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View Poll Results: Should we act
No: It is not our civil war. 66 72.53%
Pending: We need further concrete evidence of chemical warfare. 6 6.59%
Yes: A couple cruise missiles are ok. That's about it though. 6 6.59%
Yes: Strike with significant impact. Hopefully it gets the job done : / 4 4.40%
Yes: Drop the hammer. Time to cripple their military and teach Syria a lesson they won't forget. 9 9.89%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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      09-11-2013, 05:29 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by i dunno View Post
Dead serious. Voicing my opinion about Putin who is involved in the Syria conflict, in a thread about Syria. Furthest thing from trolling.

Last edited by BlueZ4Arizona; 09-11-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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      09-12-2013, 12:40 AM   #134
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So according to the above you believe that Allah is a separate God and not the same as the other monotheistic religions?

US foreign policy is flawed. It has been flawed before I was a gleam in my fathers eyes. It is the reason why we are hated, why we are constantly under attack and why we have been attacked by middle eastern terrorists. The alphabet soup agencies have interrogating numerous possible terrorists and they all say the reason for the attacks is because we are over there and as long as Merica is on the Arabian peninsula we will be under perpetual attack. Instead of fixing a flawed and distasterous foreign policy, especially in the Middle East, we keep it up. Here is a cool video outlining how we've been fawkin with Iran since the 50's and a perfect example of how ridiculous we look trying to mold the world to our liking.
Geopolitics (wrt Russia, China), Oil and increasingly Religion. are three reasons the U.S. fucks around in the ME.
S./N. Korea is the same geopolitical dynamic, without the oil and religion.
S. America is relatively lucky in this respect they are out of the way.
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      09-12-2013, 12:47 AM   #135
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There is much speculation in Russia and the International community that Putin widely rigged the 2012 election, which put him in power. His first steps have been to dismantle much of the democratic setup of Russia in recent years - such as the 89 governors are not elected, but instead appointed by Putin.

Japan, India, Phillipines, etc. are indeed US allies, and have been for many years. It's not solely because we need someone to "contain China."

And it's apparently not in the interest of the US to kick the Muslim Brotherhood out of Egypt - in fact, Obama's brother Malik Obama is the Executive Director of the Islamic Dawa Organization, which is a Sudan-based fundraising organization for the MB. Lois Lerner (ex-head of the IRS) signed a retroactive tax exempt status for Malik's organization. Malik was also the best man at Obama's wedding. The new Egyptian government is now talking about investigations of the Obama Admin sending bribes to the MB leadership there, via Malik.
He rigs it, but there is no denying he is still immensely popular. What is not good is how he changes the rule as every dictator does in power.
The only reason Japan does not have to be fully contrite wrt. war crimes whereas Germany paid the full price, is because the U.S. needs a semi-colony in Asia to hedge against China. You can see it now the U.S. is tacitly allowing Japan to eliminate it's pacifist constitution, perhaps as prelude to the transfer of 'security' responsibilities to them.

So Obama IS a muslim .. but I hope he sees how bad extremism is.
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      09-12-2013, 01:16 AM   #136
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as a side note: people not to go against in war...

The Russians
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      09-12-2013, 02:40 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona
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Originally Posted by Bx Tpr View Post
But the US has the right to tell any country on the earth what to do? How does that work?
Not necessarily, but as the most powerful country in the world, we certainly don't take orders from anyone and Obama is going to spell that out in so many words in about 10 minutes.
Actually I would not be so sure the USA is the most powerful anymore. We recently ranked 5th globally for economic strength. Which is a huge hit we used to be first That and we rank not so well pretty much on most things that create a real strong country.
I think we have slipped in that measure or if we are still the most powerful I think we are on a big downward slide at the moment and won't be in the next year to 2 years unless we turn things around.
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      09-12-2013, 10:53 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by M3Denver View Post
Actually I would not be so sure the USA is the most powerful anymore. We recently ranked 5th globally for economic strength. Which is a huge hit we used to be first That and we rank not so well pretty much on most things that create a real strong country.
I think we have slipped in that measure or if we are still the most powerful I think we are on a big downward slide at the moment and won't be in the next year to 2 years unless we turn things around.
Regardless, the US has not taken orders from another counry in a couple hundred years and that's not changing any time soon.
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      09-12-2013, 11:42 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Regardless, the US has not taken orders from another counry in a couple hundred years and that's not changing any time soon.
Putin isn't trying to boss us around or assert some sort of dominance over us. He's reaching out and trying to resolve this issue. His piece in the NYT was an unexpected gesture, and I think it illustrates his sincerity in his attempt to escalate the dialogue over Syria. A plea for diplomacy isn't an order or a command. Having an informed opinion requires input from different perspectives. It would greatly benefit us to keep an open mind.

