E90Post
 


Lux Angel Eyes
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > E92 330d - Smoke, Smell, EGR et al.



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-30-2013, 09:47 PM   #23
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

The new scroll design does not appear to block up so replacement is not likely to give any improvement. I think Exxie is on the right track as my own e90 always has a fair proportion of oil in the intake from the breather. Overall my engine is in good health but the scroll breather seems to pass a fair bit to the intake. If you have dpf removed the oil consumption is more noticeable due to lack of oil dilution by diesel. The difficult bit is fitting a can between the breather outlet and intake as there is little space to get some t pieces in. A catch can would be much healthier imo although I have yet to do this to my own car. I guess you could just turn the breather 90deg to a remote can and block the turbo intake but the there is only abut 25mm.
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      12-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #24
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the confirmation ade, definitely going to give the catch can a go. I have considered two options:

1. Route to intake: adding a catch can to the existing configuration would allow the negative intake pressure to help draw out the blow by gases as intended, which seems to have minor performance gains. However, this may still allow some (less) oil through and might be tricky to plumb given the distance between the outlet under the air filter and the inlet.

2. Vent to atmosphere: not sure of the legality of this approach, but venting via a filter on the catch can outlet and plugging the inlet of the intake would simplify the installation and ensure no blow by enters the intake. Potentially some minor performance loss but better peace of mind.

My engine is in pieces so I want to give this a go asap. Your opinions?
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-06-2014, 06:00 PM   #25
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Update!

OK, so after much delay waiting for parts and going on holiday, I've reassembled the engine. I did the following:
- Remove and clean intake manifold
- Delete swirl flaps and fit blanking plates (piece of mind)
- Wipe down cylinder head (there was oil everywhere)
- Fit new gaskets (13 of them)
- Delete EGR valve and fit bypass pipe

I have not yet reconnected the breather outlet to the intake as I wanted to see how the engine ran and how much smoke was blowing out of there.

There is a lot. I believe this is the cause of my issue as there is noticeably less smoke from exhaust. There's still some, but the oil in the cylinders probably needs to burn off. The smoke now pours out from the breather outlet.

How much blow-by smoke is considered normal? Are my piston rings stuffed? I connected a catch can with an air filter and the smoke goes straight through the filter!

Not really sure what to do now. I'm leaning towards changing the breather to the old style as suggested by jean019. If this works, I'll reconnect it to the intake. Alternatively, is there something I can stuff the catch can with (it's not baffled) to help filter the gas?

As always, big thanks in advance!
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2014, 07:13 PM   #26
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

Hi there I hardly ever logon to this site any more as I have been so busy with 2 rally cars 2 motorbikes and about to have two houses.
I cant shed any further light on what you have done. If its any consolation my car sounds similar and I have not found a solution. The car is quick and great on fuel , compression is good and injectors all within spec. It does use 1ltr oil every 4k which is fairly high but would probably be considered normal. I can find no problems visually or with diagnostic kit. I have been wondering about the turbo oil seals on exhaust side. Car is on 88k now and is in good order and always serviced with top grade parts.
I had also considered going back to the old type foam breather. If you do, update us with the results please.

Ade
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2014, 03:45 AM   #27
335DEE
Captain
 
335DEE's Avatar
 
Drives: 335d
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England

Posts: 734
iTrader: (1)

If have to agree with ade. If think that after all has been done this whole scenario has been overcomplicated and that it's a simple case of the turbo seals are weeping.
When the engine is at temp there is a fair amount of smoke in the breather gasses, sounds like you have more than you should. If think I'd be removing the turbo next to see what the play in the shaft is like and if there is any oil going through the exhaust
335DEE is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 06:59 AM   #28
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ade146 View Post
I had also considered going back to the old type foam breather. If you do, update us with the results please.
So I bought the loo roll separator and installed it into my empty breather assembly and it made... No difference at all. Bugger. The smoke pours out thick and fast from cold start. I don't think it's the turbo as the exhaust is almost smoke free with the intake isolated from the breather. This mist was just going straight through the engine and out the exhaust, coating everything with oil along the way.

I've now removed and cleaned the intercooler and charge pipes. Oil literally poured out of the intercooler, which would no doubt have affected its efficiency. I haven't put it back in yet as I want to give it plenty of time to dry. I'll also probably change the gaskets as there was plenty of oil on the red boost pipe so there's a leak somewhere.

Still no idea what to do with those crankcase gases...
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2014, 08:32 AM   #29
E91-Gaz
Private
 
Drives: 2010 E91 318d
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Cardiff

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335DEE View Post
If have to agree with ade. If think that after all has been done this whole scenario has been overcomplicated and that it's a simple case of the turbo seals are weeping.
When the engine is at temp there is a fair amount of smoke in the breather gasses, sounds like you have more than you should. If think I'd be removing the turbo next to see what the play in the shaft is like and if there is any oil going through the exhaust
I've got to be honest when I first read this a couple of months back I thought turbo seals but everyone was talking about EGR's. Same scenario back in the day with the turbo charged petrol engines, when you de-catted the exhaust i.e reduced the back pressure it would highlight weak turbo seals that were relying upon that little bit of backpressure to stop the oil seeping through. Especially noticeable after about 20 seconds idling at traffic lights I would always specify staggered oil seals when getting a turbo rebuilt.

Are you running the correct grade of oil?

When the engine is idling and its smoking what happens if you just rev the engine slightly say 1100rpm (therefore increasing the pressure in the exhaust) you will need to rev it for a couple of minutes to clear any oil in the exhaust....
E91-Gaz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-14-2014, 04:06 PM   #30
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E91-Gaz View Post
Are you running the correct grade of oil?

When the engine is idling and its smoking what happens if you just rev the engine slightly say 1100rpm (therefore increasing the pressure in the exhaust) you will need to rev it for a couple of minutes to clear any oil in the exhaust....
The garage used Castrol Edge 5w30 on the last change. It doesn't get that cold here so I will probably try Magnatec 15w40 and see if that reduces the blow-by. Any thoughts on this oil? Note I have no DPF so I don't need LL04.

When I rev the engine slightly, the flow of blow- by increases. This is not from the exhaust as mentioned, as I have not reconnected the breather to the intake. The exhaust does not appear to be smoking on its own.
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-14-2014, 06:28 PM   #31
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

Once I removed the DPF I started using Mobil 1 5w40 which I think is much better oil but I didnt see any improvement in crankcase breathing.

These cars arent known for turbo issues and mine has been the same since I bought it at 60k. It hasnt got any better or worse over the last 25k. I have had a look at the compressor and it seems fine. There is some play but none in the shaft direction. It doesnt feel like new but it doesnt seem worn either. I have not tried running with a re route of the breather but Exxie has and it does cure the excess exhaust smoke. That doesnt really point to the turbo does it?

The turbos are pretty hard to change and are expensive so it isnt a cheap shot. I just live with mine for the moment as I do not have a plan of attack. If there was a dpf we would be none the wiser.
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-15-2014, 04:59 PM   #32
E91-Gaz
Private
 
Drives: 2010 E91 318d
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Cardiff

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

Sorry I missed the part where Exxie said that it was almost smoke free with the breather disconnected from the intake. No I wouldn't say its turbo oil seals now.
E91-Gaz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-15-2014, 06:21 PM   #33
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Agree, it's not the turbo. Next step is to attempt to reduce the amount of blow-by oil mist by using thicker oil. I'll probably do this next week.

Another thing I could do is to put some extra filtering material into the breather pipe and change it regularly. An external catch can would be better, but the plumbing is too hard given the large diameters of the existing connections and limited space.

Any suggestions for said material? Something that will absorb the oil while allowing the air to pass through, but won't break up with the heat and get sucked into the engine.

This weekend I will refit the intercooler after its big clean. I still can't get over how much oil came out of it. I'll also replace the seal between the red boost pipe and cooler because it had lots of oil around it so I would have been losing boost. Hoping for a little performance bump here!

As usual, will update with results.
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      03-09-2014, 04:04 PM   #34
netgear2
New Member
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

@ Exxie, how did you solve the problem in the end, any update on that?
netgear2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-09-2014, 05:12 PM   #35
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

I am glad this thread has been revived as I am still looking at mine. I have done some research on this recently. The oil separators appear to be an issue on all 3.0d and BMW haven't made up their minds what to do. I believe there are at least three types. The foam filter known as toilet roll, the vortex and the new ones are an empty box. I also believe that many people are making a mistake when changing the separators as they aren't changing the lid which has the valve in it. I am going to change mine next week after I decide which type to put in it.
I also suspect heavy breathing may be responsible for many dpf issues. I haven't been able to find anyone that has actually looked at the valve in the plastic lid to find out how it works but when I remove mine I will try to work it out as I suspect that part is the main problem.
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-11-2014, 11:03 PM   #36
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ade146 View Post
I am glad this thread has been revived
Sorry for the slow update, I decided to try a couple of things and got sidetracked with other commitments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ade146 View Post
The oil separators appear to be an issue on all 3.0d and BMW haven't made up their minds what to do. I believe there are at least three types. The foam filter known as toilet roll, the vortex and the new ones are an empty box.
That's correct, we have the newer empty breather with no separator whatsoever!

I have added the loo roll into my breather assembly, which I changed not long ago. If yours is old, you should buy the entire older assembly including the separator, as the valve can clog up over time. You would then change the separator part only each air filter change. See my last post on this forum for part numbers:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=945740

The oil vapour was reduced by adding the separator, but it was still pretty significant. Since then, I've changed to a thicker grade of oil (10w40) and added a ceramic engine treatment product (CerTech Gel). I've reconnected the breather to the intake as I couldn't find a suitable way to plumb a catch can and venting outside the vehicle was WAY too obvious.

