home!). And then to the dragstrip to break my own N54 WR time of 10.8@132 from last year. Compared to my car, this car is making about 100whp more with way more top end power. It should run low 10s

Big props to Captain Insano for being insane enough to let us build and tune something like this for him to drive on the street and race on weekends.

Best Regards,
Shiv

PS. Video to come next week. The car sounds rad. Way different than our previous single scroll single turbo cars.

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 07-27-2013 at 12:28 PM.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:23 AM   #2
Hyare1
First Lieutenant
 
Hyare1's Avatar
 
Drives: Looking for a E9X
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Vancouver B.C

Posts: 307
iTrader: (0)

Vishnu I'm confused is the twin scroll on the N55 motor? So is this 739WHP on a N55?
Hyare1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:44 AM   #3
3000GT MR
Captain
 
3000GT MR's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sav GA

Posts: 922
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyare1
Vishnu I'm confused is the twin scroll on the N55 motor? So is this 739WHP on a N55?
It's the vishnu/fftec twin scroll for the n54
__________________
335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: In the works. Having a little Deja Vu
335i 2009 e90 665RWHP Mod's: Vishnu/FFtec 6466 single turbo, VRSF exhaust, spec 3+ RIP .
3000GT VR4 1994 647AWHP Mod's: Fully built/forged block, twin TD-05's, Meth, and a whole lot of support.
3000GT MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:45 AM   #4
V8bait
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 335i 6mt
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston

Posts: 219
iTrader: (1)

It's a custom twinscroll on a n54 engine. Stock longblock afaik. Impressive numbers for sure, what turbo is this again?

Twin scroll or twin fans is where it's at imo.
V8bait is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:47 AM   #5
3000GT MR
Captain
 
3000GT MR's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sav GA

Posts: 922
iTrader: (1)

Awesome numbers! A little confused about the limiting factor as stated on FB. I would like to see the captains single vs twin scroll overlay perhaps boost too.
__________________
335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: In the works. Having a little Deja Vu
335i 2009 e90 665RWHP Mod's: Vishnu/FFtec 6466 single turbo, VRSF exhaust, spec 3+ RIP .
3000GT VR4 1994 647AWHP Mod's: Fully built/forged block, twin TD-05's, Meth, and a whole lot of support.
3000GT MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:54 AM   #6
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000GT MR View Post
Awesome numbers! A little confused about the limiting factor as stated on FB. I would like to see the captains single vs twin scroll overlay perhaps boost too.
We are using twin external wastegates with 10psi springs. They are too soft to suppose any more than 25psi in the dual port wastegate configuration we run. Kind of a bummer because we were hoping to tune it up to 27-28psi tonight and shoot for 765-775whp.

The twin scroll 6466 runs a big 1.0 hot side and makes full boost at 4500rpm. Peak HP at rev limit (7300rpm) with no signs of slowing down above that. Amazing power with a ridiculously wide powerband. More later
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:58 AM   #7
3000GT MR
Captain
 
3000GT MR's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sav GA

Posts: 922
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000GT MR View Post
Awesome numbers! A little confused about the limiting factor as stated on FB. I would like to see the captains single vs twin scroll overlay perhaps boost too.
We are using twin external wastegates with 10psi springs. They are too soft to suppose any more than 25psi in the dual port wastegate configuration we run. Kind of a bummer because we were hoping to tune it up to 27-28psi tonight and shoot for 765-775whp.

The twin scroll 6466 runs a big 1.0 hot side and makes full boost at 4500rpm. Peak HP at rev limit (7300rpm) with no signs of slowing down above that. Amazing power with a ridiculously wide powerband. More later
That's some serious exhaust pressure. Why don't you just hook up the top ports on the wastegates?
__________________
335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: In the works. Having a little Deja Vu
335i 2009 e90 665RWHP Mod's: Vishnu/FFtec 6466 single turbo, VRSF exhaust, spec 3+ RIP .
3000GT VR4 1994 647AWHP Mod's: Fully built/forged block, twin TD-05's, Meth, and a whole lot of support.
3000GT MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 02:59 AM   #8
3000GT MR
Captain
 
3000GT MR's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sav GA

Posts: 922
iTrader: (1)

Disregard i just reread what you said
__________________
335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: In the works. Having a little Deja Vu
335i 2009 e90 665RWHP Mod's: Vishnu/FFtec 6466 single turbo, VRSF exhaust, spec 3+ RIP .
3000GT VR4 1994 647AWHP Mod's: Fully built/forged block, twin TD-05's, Meth, and a whole lot of support.
3000GT MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 03:07 AM   #9
Ilma
Colonel
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hometown

Posts: 2,542
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Captain Insano's 2007 e90 6MT is going to break some hearts (and some of our old acceleration records I'm sure).