That said, Putin does have interest in keeping the Assad regime around, so whether his motives are genuine is another question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0

Last edited by i dunno; 09-12-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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      09-12-2013, 12:01 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by i dunno View Post
Putin isn't trying to boss us around or assert some sort of dominance over us. He's reaching out and trying to resolve this issue. His piece in the NYT was an unexpected gesture, and I think it illustrates his sincerity in his attempt to escalate the dialogue over Syria. A plea for diplomacy isn't an order or a command. Having an informed opinion requires input from different perspectives. It would greatly benefit us to keep an open mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0
He is requesting the US to drop the threat of mlitary force in the event the diplomatic solution does not work. That's not going to happen for him. Military force is still on the table and will remain on the table if this diplomatic solution does not work. Even if Obama ever takes military force off the table it won't be because Putin asked. So, basically he is wasting his time with the request, but you know what he probably already knows that.

Last edited by BlueZ4Arizona; 09-12-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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      09-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
He is requesting the US to drop the threat of mlitary force in the event the diplomatic solution does not work. That's not going to happen for him. Military force is still on the table and will ramain on the table if this diplomatic solution does not work. Even if Obama ever takes military force off the table it wonlt be because Putin asked. So, basically he is wasting his time with the request, but you know what he probably already knows that.
Right, we're not listening. That's why he's not requesting or asking. It's a plea.

The US government doesn't even listen to its own people.

Last edited by i dunno; 09-12-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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      09-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Regardless, the US has not taken orders from another counry in a couple hundred years and that's not changing any time soon.
The US government doesn't respect the wishes of its own citizens. Why should it listen to anyone right? Government does what it wants when it wants and that's good to go for some people I guess.

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      09-12-2013, 04:02 PM   #143
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There goes our "leading expert on Syria", so highly regarded and for "expertise" and so actively quoted by Kerry and even by Standartenführer McCain himself...

"The Institute for the Study of War has learned and confirmed that, contrary to her representations, Ms. Elizabeth O'Bagy does not in fact have a Ph.D. degree from Georgetown University. ISW has accordingly terminated Ms. O'Bagy's employment, effective immediately,"

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/11/us/syr...red/index.html
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      09-12-2013, 04:09 PM   #144
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Military might... Russia is 2nd to US and other countries don't compare when it comes to advances weaponry and capability...

The undercover battle right now is the world sphere of influence.... US is digging into Russia's backyard and isn't going to let the strategic region fall into US sphere of influence....

To have balance in this political realm of world 'chess' .... We need to have more than one superpower... At the moment ... US, Russia and China are the titans...
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      09-12-2013, 09:42 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Not necessarily, but as the most powerful country in the world, we certainly don't take orders from anyone and Obama is going to spell that out in so many words in about 10 minutes.
Most powerful country in the world
"Financed by china"

Big difference
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      09-12-2013, 10:01 PM   #146
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Most powerful country in the world
"Financed by china"

Big difference
40 years ago the US was Financed by Japan. Which Asia country is next?
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      09-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Bx Tpr View Post
The US government doesn't respect the wishes of its own citizens. Why should it listen to anyone right? Government does what it wants when it wants and that's good to go for some people I guess.

Your opinion i guess,, and you can spin it off in any direction you want, but it does nothing to dispute the fact that the US takes orders from NO ONE including Putin, which is the only fact I expressed.
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      09-12-2013, 10:40 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Your opinion i guess,, and you can spin it off in any direction you want, but it does nothing to dispute the fact that the US takes orders from NO ONE including Putin, which is the only fact I expressed.
There's not much point in expressing something as irrelevant as what you managed to come up with.

The stance of the Free World towards the US regime is not about issuing "orders". USA is a rampant crazed criminal, completely out of control, deaf and blind. There's no point of issuing "orders" to such an entity. They won't be heard.

What the Free World is doing by this it is trying to communicate with those forces and fractions inside the US regime that we know still exist and that we know are capable of listening to the voice of reason. These fractions are the primary reason the World believes that USA still has a hope eventual reintegration into the Civilized World, into the human race.

Putin is carrying out these communications simply because he happens to be the President of Russia at the current moment. As the leader for the Free World, Russia is expected to take leadership in resolving such issues.

Last edited by AndreyT; 09-13-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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      09-12-2013, 11:26 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
Your opinion i guess,, and you can spin it off in any direction you want, but it does nothing to dispute the fact that the US takes orders from NO ONE including Putin, which is the only fact I expressed.
I can post videos of more smart uncorrupted statesmen like Dr. Ron Paul stating nothing but facts and you would still believe that this country's sh!t doesn't stink. One of the many sheeple this country has bred.
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      09-13-2013, 09:08 AM   #150
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There's not much point in expressing something as irrelevant as what you managed to come up with.

