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      10-19-2013, 08:19 PM   #23
solstice
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Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
I've never thought of "M" cars as "uber luxury". In fact, I'd say the interior of M cars just barely makes the cut into luxury category (however it may be defined).

Secondly, regarding driving fun, the M cars are kick-ass responsive machines....once you get them into the power range of 3,000 RPM +.

However, they have always sucked in the low end in my opinion. I'm not trolling here, I've been an original owner of both a '02 E46 M3 and currently a '11 E90 M3. The low-end power/torque leaves a lot to be desired. I think the turbos in the new F80 make the entire RPM range kick ass!
Now that's where we differ. While low end TQ can initially be seductive in the long run for me it becomes rather boring compared to an engine that starts off timid and then pulls harder and harder towards a high redline. I find diesels and electric cars with huge TQ boring. I also ride race bikes so I'm used to and prefer peaky engines.

"I've never thought of "M" cars as "uber luxury"." Me neither until the new M5 and M6. Have you driven them? They are definately uber luxurious both in appointments, options and ride. I've driven the GC, vert and coupe. Beautiful,comfy cars.

Last edited by solstice; 10-19-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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      10-19-2013, 09:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Kuwen
Please put me in the category of people who are 100% satisfied/excited with the size of the upcoming M3/M4 as it can actually be used as a car for four people.
Yup.

I just tried to put our family of four into the last available new V8 M3, the E93. It was a joke. I knew it would be tight but it wasn't even close. The E90 sedan wasn't much better when we had one for a loaner.
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      10-19-2013, 10:26 PM   #25
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What will be really great I think is that you'll have the option to drive these new M3/4's in a completely laid back way if you want, i.e. short-shifting on the torque, or go higher in the rev band for more of a thrill when you want to get on it.
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      10-19-2013, 11:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
With over 60 % of new BMW automobile sales opting for the M Sport packet I would not say brand dilution. But more as progress. M is much more a commercial entity than it was 10 years ago.
The customer has made BMW M. What it is today.
You said it...in the hiphop world, when someone says that the artist has gone "commercial", it means that they have sold out from their core values and audience and gone for mass market appeal. So, too has M---or as you may call 'commercial' for what it is, "Marketing"...

This will ultimately be M's downfall, as well as BMW.
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      10-19-2013, 11:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Now that's where we differ. While low end TQ can initially be seductive in the long run for me it becomes rather boring compared to an engine that starts off timid and then pulls harder and harder towards a high redline. I find diesels and electric cars with huge TQ boring. I also ride race bikes so I'm used to and prefer peaky engines.
Personal preference. I went from a 2007 335i to a 2008 M5 to a 2013 335i and have a good taste of low end/mid range torque vs. top end monsters.......I find the low end/mid range torque to be more enjoyable for daily driving, where you feel it every time you pass someone, accelerate from a stop light, etc.

It wasn't easy/practical to keep the M5 in the power band for daily driving, and while I did enjoy the top end pull a lot, I rarely got to use it compared to the 335i's low end/mid range. I've also driven the E9x M3 enough and also feel the same way about is as I do the M5.

I'm really looking forward to the new M3- a car that still has the nice pull down low, decent (not killer) top end, all in a lighter package.
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      10-20-2013, 01:59 AM   #28
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Well done to BMW with clever marketing. If 60% of sales have an M tag that's a big bonus to profit given the basic MSport does little more than add some beefed up bumpers, a better steering wheel, so nice wheels and slightly better seats. Net cost to BMW must be pennies over basic car but they add 10% to the price!!
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      10-20-2013, 03:15 AM   #29
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I agree -- what's dumb is how the 2014's all basically look like the E92 M3 from the front. Is there really need for the huge ass intakes for the regular 3 series? Stupid trick to look sporty. Anyway, all the 2014's will look like the E92 M3 with a few more straight lines. That definitely dilutes the look of the brand anyway. When you pay an extra $20k, you want it to look like it. Some fool driving a 320 shouldn't look like the M4. I think M5 is great and E92 M3 is great. We'll see about M4.
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      10-20-2013, 04:44 AM   #30
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You can't really say that the m135i and m235i are diluting the M brand. The m135i is loved by so many and the m235i looks great on paper. Only time will tell if it lives up to the expectations. M sport...yea that's diluting the brand but I don't blame BMW. It's called making money...on a global scale
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      10-20-2013, 06:41 AM   #31
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      10-20-2013, 08:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
And for the "this bitching happens everytime a new car comes along", maybe it does but I've driven BMWs since the 1980s and this is the first time I don't much like anything in BMWs lineup. In the past I've liked pretty much everything since the 2002.

Why don't you redline the F10 M5 and let us know whether it's peaky ... I recall you said that your last car, E60 535i was sporty and you liked it. Isn't that turbo and the redline lower? And you're not into tracking cars?