The end result is almost zero smoke from the exhaust. I don't know if it was the thicker oil or the ceramic treatment (or both), but the blow-by issue seems to be resolved. The exhaust still stinks, but at least there's no more smoke. I might try some Dipetane to help the fuel combust more completely.

The engine runs smoother and has more pull than before. I also cleaned the intake manifold, intercooler and boost pipes and changed the intercooler, EGR and cylinder head gaskets, so I would have been pretty disappointed if there were no gains.

I'm still experiencing the issue where after the car has warmed up, it becomes "trucky". I may need to replace the thermostats or it may be heatsoak from the intercooler running less efficiently than it should (even after cleaning out all the oil, perhaps now there is residue from the degreaser).

Overall, I'm pretty happy with where the car is at now. It's great on fuel and is quick enough, just a couple of ongoing niggles...
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      03-12-2014, 01:01 PM   #37
netgear2
New Member
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

@ Exxie and ade146, thanks for the update!
I cam across your thread recently after having tried all what you mentioned in your thread, except adding a filter to the breather housing. I am in the same situation as you, only this morning found out that there is an oil leak at turbine side of turbo which could be responsible for exhaust smoke (worn turbo seals) but then white smoke from crankcase does not make any sense.
According to realoem, 330Ds dont have any oil separator filter atleast since 05/2005 but 320Ds have had it all along. My feeling is BMW avoided to put these filters in 6 pots as they produce more blow-by compared to 4 pots and could block filters rapidly. Blocked filters are a well known cause of blown trubos due to consequent increase in crankcase pressure. This seemingly was accepted practice at the expense of increased oil loss via breather.
I am fitting a brand new Garrett turbo tomorrow and observe any improvement. I also used Castrol 5w-40 instead of 5w-30 but that made no difference in the past.
Do you think adding vortex might help rather than loo roll, with loo roll type filter you would always worry as it can get clogged anytime.
Will report back.
netgear2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2014, 01:47 PM   #38
netgear2
New Member
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

Phheeeeww....false alarm, turbo is fine. Oil was spilling from the rocker cover above when I added oil to the engine ...errm...without using funnel.
I have been looking at this CerTech Gel, Exxie is it any good or any harm to engine yet?
I am considering to give it a go. Not much on the internet anout this stuff. One website mentions third party lab testing and TUV approval but their own website makes no such claim. Seems like a one man team product.
netgear2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-14-2014, 07:09 AM   #39
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for that link to the part number Exxie. I was going to change the whole unit and not just the insert. Its a shame the seperator didnt really cure your issue. I have read of others who were going to change the turbo and found the intake full of oil. They then changed the ccv and fixed the problem so these ccv seem to be a problem on all bmw diesels. I have looked at fitting a catch can but there isnt much space is there? You would need to chop the end from the plastic pre formed pipe.

Ade
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-24-2014, 05:13 AM   #40
Exxie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 330d 6MT Space Grey
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Queensland

Posts: 46
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by netgear2 View Post
I have been looking at this CerTech Gel, Exxie is it any good or any harm to engine yet?
I can't say for sure as I've done a few things, but I do think it has contributed to the reduction in exhaust smoke. The engine also feels smoother overall. I'd say it's worth a shot as it doesn't cost that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ade146 View Post
I have looked at fitting a catch can but there isnt much space is there? You would need to chop the end from the plastic pre formed pipe.
Yeah, I had a go but I didn't want to permanently change anything so I just had pipes going everywhere and it looked horrendous.

I haven't checked the gas straight out of the breather since refitting the stock pipe, but I anticipate it will be reduced now as I no longer have smoke from the exhaust. Hopefully it doesn't need a catch can any more...
Exxie is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      03-25-2014, 03:58 PM   #41
ade146
Private First Class
 
Drives: E90 330d sport auto
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.Wales or Cheshire

Posts: 187
iTrader: (0)

OK I took my breather apart and sure enough just an empty box. I took it apart and found no problems with it. In addition I couldn't find any use for the orange diaphragm. At least in the BMW application this valve does not appear to do anything at all. The port on the chamber which sucks the valve open is not connected in our engines and appears to have no function.
The new breather I purchased was the cyclone type. I took the cyclone apart to find it is just a collection of plastic parts.I fitted the cyclone into the new housing and it does appear to have made a difference. Previously I could feel a very slight suction from the dipstick at idle whereas now it seems fairly neutral. It definitely smokes less at idle. Its too early to tell if it has cured oil consumption. I have tried different oil before and it didn't make much difference but I can use any oil as I am not running with a dpf.
ade146 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST