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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > DPF Delete



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      11-20-2013, 10:20 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Apparently X5 35d has a slightly different design, according to the shop foreman at the dealership where I took my in.
yeah, in this case more is actually "better" for now, they have two EGRs, one of which taps after the DPF so is more soot-free

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Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Emission standards will only get stricter as time passes. The manufacturers will have to come up with more restricting technology, which will also be more complex in nature and more prone to failures.
The more things you attach to the engine, the higher the risk for a failure.
emissions will get stricter and soloutions more complex, thats pretty likely, but modern gas engines really dont have more things attached to them than early emissions cars. In most cases they have less since they dont have an EGR, dont have a smog pump, dont have any of the strange early fixes really. They manage emissions with computer controls and catalytic converters. Im not going to count electronics, DOHC, VANOS (and similar) or other items like that as DOHC first was used in 1912 and vanos was introduced in 1992 (other variable cam timing schemes were in use in cars as early as 1980) and electronics were arguably introduced for a whole selection of reasons including but definitely not limited to emissions.

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Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Unfortunately, the indication from this measurement is that the EGR is not coded out, and is still operating as it was stock. However, because the throttle valve is fully open all the time, there will still be less exhaust fumes going back into the engine due to less suction caused by having the throttle partially closed (previously the throttle would close some to help increase EGR flow when EGR % was increased).

This is a little disappointing since I was told it would be coded out. Still waiting for Stan to respond to these latest measurements of the EGR behavior.
not a good sign, hope you get that worked out. Coding EGR out/down would be the biggest reason for me to go this route, and im sure im not alone.
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      11-20-2013, 10:34 AM   #90
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I agree with what you said about gasoline cars, however they don't put out soot like diesels do. Also, the emissions are different on diesel than gasoline cars. EPA does not look at them in the same way.
Diesels have always been subjected to more emission standards than gasoline cars.

Remember the brief period when no diesel cars were sold in US back in the 90's?
Mercedes discontinued diesels starting with MY2000 till... (I can't remember exactly) maybe 2004-2005. Couldn't meet pollution requirements.

CARB states are the worst in this regard.
While different brand diesel were sold in the rest of the country, CA and a few other states did not get them.
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      11-20-2013, 11:16 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
...Diesels have always been subjected to more emission standards than gasoline cars.

Remember the brief period when no diesel cars were sold in US back in the 90's?
Mercedes discontinued diesels starting with MY2000 till... (I can't remember exactly) maybe 2004-2005. Couldn't meet pollution requirements.

CARB states are the worst in this regard.
While different brand diesel were sold in the rest of the country, CA and a few other states did not get them.
Your memory is somewhat correct, however some of these statements are demonstrably false.

In 2004 EPA implemented the Tier II rules that made the diesel emissions limits for NOx, CO and HC to be the *SAME* as for cars. Note that, until that date, diesels were much dirtier than gassers; afraid you are totally wrong on "diesels were more regulated than gassers". The Tier II standards for gassers were implemented earlier by CARB, however since then there are no essential differences between the two (for emissions of NOx and HC, while CO2 is being used by CARB as a mileage standard.)

The absence of diesels from the US market in the 2004-6 period was due to the fact that no-one could meet particulate (soot, which is a form of HC enhanced by sulfur in the combustion cycle) emissions mandated by the Tier II regs with the low-sulfur (200ppm or more) in that interim period (until ultra-low-sulfur became mandated in 2006), and no-one wanted to ship cars to the US without selling them in CA. (They could have met them with a removable DPF, but maintenance was a nightmare.)

Wikipedia has a more extensive description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...sion_standards
Also, check their article on ultra-low-sulfur.
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      11-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #92
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Damn california jajajaja
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      11-20-2013, 02:00 PM   #93
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in my defense, the diesel models were not sold here due to non compliance with emissions standards, while the same model of the same brand, gasoline version, was being sold.
same model, different engine fuel, same period of time, same country, different rules. That's how I see it.
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      11-20-2013, 02:02 PM   #94
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dixy were screwed anyway we see it.
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      11-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
yeah, in this case more is actually "better" for now, they have two EGRs, one of which taps after the DPF so is more soot-free



emissions will get stricter and soloutions more complex, thats pretty likely, but modern gas engines really dont have more things attached to them than early emissions cars. In most cases they have less since they dont have an EGR, dont have a smog pump, dont have any of the strange early fixes really. They manage emissions with computer controls and catalytic converters. Im not going to count electronics, DOHC, VANOS (and similar) or other items like that as DOHC first was used in 1912 and vanos was introduced in 1992 (other variable cam timing schemes were in use in cars as early as 1980) and electronics were arguably introduced for a whole selection of reasons including but definitely not limited to emissions.



