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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > DPF Delete



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      11-14-2013, 04:28 PM   #67
joe_planet
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TDI, so what is the difference between the DPF and the downpipe? I mean I obviously know the dpf is the diesel particulate filter, but I'm trying to figure out how the downpipe works with all of this?
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      11-14-2013, 06:23 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_planet View Post
TDI, so what is the difference between the DPF and the downpipe? I mean I obviously know the dpf is the diesel particulate filter, but I'm trying to figure out how the downpipe works with all of this?
It would be good if Stan or Mark would join in here ...

The Ecotune "downpipe" is "optimized" to work with the Ecotune remap.

http://www.ecotune-scotland.co.uk/pr...oval_Downpipe_

The Euro version of the 335d downpipe is different than our North Armerican version. I "Took one for the Team" and sent my DPF over to Stan so he could make a version for us. However it's taking a lot longer than expected and I need my vehicle to be drivable.

From what I've been able to read, when removing the restriction of the DOC/DPF there's an issue with "over boost" where the turbo's can ramp up boost quicker than expected by the DDE and cause a "limp mode". There is evidently a lot of optimization that needs to be done to keep the turbo's healthy and the DDE happy. I plan to test this.

Here's a link where Stan talks about the issue (there are many others):

see "stant1man" and his discussions

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/65562-...estions/page-3
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      11-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
It would be good if Stan or Mark would join in here ...

The Ecotune "downpipe" is "optimized" to work with the Ecotune remap.

http://www.ecotune-scotland.co.uk/pr...oval_Downpipe_

The Euro version of the 335d downpipe is different than our North Armerican version. I "Took one for the Team" and sent my DPF over to Stan so he could make a version for us. However it's taking a lot longer than expected and I need my vehicle to be drivable.

From what I've been able to read, when removing the restriction of the DOC/DPF there's an issue with "over boost" where the turbo's can ramp up boost quicker than expected by the DDE and cause a "limp mode". There is evidently a lot of optimization that needs to be done to keep the turbo's healthy and the DDE happy. I plan to test this.

Here's a link where Stan talks about the issue (there are many others):

see "stant1man" and his discussions

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/65562-...estions/page-3
I wonder if a good alternative would be to just core out the dpf and weld it back up. That pipe looks like a piece of art work though lol. I'd love to get one..
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      11-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_planet View Post
I wonder if a good alternative would be to just core out the dpf and weld it back up. That pipe looks like a piece of art work though lol. I'd love to get one..
Stan's comment about that on post 98 in the link above (again, it would be good if Stan would directly address this):

What I can assure is that our kit has addressed all of these problems and it was physically impossible to reliably match the VNT to a knocked out or emptied DPF as the backpressure levels are inconsistant with each job... it's the standards we work to. Others may have been getting away with it but we just won't take the risk as it's not our risk to take....

I may have the ability to test this in the near future depending on what happens over the next few days.
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      11-14-2013, 08:59 PM   #71
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Also some good stuff from Stan from this site:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=778003&page=2
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      11-17-2013, 08:23 AM   #72
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Update:

Cut open and dug out the DPF, leaving the DOC in place, had it welded back together, re-installed, and did initial test drive. Spent a long, hard day doing this.

After 3 weeks of down time it was good to fire the car up again. So far so good. No codes came up, except for a "shadow code" that was also present with the Evolve remap. Leaving the DOC in place should be helping with some of the exhaust smell/emissions, and I didn't notice any visual particulates and no unusual smell from the exhaust. Was whooped and didn't do much more than gather some initial data to look at.

Want to do more testing today, but its raining and supposed to rain all day. And my kid was up from 2am vomitting over and over ... and its still going on. Not sure how much time/energy I'll have to spend on this today.
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      11-17-2013, 08:46 AM   #73
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Dont feel bad I caught the flu and I've in house for the past 4 days. Going out today its sunny 85 degrees sunny in Puerto Rico
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      11-17-2013, 01:45 PM   #74
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DPF/DEF delete progress

Hey guys, well I have been following for sometime on the progress of the delete kit and am very excited about it. If you were in Oregon and want to get this delete done on your car what would the best route be currently. I have talked with stan and marc over at ecotune in europe but that was a year ago and there was nothing available at the time for a 2009 US 335D. Thanks for all your hard work and reverse engineering hours.
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      11-17-2013, 01:51 PM   #75
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335D DPF/DEF delete

Hey has anyone heard from GMaur335d lately about his delete progress??
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      11-17-2013, 08:49 PM   #76
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Update:

So far so good.

Slowly built up to some full fueling runs after looking at the Bavarian Technic recorded data. Than added my custom stuff into the mix. Similar to the Evolve remap, the Ecotune plays well with it. Recorded the highest hp and tq numbers I've ever seen using the Android "Torque" app on the local flat roads I use as a baseline (has been very close to the Superflow dyno and 1/4 mile dragstrps .. 12.65 sec best and 110.18 mph best trap speed). Todays results are with the smaller, lower flowing, H2O/methanol injector I use for winter. Come spring when I put the bigger one in there should be another ~10-15 hp coming.