The stance of the Free World towards the US regime is not about issuing "orders". USA is a rampant crazed criminal, completely out of control, deaf and blind. There's no point of issuing "orders" to such an entity. They won't be heard.

What the Free World is doing by this it is trying to communicate with those forces and fractions inside the US regime that we know still exist and that we know are capable of listening to the voice of reason. These fractions are the primary reason the World believes that USA still has a hope eventual reintegration into the Civilized World, into the human race.

Putin is carrying out these communications simply because he happens to be the President of Russia at the current moment. As the leader for the Free World, Russia is expected to take leadership in resolving such issues.
Oh, please. The only thing the Russians give a crap about, insofar as Syria is concerned, is the preservation of their energy markets to Europe. And arms sales. Exactly the same as the US. Putin just happens to be the beneficiary of a gullible and ineffective POTUS right now.

Given the likelihood of a Hillary or Christie presidency in 2016, neither of them would tolerate this crap from Russia. Enjoy it while it lasts...
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      09-13-2013, 10:11 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyT View Post
There's not much point in expressing something as irrelevant as what you managed to come up with.

The stance of the Free World towards the US regime is not about issuing "orders". USA is a rampant crazed criminal, completely out of control, deaf and blind. There's no point of issuing "orders" to such an entity. They won't be heard.

What the Free World is doing by this it is trying to communicate with those forces and fractions inside the US regime that we know still exist and that we know are capable of listening to the voice of reason. These fractions are the primary reason the World believes that USA still has a hope eventual reintegration into the Civilized World, into the human race.

Putin is carrying out these communications simply because he happens to be the President of Russia at the current moment. As the leader for the Free World, Russia is expected to take leadership in resolving such issues.
Oh, please. The only thing the Russians give a crap about, insofar as Syria is concerned, is the preservation of their energy markets to Europe. And arms sales. Exactly the same as the US. Putin just happens to be the beneficiary of a gullible and ineffective POTUS right now.

Given the likelihood of a Hillary or Christie presidency in 2016, neither of them would tolerate this crap from Russia. Enjoy it while it lasts...

Yes - Hillary would probably hand him another "Reset" button - she might even spell it correctly this time, and look like a little less of a fool, while mocking George Bush to him.

It amazes me that she is still a contender, after 5 years of a piss-poor job as Secretary of State, ending with the Benghazi mess. But you are correct - the a many that would still vote for her.
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      09-13-2013, 11:36 AM   #152
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as a side note: people not to go against in war...

The Russians
Man that's hard to watch. Between her awkward faces, the completely cynical attitude, punchline delivery and those eyes, it's hard to take her seriously and consume any actual information from her.
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      09-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #153
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Right, we're not listening. That's why he's not requesting or asking. It's a plea.

The US government doesn't even listen to its own people.
A plea is a request. They are one in the same. Putin is pleading with/requesting the US to take the military threat off the table. Our answer was: No.

I don't like the guy (Putin)! That's really the only point I was making. He irritates me and many Americans. So, there isn't much he can do or say that will sit well. He burned his bridge.

Your opinion on whether the US government listens to it's own people is interesting, but off topic for this specific thread, so I will refrain from commenting.

Last edited by BlueZ4Arizona; 09-13-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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      09-13-2013, 03:07 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by BlueZ4Arizona View Post
A plea is a request. They are one in the same. Putin is pleading with/requesting the US to take the military threat off the table. Our answer was: No.

I don't like the guy (Putin)! That's really the only point I was making. He irritates me and many Americans. So, there isn't much he can do or say that will sit well. He burned his bridge.

Your opinion on whether the US government listens to it's own people is interesting, but off topic for this specific thread, so I will refrain from commenting.
There's a significant difference between a plain request and a plea. There's more urgency, emotion, and a sense of desperation. Putin obviously knows the US isn't listening so he's showing his vulnerability in order to gain our trust. We may not listen, but I think it's important to note that he's deflating his ego and wrote with humility in the NYT. I thought it was a respectable move. It's still up in the air whether his motives are genuine or not.

It's hard to tell what will happen, as there's no concrete negotiations yet. In my opinion, it'd be prudent for us to not intervene with Syria, and it'd be an even worse idea to use military force just to show Putin who's boss.

My comment about the US government applies to this situation in that there seems to be no accountability for our government's actions. Throughout this entire Syria episode, the only thing I could think about is what's keeping us in check? If the government decides to go invade Syria, the international community can't stop us, and opinions of the citizens our government is suppose to represent won't matter. Government is suppose to be a service to its constituents and act as their representative. The idea of going to war without our own oversight is overstepping our government's intended power.

If we proceed with military intervention in Syria and countless more innocent lives are lost, how are we better than Assad?

Last edited by i dunno; 09-13-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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