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=27

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/10/19/dt...hassis-bmw-m4/

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      10-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz26 View Post
Well done to BMW with clever marketing. If 60% of sales have an M tag that's a big bonus to profit given the basic MSport does little more than add some beefed up bumpers, a better steering wheel, so nice wheels and slightly better seats. Net cost to BMW must be pennies over basic car but they add 10% to the price!!
That's where you're wrong. The M-sport cars have additional drivetrain cooling that the other F30 335i cars don't, and are the only 335i cars that can get the PPK kit with it's extra power.

They also come with better brakes/calipers (depending on where you're at), and upgraded rear tries (255mm in the rear vs. 225mm on all other lines).

Also the only 335i line that allows you go order the gorgeous Estoril Blue II color.

I know I'm missing additional differences....
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      10-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
You said it...in the hiphop world, when someone says that the artist has gone "commercial", it means that they have sold out from their core values and audience and gone for mass market appeal. So, too has M---or as you may call 'commercial' for what it is, "Marketing"...

This will ultimately be M's downfall, as well as BMW.
Yes but in the automobile industry there is no room to remain select. You are not just aiming to appease 1 customer you have to satisfy many. That is the reason for our success. Each vehicle stands for a customer and in BMWs case the customer did not exist until the right car came along.

The current BMW portfolio is consistent. It symbolises a range of vehicles for each customer in each market either by engine type , model , vehicle segment and especially now sustainable mobility. BMW offers customers perhaps the most original driver focused vehicles on the market.

And it advises a solution to what can be a future problem especially when you consider proposals for further legislation.
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      10-20-2013, 01:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
I agree -- what's dumb is how the 2014's all basically look like the E92 M3 from the front. Is there really need for the huge ass intakes for the regular 3 series? Stupid trick to look sporty. Anyway, all the 2014's will look like the E92 M3 with a few more straight lines. That definitely dilutes the look of the brand anyway. When you pay an extra $20k, you want it to look like it. Some fool driving a 320 shouldn't look like the M4. I think M5 is great and E92 M3 is great. We'll see about M4.
This has been going on since the E46 ZHP and E39 540i M sport, hell, the E36 M3 didn't look that different from the base E36s. Just remember, what makes M exclusive is first how they drive, not how they look. Aesthetics are always important, but M never made radically different looking vehicles from the non M lineup anyways.
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      10-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #36
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all M everythanggg
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      10-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Romo View Post
the M3 is like a supertanker compared to a 1M.
Well, more like 6% heavier including driver... Yes one can feel it but that some pretty serious hyperbole.
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      10-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW offers customers perhaps the most original driver focused vehicles on the market.
Whatever BMW Marketing says...

The only way this becomes remotely true is if you add the qualifier of also having a typical German luxury and attention to details. And of course only if you eliminate Porsche and all exotics from the comparison...
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      10-20-2013, 05:48 PM   #39
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How'd we get stuck with this thread?
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      10-20-2013, 06:49 PM   #40
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I understand the OP's point. I found a 1 owner Z4m with 23k miles on it as I wanted a 2-seater "pure" sports car. something that creates a more pure, visceral driving experience. NOW, at the same time I traded my E92 M3 for an X6M as the Z4M provides me that sports cars desire(miss the S65 motor though). So I have both worlds.

I don't mind the heavier M cars we now have but BMW should not neglect the core reason for M cars. Raw driving pleasure. They have room for both.

The M2 and maybe the Z5 will focus on that basic M car.
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      10-20-2013, 08:21 PM   #41
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What we need is more options so that BMW can get relief from the more hard core driving enthusiasts and thrive in their new mass market approach without the whining from enthusiasts who feel abandoned. Porsche which is now what BMW used to be should soon provide relief in form of a smaller 4 seater where many of us can migrate just a few years from now ( those of us lucky enough to afford M cars ). Until then these kind of threads will continue since Audi, Benz and Lexus never have and likely never will be good enough alternatives.
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      10-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #42
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Porsche which is now what BMW used to be...
Your kidding, right?

Volkswagen owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT and Skoda. Very different times.
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      10-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #43
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Your kidding, right?

Volkswagen owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT and Skoda. Very different times.
What BMW cars used to be not the company. Who cares about the company, it's the cars that matters. Just a few models each the undisputable driver's choice in it's segment. I can hardly wait for the new sedan. I used to desire every BMW in the lineup just as I desire every car in Porsche's lineup. Porsche is the new BMW in my books.

Last edited by solstice; 10-20-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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      10-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #44
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What BMW cars used to be not the company. Who cares about the company, it's the cars that matters. Just a few models each the undisputable driver's choice in it's segment. I can hardly wait for the new sedan. I used to desire every BMW in the lineup just as I desire every car in Porsche's lineup. Porsche is the new BMW in my books.
I understand what your saying, but ignoring the reality of the business behind the industry is what fuels these threads.
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