Pics, video and dyno graphs to come in the morning. But here is the gist of it.

Race gas alone: 665whp @ 22.5psi
Race gas with meth: 739whp @ 25psi

Tune: Procede+OpenFlash Tablet

So is that stacked then?

.
__________________
Sticky is an idiot
Ilma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 03:13 AM   #10
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
So is that stacked then?

.
Yes Procede with a tweaked version of our OTS ProcedeFlash (single turbo) back end flash. Tweaked to allow full power up to 7300rpm. This was our comfort limit, not necessarily the engine's. And yes, it's 100% stock. And heavily roadraced.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 04:16 AM   #11
klipseracer
Banned
 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i, 05 E46 330i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Arizona

Posts: 3,012
iTrader: (27)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
2005 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via MSN to klipseracer
Impressive numbers. I'd love to see it at 27-30psi
klipseracer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 04:19 AM   #12
CaptainInsano
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Peninsula, SF Bay Area

Posts: 322
iTrader: (0)

Road raced, over-revved, neglected, and still kicking

This is sick. I need more oil coolers.
__________________
FFTEC 6466 6mt 335i | FFTEC GTX3076R Evo IX
CaptainInsano is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 04:30 AM   #13
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainInsano View Post
Road raced, over-revved, neglected, and still kicking

This is sick. I need more oil coolers.
NO please no more coolers! As it is, with your enormous coolers, it takes forever to warm the car up on the dyno. And by the time it's warm, the room is so contaminated with exhaust it defeats the purpose of cool, non-heatsoaked run.

Shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 04:41 AM   #14
CaptainInsano
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Peninsula, SF Bay Area

Posts: 322
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
NO please no more coolers! As it is, with your enormous coolers, it takes forever to warm the car up on the dyno. And by the time it's warm, the room is so contaminated with exhaust it defeats the purpose of cool, non-heatsoaked run.

Shiv
I'll get it to overheat. Trust me.
__________________
FFTEC 6466 6mt 335i | FFTEC GTX3076R Evo IX
CaptainInsano is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 04:56 AM   #15
kkashanchi
Second Lieutenant
 
kkashanchi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e90 335i
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Irvine

Posts: 237
iTrader: (-1)

not impressive for this turbo
on race gas alone it should be making appox 750whp
something is limiting this turbo whether it be the manifold or tuning or both lol
whats the deal with only 22.5 psi on race gas you should be able to crank up the boost but can't tell without any logs. post some logs
for a high compression motor with a 6466 this is kind of embarassing lol
kkashanchi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:06 AM   #16
135iDCT
Lieutenant
 
135iDCT's Avatar
 
Drives: 135I
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: wm

Posts: 429
iTrader: (0)

rwhp on pump gas only?
135iDCT is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:09 AM   #17
Stage 2 Drew
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: an SRT4 that beats ur 335 :-)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: teh 909

Posts: 206
iTrader: (0)

I'm guessing its out of injector, hence why the meth makes so much more power with only 2.5psi more.
Stage 2 Drew is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #18
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Pictures, datalogs and dyno graphs just added to first post
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:25 AM   #19
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135iDCT View Post
rwhp on pump gas only?
Been there, done that. Made over 600whp on 91oct with the single scroll 6466. The purpose of this tuning session was to make big power.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:30 AM   #20
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage 2 Drew View Post
I'm guessing its out of injector, hence why the meth makes so much more power with only 2.5psi more.
When meth isn't spraying, the Procede runs a more much more conservative ignition advance curve. Also, without meth spraying IATs are higher which means air density is lower. Both cause power losses far greater than the 2.5psi lower boost pressure would suggest.
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 05:31 AM   #21
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,616
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkashanchi View Post
not impressive for this turbo
on race gas alone it should be making appox 750whp
something is limiting this turbo whether it be the manifold or tuning or both lol
whats the deal with only 22.5 psi on race gas you should be able to crank up the boost but can't tell without any logs. post some logs
for a high compression motor with a 6466 this is kind of embarassing lol
Try reading the fist post
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-27-2013, 06:58 AM   #22
135iDCT
Lieutenant
 
135iDCT's Avatar
 
Drives: 135I
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: wm

Posts: 429
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Been there, done that. Made over 600whp on 91oct with the single scroll 6466. The purpose of this tuning session was to make big power.
How much gains do u think for the twin scroll at same boost?
can u tell us the difference between the 6466 single and twin scroll
135iDCT is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST