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      09-16-2013, 01:34 PM   #67
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Tried this last night.

2012 335i. Alarm is standard. No Comfort Access.

Car was armed from the outside twice (to disable motion sensors). Central door lock/unlock was unresponsive. Pulling door handle twice did not work.
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      09-16-2013, 01:42 PM   #68
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Weird. I just tried it:
My setup: 2013 328i Sport Line. No Comfort, no alarm.
Locked car from outside. Central locking button did nothing.
Pulling a door handle once unlocked door, second time opened door.

Why are people seeing different results?
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      09-16-2013, 01:58 PM   #69
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Okay tried it again.

2012 335i. Alarm is standard. No Comfort Access.

Car was armed from the outside twice (to disable motion sensors). Central door lock/unlock did not work. But pulling the door handle twice did in fact open the door. Alarm sounded. I don't know why it didn't work last night.
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      09-16-2013, 02:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number View Post
I don't know why it didn't work last night.
Well that wasn't very assuring lol
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      09-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #71
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Why is everyone trying to blame the car instead of asking the more obvious question?

Where was the key?
Who locked the car from the outside with the girl in it?
Why would anyone lock the car with someone in it with windows up and no AC?
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      09-16-2013, 02:44 PM   #72
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The accountability falls on the operator of the vehicle. Period. It's the operator's responsibility to fully understand the equipment they're using, not the manufacturer's. It's all right there in the manual...

If someone left their family in their running BMW in a closed garage asphyxiating them all, would you blame BMW?

I personally appreciate the double-lock feature. As many have noted, it makes it impossible to open the doors which is a major deterrent if some lowlife tries breaking a window to gain entry. The average criminal won't want to be bothered with climbing through the window.

While the story is certainly sad and disturbing, why in the world would anyone lock someone in a car without the keys regardless of the make? Common sense is not so common I suppose.
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      09-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Igor@ONEighty View Post
Well that wasn't very assuring lol
I know huh? In any case, I won't be locking anyone in the car with the remote from now on.
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      09-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
BMW is somewhat to blame as I am sure no one could have predicted that the car would go into such a lock down mode. In fact, enthusiasts here have had to run experiments to see that this was actually true. And for what reason does the car need to go into this lockdown mode?? To catch a burglar? Really?
Not to catch a burglar, to keep them from opening the door if they break the window. There is such a thing as an owner's manual and a great acronym to go with it--RTFM.

BTW does anybody know what the "special knowledge" is regarding unlocking our cars?
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Last edited by snowghost; 09-16-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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      09-16-2013, 03:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
Why is everyone trying to blame the car instead of asking the more obvious question?

Where was the key?
Who locked the car from the outside with the girl in it?
Why would anyone lock the car with someone in it with windows up and no AC?
With the assumption that the girl tried to get out of the car but was not able to due to the locking thing, the answer to your question is - because no matter where the key is, no matter who locked the car, and no matter why they locked the car, a car should be able to be opened from the inside without the key.

If somebody bought a toaster, and it came with a 242 page owners manual, and a small paragraph on page 32 said something like "Do not use bagel option on Tuesdays as the heating coils will not turn off until Wednesday," I think most people would be blaming the toaster for fires it started, rather than asking questions like "What kind of bagel? Who started it toasting? Why would they turn on the heating coils for a whole day?"
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      09-16-2013, 03:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number View Post
I know huh? In any case, I won't be locking anyone in the car with the remote from now on.
I did find the following on page 34 of the owner's manual:

Quote:
The following takes place simultaneously when
locking/unlocking the vehicle via the remote
control:
▷ Depending on how the vehicle is equipped,
the theft protection is activated/deactivated.
Theft protection prevents the doors from
being unlocked using the lock buttons or the
door opener
.
▷ The welcome lamps, interior lamps and
courtesy lamps are switched on and off.
▷ The alarm system, refer to page 40, is
armed or disarmed.
This "theft protection" appears to be different from the alarm, and is optional equipment? Not sure what effects whether its equipped or not - I don't recall such an option when ordering the car... Anyway, perhaps your car has this "theft protection" option, and something about how you did it last night activated it, but what you did today didn't?
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      09-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post

If somebody bought a toaster, and it came with a 242 page owners manual, and a small paragraph on page 32 said something like "Do not use bagel option on Tuesdays as the heating coils will not turn off until Wednesday," I think most people would be blaming the toaster for fires it started, rather than asking questions like "What kind of bagel? Who started it toasting? Why would they turn on the heating coils for a whole day?"
Well if the owner of the toaster over burns the house down and kills their three children and spouse, they are responsible! RTFM! Duh.
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      09-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ric124 View Post
Why is everyone trying to blame the car instead of asking the more obvious question?