not a good sign, hope you get that worked out. Coding EGR out/down would be the biggest reason for me to go this route, and im sure im not alone.
Agree 100%. Also placed a call to Redline Speedworx this morning and spoke to Mark. They are only a ~2 hour drive from me. Hoping to find out more about how much EGR coding is possible from Mark / Stan. TDI, keep us posted if you hear anything. Thanks.
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      11-20-2013, 08:35 PM   #96
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Got some more news.
My car is still not ready.
It also needs to have the catalytic converter replaced. That's what they said. I assume it is the DPF.
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      11-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Got some more news.
My car is still not ready.
It also needs to have the catalytic converter replaced. That's what they said. I assume it is the DPF.
There are actually two - the oxidation catalyst that is part of the DPF, and the SCR catalyst where the DEF/NOx reduction takes place. The mixer for the SCR has been a problem...
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      11-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #98
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Any chance of having a recall for these cars?
Class action suit?
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      11-21-2013, 09:13 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
There are actually two - the oxidation catalyst that is part of the DPF, and the SCR catalyst where the DEF/NOx reduction takes place. The mixer for the SCR has been a problem...
Yes, the DOC (Diesel Oxidative Catalyst) is the first part of what's inside the DPF canister. There's a gap between it and the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) where the 2nd of the 3 EGT probes goes.
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      11-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #100
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not only do I get a precise answer, I also get pictures along with it too.
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      11-22-2013, 06:54 AM   #101
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now remove yours dixy LOL
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      11-22-2013, 07:52 AM   #102
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Just an FYI For those who think the X5d EGR set up is better.

Don't forget that the X5d burns a lot more fuel so it's possible that the dual EGR is needed to bring soot concentration down to that of the 335d.
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      11-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Just an FYI For those who think the X5d EGR set up is better.

Don't forget that the X5d burns a lot more fuel so it's possible that the dual EGR is needed to bring soot concentration down to that of the 335d.

Interesting point Socom and may have validity. Here is my counter point, don't 'trucks' have looser emissions standards? Aka vehicles above x pounds? Or has CARB nullified that?
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      11-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Interesting point Socom and may have validity. Here is my counter point, don't 'trucks' have looser emissions standards? Aka vehicles above x pounds? Or has CARB nullified that?
They use DPF and SCR as well.
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      11-22-2013, 09:17 AM   #105
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yes they do the truck drivers are removing and tricking out the ECU down here in Puerto Rico
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      11-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #106
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I think it falls under a different category due to it's weight.
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      11-22-2013, 10:18 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
I think it falls under a different category due to it's weight.
The emissions requirement may differ but no doubt there's DPF and SCR. I see them during my commute daily.
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      11-22-2013, 10:30 AM   #108
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Tier II emissions standards are the same between cars and light trucks, which includes SUVs. The X5 would have to weigh a lot more or have a different use to be in a different category

Last edited by Hoooper; 11-22-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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      11-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #109
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Well, yesterday I was monitoring the "pintle position" pin on the EGR valve to see if the valve was staying closed even when the DDE was calling for it to be open.

Couldn't find something like this for our valve, and our pinout isn't quite the same, but this shows what the 5 pins on the electronic EGR do/are for.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_eg...gr_valve_1.php

Unfortunately, the indication from this measurement is that the EGR is not coded out, and is still operating as it was stock. However, because the throttle valve is fully open all the time, there will still be less exhaust fumes going back into the engine due to less suction caused by having the throttle partially closed (previously the throttle would close some to help increase EGR flow when EGR % was increased).

This is a little disappointing since I was told it would be coded out. Still waiting for Stan to respond to these latest measurements of the EGR behavior.
Well, basically he thought it should've been turned off... He suggested trying to physically blank the EGR and was positive it won't throw any codes. So, today I fabed a quick and dirty block off plate (was almost going to try using a blank or reduced opening where the cooler connects to the EGR input as shown in the upper left ... but decided to just make a plate instead).

My replacement accelerator pedal should be here tomorrow sometime so then I'll hopefully be able get the car up and running and see what happens...
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      11-24-2013, 06:19 PM   #110
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Very interested in what you find TDI! Question, why not blank the inlet from the exhaust manifold instead so as to minimize risk of hot spots that may crack the EGR cooler? Or am I mistaken with that thought process?
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