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      10-13-2013, 04:44 PM   #1
mob17
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Police ticket

Hi,

I got back from holiday yesterday and i've just been stopped by police. Reported for driving without due care and got a notice of inteded prosecution.

Basically i was a bit enthusiastic as i was without the car for 4 weeks. Police officer said because of the wet weather he has to report me. He said he couldn't clock me long enough to record my speed so i didn't get done for speeding.

I'm just after some advice depending on what i get in the post. I think it will be 3 points and a fine, or a driving course. If i go to court do i have much chance of winning, as their evidence may only be the 2 officer's statements? They may also possibly have cctv from the area. What's the best plan of action?
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      10-13-2013, 04:57 PM   #2
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When I was stopped for speeding a few years ago, I asked to see the evidence, the solo policeman said he didn't need evidence, he had a calibrated speedometer & his statement was sufficient! Good Luck
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      10-13-2013, 05:02 PM   #3
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When there is a single officer, the ball is in your court... but with 2 officers, you cannot win...

Considering the conditions... you will have problems...

Just hope it is a driving course...
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      10-13-2013, 05:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Hi,

I got back from holiday yesterday and i've just been stopped by police. Reported for driving without due care and got a notice of inteded prosecution.

Basically i was a bit enthusiastic as i was without the car for 4 weeks. Police officer said because of the wet weather he has to report me. He said he couldn't clock me long enough to record my speed so i didn't get done for speeding.

I'm just after some advice depending on what i get in the post. I think it will be 3 points and a fine, or a driving course. If i go to court do i have much chance of winning, as their evidence may only be the 2 officer's statements? They may also possibly have cctv from the area. What's the best plan of action?
Basically you should of made allowances for the road conditions owing to the wet weather, and they (Police) have judged that your speed was inappropriate.

The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is committed when the defendants driving falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver - section 3ZA(2) of the RTA 1988.

Points can be anywhere between 3 -9.

I don't think you'd stand a chance against the word of two officers, best you wait until the NIP lands on the doormat, and see what else is spelled out in terms of what the alleged offence/s are.

You won't get shot though
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      10-13-2013, 06:20 PM   #5
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A NIP isn't 3 point and 60 fine. I received a NIP once, 2 police against my word fro dangerous driving.

Luckily for me, my first solicitor was pants (wanting me to plead guilty to careless driving). But he gave me copies of both the policemens statements. I went through them piece by piece, and tore them apart. Then changed solicitor, who knew one of the witnesses (who the first solicitor couldn't be arsed to trace), and it never even went to court.

In general though, NIP means court, and court means heavier penalties. I would suggest a good solicitor. My solicitor has had words with the PF a couple times on my behalf, the first resulting in not going to court, and the second resulting in pleading guilty to a lesser speed (despite the photographic evidence), thus taking me out of the possibility of receiving a ban, and ending up with only 4 points and a 240 fine.

A good solicitor can be worth his weight in gold.
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      10-13-2013, 06:27 PM   #6
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Might be worth having a look on here:
http://www.pepipoo.com/
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      10-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
Basically you should of made allowances for the road conditions owing to the wet weather, and they (Police) have judged that your speed was inappropriate.

The offence of driving without due care and attention (careless driving) under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is committed when the defendants driving falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver - section 3ZA(2) of the RTA 1988.

Points can be anywhere between 3 -9.

I don't think you'd stand a chance against the word of two officers, best you wait until the NIP lands on the doormat, and see what else is spelled out in terms of what the alleged offence/s are.

You won't get shot though
I guess i should just accept the points, or better get the driving course. But i doubt i'll be eligible for a course as i have previous speeding convictions.

xs2man: You're scaring me! I have had 2 NIP's in the last year both for speeding. Both were 3 points and a 60 fine. So i'm hoping this is the same, or better a driving course.

A bit off topic, but has anyone heard of lawful rebellion? I've read a little and it seems a bit far fetched, but some people are convinced it works?
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      10-13-2013, 06:54 PM   #8
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Good luck man. I'm still looking for my first one. haha *knock on wood*
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      10-14-2013, 03:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
I guess i should just accept the points, or better get the driving course. But i doubt i'll be eligible for a course as i have previous speeding convictions.

xs2man: You're scaring me! I have had 2 NIP's in the last year both for speeding. Both were 3 points and a 60 fine. So i'm hoping this is the same, or better a driving course.

A bit off topic, but has anyone heard of lawful rebellion? I've read a little and it seems a bit far fetched, but some people are convinced it works?
Sorry. That's just my experience with NIP's. Others may experience different results.
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      10-14-2013, 03:17 AM   #10
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Scottish and English law is different.

It does seem that driving offences are often more lenient in England. We don't get driving awareness courses and very short bans.

Usually up here if you don't get a fixed penalty notice at the roadside, you're going to court.