Where was the key?
Who locked the car from the outside with the girl in it?
Why would anyone lock the car with someone in it with windows up and no AC?
With the assumption that the girl tried to get out of the car but was not able to due to the locking thing, the answer to your question is - because no matter where the key is, no matter who locked the car, and no matter why they locked the car, a car should be able to be opened from the inside without the key.

If somebody bought a toaster, and it came with a 242 page owners manual, and a small paragraph on page 32 said something like "Do not use bagel option on Tuesdays as the heating coils will not turn off until Wednesday," I think most people would be blaming the toaster for fires it started, rather than asking questions like "What kind of bagel? Who started it toasting? Why would they turn on the heating coils for a whole day?"
Thank you. It it unreasonable to expect someone to inherently know that they couldn't escape from the inside of a locked car. It's a stupid and dangerous feature and should be disabled.
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      09-16-2013, 07:17 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic
The accountability falls on the operator of the vehicle. Period. It's the operator's responsibility to fully understand the equipment they're using, not the manufacturer's. It's all right there in the manual...

If someone left their family in their running BMW in a closed garage asphyxiating them all, would you blame BMW?

I personally appreciate the double-lock feature. As many have noted, it makes it impossible to open the doors which is a major deterrent if some lowlife tries breaking a window to gain entry. The average criminal won't want to be bothered with climbing through the window.

While the story is certainly sad and disturbing, why in the world would anyone lock someone in a car without the keys regardless of the make? Common sense is not so common I suppose.
It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
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      09-16-2013, 07:38 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
There are literally thousands of analogies.

According to you, Smartphones kill people as a text came in while moving - had nothing to do with someone illegally reading it while driving.
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      09-16-2013, 08:49 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
There are literally thousands of analogies.

According to you, Smartphones kill people as a text came in while moving - had nothing to do with someone illegally reading it while driving.
Really? I said that?

Look, if we lived in a land of ignorance, and the cell phone companies knew how dangerous it was to text and drive and we had no idea that texting and driving was dangerous, but the cell phone companies touted how safe and wonderful their phones were to use while driving then I hope you would agree the cell phone companies would have some culpability, right?

Good, now we agree on that.

Now, if, over the course of 15 years, BMW had reason to know that children or disabled adults could be trapped, or have been trapped inside the car due to the flawed design of the central locking system, then I think you would agree that BMW would be culpable to some degree.

Great, now we agree on that too.

So, finally, as I have said numerous times here, I refer to the "BMW car" as having caused the problem because I don't know if BMW corporate was aware of this problem. I have good reason to believe that BMW knew or should have known as a result of their near black box warning that appears in the manual.

Nevertheless, while I don't know if BMW is culpable to any degree, I do know that being trapped in a car with older and possibly newer central locking designs was reasonably foreseeable.

For that reason, I blame the car and not BMW. Should evidence surface that BMW understood the dangers, then I would blame BMW directly.
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      09-16-2013, 08:50 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
I agree with you, the other analogies others have brought up don't quite address the fact that most cars when locked from the outside can still be unlocked from the inside. Since this double lock is not common knowledge, I don't expect a high school student driving a 1997 bmw to know that he would be double locking his sister in the car. I'm not sure the benefits of preventing someone from illegally opening a door outweigh the risks of trapping someone inside. As it was most likely a used car, I'm not sure if it would've had a manual.
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      09-16-2013, 08:59 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by sn3rd View Post
Just tried this in my 2013 335i. No comfort access.

The car locks, the unlock button on the dash does not work, the door handles do not work, regardless of the number of times that I pull them. Ignition does not work, and so no electric windows.

Pretty scary!

I would be interested to know more about the "special knowledge" that is required.

Edit: the alarm did start going nuts after a bit. When it did, I still could not open the car. However it is pretty loud, so to the point of this thread, I would think someone would have noticed and helped the girl?
It is odd that pulling on the lever doesn't unlock and open the door.
I don't know exactly, but I believe I once was in my 135i passenger side cleaning and one of the kids locked the car. I seem to remember being able to unlock the door and open it just by pulling on the latch lever.
But that was a 135i and I don't have it anymore to try it out.

Also, I thought not all BMW's have a security system?
And, I just read the 07 manual that states that if you do have the alarm, then motion inside the car will trigger the alarm setting off the horn and flashing lights.

True tragedy over something so seemingly benign.
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      09-16-2013, 09:04 PM   #84
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The manual is nice to see how to access a shortcut or review some car features but no one should be expected to have to read the car's manual to avoid creating a seriously dangerous situation that could never have been anticipated. There are huge threads with people posting cool things they didn't know about their cars and I bet most if not all of them are buried in the manual. That's ok as those are fun features - this is dangerous.
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      09-16-2013, 09:16 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Weird. I just tried it:
My setup: 2013 328i Sport Line. No Comfort, no alarm.
Locked car from outside. Central locking button did nothing.
Pulling a door handle once unlocked door, second time opened door.

Why are people seeing different results?
Seems this "feature" is a function of the alarm system and/or the "anti theft" system, which not all BMW's have.
Given the various results from people testing it seems there may be optional settings that either allow or not allow someone inside a locked and activated car to unlock and open a door.
This might explain why some people can simply pull the door lever and unlock and open the door from inside and why others can't.

According to the 07 manual if you have the alarm there is also an internal motion sensor, so if there is someone inside and moving around it should trigger the alarm/horn and flashing lights.
But, there is also a way to disable that sensor.
Maybe the owners did disable it and didn't know it?

We don't know the whole truth, but from the owners here doing a test, seems the alarm system really does do a major and potentially dangerous lock down.
I'm NOT comfortable with not being able to unlock and open the doors from the inside. That's a dangerous situation waiting to happen.
This alarm system NEEDS a fix so that a person already inside the car can unlock and open the door just like in a non alarm car.

If a thief were to break a window to get in, then he's already in, and the alarm should simply go off as intended.
But why one can't unlock the doors from the inside is very questionable.

If the driver were to leave a window open and armed the alarm, shouldn't the system know NOT to activate and alert the driver to the open window?
It won't lock or arm if the person is still in the car with the fob.
And, the system knows when the window is open or not.
So why the lock down on the inside?

If what happened is truly because the young girl couldn't unlock the doors, then that's enough to warrant a change in the system.

Blaming the brother is heartless and nonsense imo.
Hell, we're enthusiasts for God's sake and even we had to confirm this reality. Can't expect the typical casual driver to know this system does something irrational.
I didn't expect this to be true and have read the manual a few times, but for whatever reason I MISSED that part, so a non enthusiast can obviously also miss it.

BMW will be doing a lot of face saving, and retrofitting in the coming months.
Short term resale values may drop, and potentially new sales until BMW spends time and money convincing the public they've fixed the issue.
I wonder how many other non BMW automobiles behave the same way?

Way too unfortunate for this little girl and her family to potentially save others in the future.
This saddens me the more I think about and find that it probably is due to a major oversight of something so obvious.

Last edited by RPM90; 09-16-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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      09-16-2013, 11:13 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Really? I said that?

Look, if we lived in a land of ignorance, and the cell phone companies knew how dangerous it was to text and drive and we had no idea that texting and driving was dangerous, but the cell phone companies touted how safe and wonderful their phones were to use while driving then I hope you would agree the cell phone companies would have some culpability, right?

Good, now we agree on that.

Now, if, over the course of 15 years, BMW had reason to know that children or disabled adults could be trapped, or have been trapped inside the car due to the flawed design of the central locking system, then I think you would agree that BMW would be culpable to some degree.

Great, now we agree on that too.

So, finally, as I have said numerous times here, I refer to the "BMW car" as having caused the problem because I don't know if BMW corporate was aware of this problem. I have good reason to believe that BMW knew or should have known as a result of their near black box warning that appears in the manual.

Nevertheless, while I don't know if BMW is culpable to any degree, I do know that being trapped in a car with older and possibly newer central locking designs was reasonably foreseeable.

For that reason, I blame the car and not BMW. Should evidence surface that BMW understood the dangers, then I would blame BMW directly.
Clearly you are an ambulance chasing attorney who wants to blame others for their own stupidity. If not, you should consider it as you have the same view of life.

The car companies tell everyone DO NOT LEAVE A CHILD OR PET IN A PARKED CAR. It was NOT the car's fault.
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      09-17-2013, 02:12 AM   #87
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I would have to say BMW is more at fault than the 14 year old girl. But I would like to know more details from the investigation, did the horn not work? or the trunk release? just a tragic situation. May God bless the family during this difficult time.
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      09-17-2013, 04:24 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
First, clearly a tragic accident.

Why do we see it differently? We clearly come from different perspectives of understanding a design feature and/or who takes responsibility for our actions.

From my perspective a total lockdown is for car security, well documented and not uncommon here in the UK. We had a massive campaign over here for added security a few years back, due to the high amount of car theft, "deadlocking" was a design feature in preventing theft. Welcomed by many like the insurance companies, customers, and a selling point for added car security. If it is not 100% then it is a joke and not an effective system. Can't have it both ways, if you can override it, it is not a security feature.

Then there is personal responsibility, and common sense. I've left and locked passengers in the car over the years, but leave the key with them, even if not locking the car, show them how to get out, lock the car, open windows, etc., in case they need to get out, leave the car, etc. To me that is just part of common sense and taking responsibility. Some of us live that way, as we would for other facets of our life, like looking after our own health.

I sense there are a lot of folks who don't think ahead and if it all goes wrong look to pass the blame. (Like many smokers and heavy drinkers, asking "why me?" when it all goes to wrong). That sort of person see things totally different than I do.

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