The monitored "Throttle" behavior is what I expected for an EGR off remap: Fully open all the time. This is radically different from normal behavior. However, the EGR duty cycle commanded is not zero as I expected. Feedback from Stan is that there is an internal disconnect between the EGR commanded and actual EGR utilization. I'll need to do some measuring of the actual EGR valve behavior to verify this is actually happening.
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      11-17-2013, 08:55 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseltech06 View Post
Hey guys, well I have been following for sometime on the progress of the delete kit and am very excited about it. If you were in Oregon and want to get this delete done on your car what would the best route be currently. I have talked with stan and marc over at ecotune in europe but that was a year ago and there was nothing available at the time for a 2009 US 335D. Thanks for all your hard work and reverse engineering hours.
I had an Evolve remap for a couple years. It worked well. After the latest EGR recall they forced a DDE reflash and over wrote it. Due to that I re-evaluated everything and went with something different. The results from Stan and Mark (US representative) for the US 335d are promising.
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      11-18-2013, 09:18 AM   #78
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Geoff (GMaur335d) sold his 35D near the end of May...shortly after having the DEF system disabled. He and I were using the same shop and have had similar work done...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseltech06 View Post
Hey has anyone heard from GMaur335d lately about his delete progress??
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      11-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #79
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read this topic. Good stuff regarding the EGR valve delete. I have some doubts now about doing it.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=860498&page=3
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      11-18-2013, 04:41 PM   #80
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TDIwyse,

So how does the car drives with the DPF removed? Better response?
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      11-18-2013, 05:09 PM   #81
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TDI, more importantly, is your child feeling better?
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      11-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
TDI, more importantly, is your child feeling better?
Ha! Yes, thanks.
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      11-18-2013, 06:17 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toy_soldier View Post
TDIwyse,

So how does the car drives with the DPF removed? Better response?
Good question. I try to only use quantifiable data when offering evaluations... The available data I have now is showing a quantifiable increase in higher rpm power and better EGT's. Also the mpg's are better based on the car's predicted efficiency. But have not done any hand calculated measurements to verify this.

Will hopefully be going to the same dyno this week that I did the Evolve remap comparison's. The 1/4 mile testing will have to wait until next Spring as it's closed for the Winter.

After sitting in the cold all day (high of ~40F) at work, the initial startup did have visible smoke for the first few seconds. Did not have this when the DPF was in place. However, once the DOC heats up I see no smoke and don't notice any smell.

I did a little testing on the electronic egr after work. From the initial measurements, Stan appears to be doing something I find clever ...
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      11-19-2013, 07:45 AM   #84
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dixy read the thread I live in PR so cold weather for me is NON-existing LOL
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      11-19-2013, 05:31 PM   #85
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it's not about the weather, but the difference in temperature between the two sides of the EGR intercooler if the EGR valve is closed completely.

poor design by BMW to comply with EPA and more precisely CARB states.

I don't see myself buying another diesel in the future. Way too many problems with these engines to comply with the emission standards, whereas the gassers don't go through al that trouble.
My car has been at the dealer for a month already. I don't even intend on calling them to check on the status. They can keep it as long as they want. I drive one of their brand new 428i and I like it.
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      11-20-2013, 01:08 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
PR
it's not about the weather, but the difference in temperature between the two sides of the EGR intercooler if the EGR valve is closed completely.

poor design by BMW to comply with EPA and more precisely CARB states.

I don't see myself buying another diesel in the future. Way too many problems with these engines to comply with the emission standards, whereas the gassers don't go through al that trouble.
My car has been at the dealer for a month already. I don't even intend on calling them to check on the status. They can keep it as long as they want. I drive one of their brand new 428i and I like it.
Manufacturers just have a lot more experience complying on gas engines, strict diesel requirements are fairly new in comparison. I trust it won't take long for them to catch up. Best case is they progress enough to get rid of the EGR altogether like the vast majority of gas engine designs have.
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      11-20-2013, 02:11 AM   #87
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Apparently X5 35d has a slightly different design, according to the shop foreman at the dealership where I took my in.

Emission standards will only get stricter as time passes. The manufacturers will have to come up with more restricting technology, which will also be more complex in nature and more prone to failures.
The more things you attach to the engine, the higher the risk for a failure.
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      11-20-2013, 08:45 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
I did a little testing on the electronic egr after work. From the initial measurements, Stan appears to be doing something I find clever ...
Well, yesterday I was monitoring the "pintle position" pin on the EGR valve to see if the valve was staying closed even when the DDE was calling for it to be open.

Couldn't find something like this for our valve, and our pinout isn't quite the same, but this shows what the 5 pins on the electronic EGR do/are for.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_eg...gr_valve_1.php

Unfortunately, the indication from this measurement is that the EGR is not coded out, and is still operating as it was stock. However, because the throttle valve is fully open all the time, there will still be less exhaust fumes going back into the engine due to less suction caused by having the throttle partially closed (previously the throttle would close some to help increase EGR flow when EGR % was increased).

This is a little disappointing since I was told it would be coded out. Still waiting for Stan to respond to these latest measurements of the EGR behavior.
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