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      08-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #1
mowflow
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Syria

Suprised nobody has started a discussion on this yet.

Looks very much to me like we are heading towards picking another fight in someone else's garden. I'm torn on the situation as I could not bare to see news footge the likes of which I saw last week. However, I'm also shit scared of Russia and China.
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      08-28-2013, 04:35 PM   #2
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I am against military action, maybe this will surprise some. There is absolutely nothing about what diplomatic efforts are ongoing to talk to Assad, he must know that if the trigger is pulled it's game over for him and his cronies. It's what/who replaces them which is probably of most concern. Who would have that that an ophthalmic surgeon trained in London, married to a woman from Acton, could be someone who allegedly perpetrated such heinous crimes on innocent civilians in his own country.

General Dannatt, interviewed on Tv over the weekend is right, there needs to be a plan if the West intervene- with a beginning, a middle and an end!
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      08-28-2013, 04:48 PM   #3
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I think the most concerning aspect is the delay in publishing the "evidence" of which side perpetrated the act.

I'm sure there's more to it. Its unclear on Syria what the US would get from any military action. In other countries it has been more clear cut.
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      08-28-2013, 04:50 PM   #4
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Who would have that that an ophthalmic surgeon trained in London, married to a woman from Acton, could be someone who allegedly perpetrated such heinous crimes on innocent civilians in his own country.
He learned from the best. The eye surgery thing, I meant...
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      08-28-2013, 04:59 PM   #5
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in reality, its the CIA trained, armed and funded rebels that are carrying out these atrocities, just like in Libya..

its fortunate that these chemical attacks would happen now, to accelerate the invasion agenda when the US know that Syria will be without its state of the art, Russian anti-air defense system until next year. god forbid they were to invade a country that was able to defend itself.
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      08-28-2013, 05:13 PM   #6
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Its a tough one. I'm not completely convinced it was the regime that did gas those civilians. There's extremist groups on the rebel side that i think would be quite happy to do such a thing. With the rebels losing, what better way of turning the tide in their favour than somehow getting the US etc to do the dirty work for them and blow the regime in to the next millennium.

I am very concerned though, that if we do intervene then it could get out of hand and be the start of WW3. Iran has already said they won't tolerate it, then as OP sais, there's Russia and China...
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      08-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #7
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I don't know if Russia and China would jump into open confrontation with the US. I think they all prefer the proxy war they are having.
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      08-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #8
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What about Palestine? Israelies used white phosphorous grenades on innocent civilians whilst the world stood by. They constantly steal land and force families out. But no, we can't go there because the government is Jewish. If only they were muslim!

Makes me laugh how hypocritical the UK/US Government are. They used chemical weapons on civilians themselves in Iraq!
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      08-28-2013, 05:37 PM   #9
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What about Palestine? Israelies used white phosphorous grenades on innocent civilians whilst the world stood by. They constantly steal land and force families out. But no, we can't go there because the government is Jewish. If only they were muslim!

Makes me laugh how hypocritical the UK/US Government are. They used chemical weapons on civilians themselves in Iraq!
Exact thought went through my head when I heard the news on the radio!
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      08-28-2013, 05:41 PM   #10
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I don't know if Russia and China would jump into open confrontation with the US. I think they all prefer the proxy war they are having.
I agree, but who knows what could happen if things get out of hand.

Not sure where i stand on intervention at the moment, need to see what these UN inspectors say about who did it.
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      08-29-2013, 02:52 AM   #11
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Russia has just announced its sending an anti sub ship out into the Med to "mediate" - things are going to start really heating up now.
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      08-29-2013, 03:11 AM   #12
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What about Palestine? Israelies used white phosphorous grenades on innocent civilians whilst the world stood by. They constantly steal land and force families out. But no, we can't go there because the government is Jewish. If only they were muslim!

Makes me laugh how hypocritical the UK/US Government are. They used chemical weapons on civilians themselves in Iraq!
Spot on! my thoughts exactly! Let someone else get their hands dirty
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      08-29-2013, 03:19 AM   #13
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I'm pleased to see our elected representatives have finally shown some balls to stand up to government plans for action without UN approval. That said I fear any action has only been delayed and may yet occur.