If you've already got 6 points, you might be lucky to keep your licence.
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      10-14-2013, 03:48 AM   #11
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As above. The laws in Scotland are different so I would imagine xs2's experience will be almost irrelevant to the OPs. They come down hard on motorists up here.

However, I will say that with 2 NIP's and 6 points added in the last year things don;t exactly look promising for you OP. I would think at the very least you will be getting another 3 points and a fine. It's doubtful you would qualify for a speed awareness course if you've already been done twice this year.
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      10-14-2013, 04:18 AM   #12
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An NIP does NOT mean you are going to court.

You have been reported for a road traffic offence, in this case s.3 RTA due care and attention.

As a result the NIP is there to inform you of that fact and gives a 6 month window of prosecution. You're paperwork given to you will likely be a traffic offence report.

What this means is that in the next few weeks you will receive some paperwork through with options available to you based on your driving offending history (if any). These will be

a) an alternative to prosecution (a driving course based on skill or attitude whichever was the cause of your (alleged) poor driving)

b) 3 points and 100 fine

c) proceed to court

You will have to choose which option you wish to take from there.
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      10-14-2013, 04:34 AM   #13
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You won't get offered a course for CD10 - you will most likely be offered a fixed penalty but it depends on the Police. You might get a summons in which case it's worth having a solicitor, as has been said.
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      10-14-2013, 06:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon
You won't get offered a course for CD10 - you will most likely be offered a fixed penalty but it depends on the Police. You might get a summons in which case it's worth having a solicitor, as has been said.
+1
Mo, I doubt that you will be given an option to opt for awareness course.
Court and 3-5 points are very likely depending on the statements of the officers and how your solicitor presents the case?
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      10-14-2013, 06:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdzC
An NIP does NOT mean you are going to court.

You have been reported for a road traffic offence, in this case s.3 RTA due care and attention.

As a result the NIP is there to inform you of that fact and gives a 6 month window of prosecution. You're paperwork given to you will likely be a traffic offence report.

What this means is that in the next few weeks you will receive some paperwork through with options available to you based on your driving offending history (if any). These will be

a) an alternative to prosecution (a driving course based on skill or attitude whichever was the cause of your (alleged) poor driving)

b) 3 points and 100 fine

c) proceed to court

You will have to choose which option you wish to take from there.
Very interesting.
Any references to this?
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      10-14-2013, 11:47 AM   #16
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The above (traffic offence report) is what we give out in our force now (northants). We don't FPN at the roadside anymore.
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      10-14-2013, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Very interesting.
Any references to this?
What would you like to know mate?
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      10-14-2013, 12:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo666 View Post
The above (traffic offence report) is what we give out in our force now (northants). We don't FPN at the roadside anymore.
As per Lancashire. Fixed penalty for non endorsable offences with the exception of seatbelts.
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      10-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo666 View Post
The above (traffic offence report) is what we give out in our force now (northants). We don't FPN at the roadside anymore.
Is there anyone that i could speak to within northants police to argue my case for a driving course? I've always just had points and obviously not working...
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      10-14-2013, 01:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo666 View Post
The above (traffic offence report) is what we give out in our force now (northants). We don't FPN at the roadside anymore.
Is there anyone that i could speak to within northants police to argue my case for a driving course? I've always just had points and obviously not working...
Lol, nice try
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      10-15-2013, 06:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Is there anyone that i could speak to within northants police to argue my case for a driving course? I've always just had points and obviously not working...
A speed awareness course is only for speeding offenders and even then only for people slightly over the limit, as dictated by each force.

You won't get a course for any other offence I would say.

The NIP is just that a "notice of intended proseuction" it mean only that they intend to (maybe) prosecute you, nothing more nothing less.

You'll have to site tight and wait, it could be months or weeks, who knows.

I doubt you'll get a FP though (FPs are 100 now of course, not 60)

I waited nearly 6 months for a court date / summons when I got pulled for speeding at 104 in 2005.
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      10-15-2013, 07:21 AM   #22
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Hi Mo,

I haven't read all these response so apologies if someone has covered this.

I had this EXACT scenario about 9 years ago when I was 21. Driving home at midnight, slightly damp road, I drove through a 40 zone at around 60 mph.

I was pulled over the by police who explained that I would be getting an NIP for 'driving without consideration for other users of the road or place' which is an extension of careless driving basically.

Anyway, in the end I plead guilty and received 8 points for my trouble. I still don't understand to this day why they were so harsh but whatever, they were!

So my advice is - get a brief. See what they say. If they say plead guilty then do it, but do it with their support, advice and experience. That way I would say 3 points is much more likely than the 8 points I took for trying to do the right thing.

It's worth noting that if anyone has ever felt me harsh towards coppers or the justice system, it's worth bearing in mind that the copper lied on his statement and then didn't appear in court - so all the Mag could go on was the fact that the copper said he had 'pursued me at over 90 mph' which was a lie. He might have exceeded 90 miles per hour, but I had pulled over immediately and was stood waiting for them down the road.

Matt
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