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      07-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #1
shiftmr2t
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High Plains Raceway?

Hey all,

I've never tracked but am looking to go to HPR at some point in the next few weeks. Is anyone planning on going anytime soon from here? Would be fun to meet some more BMW people in town.

Also, any tips for tracking at HPR? I have an E92 335i with Cobb Stage 1, stock M3 wheels with all season tires on them. Is there anything to worry about with that setup or can I just show up and be OK if I don't go too crazy? I still have the stock intercooler also, do we need to worry about heatsoak with our climate here or not really? Thanks!
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      07-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #2
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Stock intercooler really sucks. You might want to go back to Stage 0 at the track until you get a better one. I haven't gone to HPR yet but I've seen charge air temps greater than 170F on the street after only a few seconds on the stock IC running higher boost levels. The heatsoak is way worse here than at sea level. Not only are we compressing the air harder, but the ambient air stream is 20% less dense and therefore cools 20% less well.
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      07-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #3
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Oh wow great to know. Might just opt for the intercooler first and bump the tune to Stage1+ before going then.
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      07-28-2013, 11:23 AM   #4
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Hey, I may be able to go out with you, I have a couple days left on my mult-day pass. PM me.
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      07-29-2013, 05:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Hey, I may be able to go out with you, I have a couple days left on my mult-day pass. PM me.
It looks like their only open lap day coming up is Friday and I'll probably be at that one. Would you want to go Friday?
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      07-29-2013, 10:37 PM   #6
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https://www.facebook.com/events/622231854454155/ This is also an option, for Sunday. $99 track day.
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      07-29-2013, 11:31 PM   #7
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I can't make Friday, possibly Sunday, I'll have to check if my pass works on KBPI days, but motorsportreg seems to show it won't. To be honest I don't know how much you'll get out of it without an instructor your first time. Hopefully you have carted or something like that in the past. Even ski racing helps. Nonetheless, watch YouTube videos and at same time follow along on a printed HPR map and memorize the turns: (15 to remember) Direction (left or right); Elevation ( course go up or down through, before, or after the turn ); Camber - if you can tell in the vids. Hopefully you can even memorize the line. It's almost impossible to learn braking points in a video, but you should be able to spot turn in points, apexes, and turn track out points. Quiz yourself.

Don't be late to the flag meeting. Be a gentleman and give a point by when you have traffic behind you. (Though Glenn will say you don't have to, but do it anyways and you'll gain respect.) Stay on the line, be predictable and point to the side where you want/expect to be passed - straight out the window to tell the driver you expect passing on left (front straight for example between T15 and T1), point over the roof to the right for passing on right (back straight between T3 and T4). You ~should~ be pointing to the offline side of the track. Edit: most important thing here is being predictable, if you find yourself offline, don't hastily get back online and then give the point-by to the offline side. That would be inviting a collision.

Driving: Keep your eyes high (at turn in or even before you should be looking at apex, at apex or even before you should be looking at corner exit/track out etc. Be "ahead" of the car) and anticipate instead of react. I always tell students the slower and smoother you are "inside" the faster you are "outside". Fast hands and feet get you in trouble really quickly, and you're more prone to error. Stay within your means, don't prove shit to nobody and don't turn in early, especially for turns T6, T10 (go off track at 10 and you go down a hill a ways), T11, T13, and T1. If you are turning with one single motion and rolling off and on the pedals with firm "squeezes" or presses (no tapping or stomping), and hitting all your marks (turn in, apex, track out) you're doing pretty well. Keep your eyes high! Have fun.
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Last edited by aleckzandr; 07-30-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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      07-30-2013, 08:47 AM   #8
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Thanks for the tips. I was planning on Friday just because don't you think the KBPI thing on Sunday will be packed?
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      07-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #9
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Good question. I have never been to one of those KBPI days but based on the youtubes I've seen, there were very ~few~ people. It's a much better price than a single open lapping day and you can also get an instructor.
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      07-30-2013, 02:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Good question. I have never been to one of those KBPI days but based on the youtubes I've seen, there were very ~few~ people. It's a much better price than a single open lapping day and you can also get an instructor.
So I talked to the instructor/company listed on the HPR website and they said it was $385/half day. That seems like a lot to me. Are there other options for instructors around here other than that?
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      07-30-2013, 09:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
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So I talked to the instructor/company listed on the HPR website and they said it was $385/half day. That seems like a lot to me. Are there other options for instructors around here other than that?
Other than Sarian? Go 4 It Racing, Mike Pettiford. http://www.go4itservices.com/ I received instruction from Mike a long time ago, he is top notch and a really good driver. He may not be much cheaper though. I can't remember his prices but then again see his "Racing Record" at -> http://www.go4itservices.com/docs/MichaelPettiford.pdf
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      07-30-2013, 09:17 PM   #12
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After your first track day, start reading: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440609
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      07-31-2013, 08:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
After your first track day, start reading: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440609
Awesome info, I appreciate it. I think for Friday I'm going to just take it easy without an instructor (high cost) and hope that years of Gran Turismo on PS3 pay off Still will study the track though and general track day tips before going.

If I find myself addicted after this first day then it will be time to get an instructor and get serious. Semi-worried about beating up the daily driver also but I'm assuming these cars are solid enough for a few track days.
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      07-31-2013, 09:39 AM   #14
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Just be safe 1st and have fun 2nd. BTW, a quick Google search of a term (you will figure out what the search string was): http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...this-mean.html Post #9 was on a quick read the best explanation. Don't know if you have MT or AT but it still applies for AT : lock the brakes in that situation. ~If~ and only if the car is going in the worst possible (straight line) direction, you can momentarily lift the brake and hopefully the car will change direction after the tires (possibly) "hook" up (i.e. roll again), then go back to locked brakes.

Also, hopefully your tires are already quite worn. A track day can easily be equivalent to 10k or maybe even 20k miles of regular street driving, especially on A/S tires. Taking new A/S tires out will most likely cause them to "chunk" and... you won't have a good day with all those tread blocks movin' round.

Remember, keep eyes high, be smooth, slow in, fast out. Cheers.
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      08-03-2013, 09:49 PM   #15
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I'll be out tomorrow (in case anyone here is going). Shiftmr2t - if you're out there tomorrow, come by and i can give you a few addl pointers, and you can ride along a bit if you'd like. Haven't been to the track in ages...
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      08-05-2013, 09:38 AM   #16
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Hope you had fun yesterday, I ended up going Friday and there were only about 7-8 of us there in total which was awesome.

Great experience all around. I took aleckzandr's advice and set the tune (Cobb AP) back to stock, and watched a bunch of youtube videos to memorize the track a bit before going out. The engine temps were creeping up throughout the day to past 250 so I only did 10-15 minute sessions to let the car/brakes cool off.

*I am no expert and it was the first time at the track* - but I do have some impressions of the car. It felt heavy and with these all season tires I was definitely sliding around as you can hear in the video. Suspension is definitely soft for the track. I wasn't pushing the engine much and hovered in the 3-5K RPM range for the most part to focus more on lines and not running it off the track. Most laps were at or in the low 2:30ish range, so not sure how that stacks up vs. other stock 335i's. DSC was turned off and just had DTC (half way I guess) on which prevented spin out but still let the car slide around a bit. The lighter/older M3's and Porsches around were passing me up in the corners without much effort at all. I will say and it'll sound stupid but - playing Gran Turismo on PS3 for years definitely helped with racing lines, braking, approaches etc. Not claiming that the laps were good at all but it helped.

Sorry for the shaky video, could not get it still with the headrest camera mount.

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      08-05-2013, 01:47 PM   #17
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Great job. For your first time out, and on those tires, you did really well! The fact that you stayed online, didn't go off, and didn't follow the P-car when it went off line and didn't pass even with his point-by because you felt it unsafe (T4) shows some discipline and knowledge! I was amazed you didn't turn in early for T6 and some others. You can work on your line a bit with an instructor/coaching, but you more or less definitely have the basics! I hope you join BMWCCA and come out with us next spring.

Edit: So did you get addicted?
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      08-05-2013, 05:35 PM   #18
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Sweet, thanks for the feedback. You pinned everything 100%. I was uncomfortable passing him going at that speed with sharp turns coming up, and that he wasn't staying on his line. On T6 I noticed on the youtube videos people turning into it too quickly and missed the apex so knowing they would be the most challenging of all, really focused on those mostly to get them right. I will look into BMWCCA, haven't really yet.

And yes, it is addicting for sure and I would be out there a lot but do worry about beating up the car too much after all that.

Also to add - it became very apparent that if you have any sort of tune or even run stock for more than 10 minutes you definitely need an intercooler upgrade. I wasn't even pushing it that hard and the temps just kept going up on the stock tune, and it was maybe 85-86 degrees outside.
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      08-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #19
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Good work. I ended up going last fall in my e28 and had a blast. I was right around 2:30, so i'd image you could improve your times significantly with the 335...
Biggest thing would be tires, as the All seasons were likely holding you back quite a bit. My 535i is stock besides shocks/ struts bars, so the next time you go out there, you will improve. But always take it at the pace you feel comfortable, don't be dangerous out there (I had a few people spin right in front of me early morning because they were pushing too hard-- not very comfortable to have happen).

I agree about the video games too--- a few years back I really got in to Forza Motorsport and by playing so much you really get a bit more instinct of the racing lines as opposed to never doing anything of the sort. This is also true when I went indoor and outdoor carting and won the fastest time of my session each time.
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      08-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #20
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Anyone have plans to go back again this month? I have not been yet.
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      08-13-2013, 08:54 PM   #21
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I'd like to go back in the next 4 weeks, but looking at the calendar, there are no Fridays in August, b/c all are restricted to pca or SCCA, so no go for me. Mondays are nearly impossible for me to take off. I will probably shoot for early Sept.
Losingmylycosa, Aleckzandr, tschultz, any plans going back out?

Also, shiftmr2t, check out the bmwcca driving schools for instruction. They are very good, but you have to stay on the trigger - they have been filling up within a day or so of opening in the last 2 yrs. Fall school is usually in sept, spring school in may.
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      08-13-2013, 10:14 PM   #22
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Sept 13th looks like the next day for me. I might be able to make next Monday, but I'll have to see.
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