Earlier this year there were a scattering of news reports that the opposition rebels in Syria had used chemical weapons, these stories were not picked up by the mainstream press and are not being referenced now - strange. There has also been video footage of the rebels beheading Syrian soldiers and eating their organs - these are not nice people, yet we arm them and want to help them! Whether we like it or not, the leadership in Syria is the legally recognised government.

It seems unlikely to me that the Syrian government would use chemical weapons when it knows this would cause the US to act (Obama said as much as long ago as 2011), and now with US warships stationed off the coast in the med. All too convenient if you ask me.

I don't think we have seen enough evidence of diplomacy being tried and exhausted and that has to be the first option.

It just seems to me that the UK and US leaders have learned nothing from the last 10years,... and forgotten nothing. During 3days this month, 1,300 Egyptians were viollently killed by the military regime there, but we don't get the same rhetoric from our leaders about that... they want to topple leaders they consider adversaries without even making the most basic calculations of the consequences. I am at a complete loss to understand what our government thinks it is doing!
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      08-29-2013, 03:20 AM   #14
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Assad is evil. Everyone knows that and he never denied killing his people during the past year. But he has come out and has denied the chemical weapons.
I personally feel they have come from outside Syria
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      08-29-2013, 03:37 AM   #15
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We have to trust that the idiots in charge make the right decisions based on the evidence that they have in front of them.

For me, the thought of innocent people being killed makes no sense at all.. I just can't understand how people can do that to one another.

The cost of having a war are incredible. The sad thing is that a hand full of people will make millions and millions from it.

Don't quote me, but I recall reading that the war in Iraq was close to 1 trillion? Surely that money could have been spent wiping out world hunger, planting a shit load of tree's and gone towards making our planet a better place?

As humans, do we know anything other than confrontation? Look back over our history and how things have been resolved.

Sometimes I wish that: we all spoke the same language, religion didn't exist and that people weren't divided based on X, Y and Z.

Fingers crossed that this doesn't get out of hand. I also hope my comments didn't offend anyone.
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      08-29-2013, 03:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste133 View Post
We have to trust that the idiots in charge make the right decisions based on the evidence that they have in front of them.

For me, the thought of innocent people being killed makes no sense at all.. I just can't understand how people can do that to one another.

The cost of having a war are incredible. The sad thing is that a hand full of people will make millions and millions from it.

Don't quote me, but I recall reading that the war in Iraq was close to 1 trillion? Surely that money could have been spent wiping out world hunger, planting a shit load of tree's and gone towards making our planet a better place?

As humans, do we know anything other than confrontation? Look back over our history and how things have been resolved.

Sometimes I wish that: we all spoke the same language, religion didn't exist and that people weren't divided based on X, Y and Z.

Fingers crossed that this doesn't get out of hand. I also hope my comments didn't offend anyone.
You just have to look at history to realise as humans we're really not at all 'civilised', inherently everyone is driven by self preservation, every single one of us are hypocrites in one way or another and there are very few if any truly 'selfless' people. What ever happens in Syria we (humans) will go on killing / extorting each other for the rest time....or at least until StarTrek become real, money is made redundant and everyones aim in life is to 'better humanity'
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      08-29-2013, 04:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17
What about Palestine? Israelies used white phosphorous grenades on innocent civilians whilst the world stood by. They constantly steal land and force families out. But no, we can't go there because the government is Jewish. If only they were muslim!

Makes me laugh how hypocritical the UK/US Government are. They used chemical weapons on civilians themselves in Iraq!
Absolute sense my friend. Being of Palestinian origin I am well placed to make comment, until they sort out the issue in Israel and the complete and utter disregard of every UN resolution centred at Israel then there will be no peace in the entire region. Israel's number 1 supporter is the US and most of the US lobby is Jewish as well. THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE. !!!! Everything stems from this.

Wrt the chemical weapons issue - how our media are playing up that the regime did this without proof is a joke. Lets get proof first and act under international law rather than let's do whatever the Americans want. Finally, you get rid of Assad then who goes in his place ?? Because its all worked out well in Afghan and Iraq hasn't it !

Here's a thought for you : 'Democracy is the NEW communism' !!
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      08-29-2013, 05:05 AM   #18
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Absolute sense my friend. Being of Palestinian origin I am well placed to make comment, until they sort out the issue in Israel and the complete and utter disregard of every UN resolution centred at Israel then there will be no peace in the entire region. Israel's number 1 supporter is the US and most of the US lobby is Jewish as well. THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE. !!!! Everything stems from this.

Wrt the chemical weapons issue - how our media are playing up that the regime did this without proof is a joke. Lets get proof first and act under international law rather than let's do whatever the Americans want. Finally, you get rid of Assad then who goes in his place ?? Because its all worked out well in Afghan and Iraq hasn't it !

Here's a thought for you : 'Democracy is the NEW communism' !!
Like it! It certainly appears a form of dictatorship, though thankfully the government is being stalled, so far.

wrt Israel: I believe they have no interest in having a peace agreement with the Palestianians. It is better for Israel to have the current situation because it excuses them to fire missiles into Gaza and to grab land as they see fit. If peace were to break out, they would no longer be able to grab land!
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      08-29-2013, 05:40 AM   #19
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US chomping at the bit for this invasion : http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/27/wo...yria-civil-war

Quotes like that show their recklessness in all of this

UN have already blamed the rebels for a small scale sarin chemical attack on the Syrian army earlier this year and a chlorine attack.

Plus videos of sarin gas possession :


I don't understand why Assad would launch a massive gas attack 2 days after the UN arrives. He was winning this civil war anyway. Why pull off the stupidest move he could possibly make.

Leave it to your imagination.

I'm against all wars and the UN have already said some evidence in this points to the FSA launching the attack. Whatever they do they better have conclusive evidence this time. It is quite clear Russia and china don't want more western strong hold in the Middle East and this war will just draw in the big prize, Iran. These wars every decade are going to eventually spark WW3.
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      08-29-2013, 06:55 AM   #20
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Not sure about the validity but...

http://web.archive.org/web/201301300...ame-Assad.html
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      08-29-2013, 07:05 AM   #21
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All wars are banker's wars. Propaganda is used to convince the public that we are protecting ourselves from a threat, whereas in fact we are watching the threat grow.

Does anyone actually still believe this bullshit on the war on terror that Bush made up? They are the only terrorists. Who is the only country EVER to use a nuclear bomb on its fellow humans? Yes, the USA. But again propaganda is used very cleverly to defend this. Also in Vietnam countless of civilians died and newborns were affected by the dropping of chemical weapons by the US. In Iraq, the country we invaded because we thought there were WMDs, we/USA used chemical weapons. How ironic is that!

Do you guys really think the US, who has invaded countless of countries, killed and poisoned civilians, is doing so because of morality? Please! If this was the case they would invade Israel and stop them illegally stealing land and killing people. The genocide in Darfur, which claims 5000 lives a month, is hardly reported! Instead whats more reported than this is some woman (miley) dancing in a certain way. Distraction.

Israel and the US, along with the UK, are all about Globalisation, the new word for Empire. Propaganda is their best weapon and works a treat.
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      08-29-2013, 07:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
All wars are banker's wars. Propaganda is used to convince the public that we are protecting ourselves from a threat, whereas in fact we are watching the threat grow.

Does anyone actually still believe this bullshit on the war on terror that Bush made up? They are the only terrorists. Who is the only country EVER to use a nuclear bomb on its fellow humans? Yes, the USA. But again propaganda is used very cleverly to defend this. Also in Vietnam countless of civilians died and newborns were affected by the dropping of chemical weapons by the US. In Iraq, the country we invaded because we thought there were WMDs, we/USA used chemical weapons. How ironic is that!

Do you guys really think the US, who has invaded countless of countries, killed and poisoned civilians, is doing so because of morality? Please! If this was the case they would invade Israel and stop them illegally stealing land and killing people. The genocide in Darfur, which claims 5000 lives a month, is hardly reported! Instead whats more reported than this is some woman (miley) dancing in a certain way. Distraction.

Israel and the US, along with the UK, are all about Globalisation, the new word for Empire. Propaganda is their best weapon and works a treat.
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