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      10-29-2013, 01:37 PM   #1
Dickisafc
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House renovation advise

Hello

Me and my dad are looking at getting our first house to renovate and sell on mainly as a project for myself after finishing Uni as a quantity surveyor. We are thinking of buying a house for say 100000 and adding a 2 story extension for 30000 just wondering if anyone has any experience of doing similar I have been doing quite a bit of research
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      10-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #2
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That's some question for a car forum! Not the best place really to do some research.

Location questions:

Is the area on it's way up, on it's way down, or already high.

Will your extension make the house one of the best (dearest) on the street? If so, don't do it, you won't get the full value back.

If the house needs modernised, how much will titillating the existing house cost?
Find out if planning permission will be granted for the extension before you buy.
Do you, or family know builders and tradesmen whom you can trust to do a decent job for you or would you be paying a contractor to do it all.
Bear in mind that any academic learning on quantity surveying you have, will be virtually useless in carrying out the project. Only any practical experience you have will be of any use. (An independent sparkie isn't going to be interested in the JCT - or any other contract.)
Insurances both on the building and on the construction work. Who supplies - 'cos don't expect jobbing builders and freelance tradesmen to have any at all.
I assume a building warrant will be required. Make sure that all the certificates you will require (electric, gas supply etc.) can actually be supplied by the companies/individuals carrying out the work.

Permissions from neighbours, rights of way, skip parking permits, the list goes on and on. If you are a total newbie to it, it will be daunting.
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      10-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #3
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I would suggest that adding an extension wouldn't be cost effective, even if you do most of the work yourself.
Tittilation is the way to gain value from a house, especially an older one, but of course an older property can hide some expensive nightmares.
Victorian terraces (if you can find one in disrepair!) can often benefit from a loft conversion, especially if the roof is already knackered. Look for other ones on the street as an indication of if the Council are sympathetic to this type of conversion - often they will only agree if the window is on the rear elevation.

As a QS, you will know that the initial figure you calculate will be half the actual money you spend.
Also, Architect's don't live on this planet, but spend all their time watching Kevin Whatisface on Location Location etc, so have no practical idea of what a house would benefit from. As an extreme example of this, some years ago, I visited Windsor Castle (as a tourist!!), and they had an exhibition of proposals to rebuild after the fire. There were some basic proviso's - half contemporary build, half period build, not above a certain height. Now, you would think that big architects would want Windsor Castle on their portfolio, but MOST of the proposals were rejected because they didn't meet one or all of those basic limitations. Arrogance? stupidity? who knows?? My own personal experience with architects is similar. Apologies to any architects reading - I'm sure there are good ones out there!!

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      10-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #4
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Yes i realise it's a car forum however it is a general discussions page lol. My dad is an electrician and also gas engineer so can do that my girlfriends brother is a plumber. As for house it it a semi detached with the majority in the street having such an extension on one sold last year for 170,000 with similar to my proposal it is at the bottom of out street so we are ok with skips accessibility etc.

We know it will be a challenge although how are you suppose to learn if you don't try we all have to be a newby at something
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      10-29-2013, 09:05 PM   #5
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Well, you've answered a lot of my questions already and avoided all my illustrative pit-falls so I don't see a lot of problems for you apart from the routine run of the mill problems that are part and parcel of doing this sort of thing.

The good bits for you are that other houses in the same street have the same type of extension and that family and friends are a source for a lot of the building work.

Mind you, if you had mentioned some of that in your first post I would have assumed that you were posting for a chat about it rather than assuming, as I did, that you might actually be looking for guidance.

So, chat. It sounds like a really good way to cut your teeth on the subject, for the reasons you have given. Some of the biggest nightmares involve the red tape around the extension which doesn't sound like a problem unless you want one that's really different (size, appearance) to the other houses. A lot of your crucial trades will be done by trustworthy people and there is decent site access as well.

I'm sitting here trying to invent a "what could go wrong" scenario that would blow the budget to pieces but I can't think of anything other than some sort of expensive fault to the existing building - and I don't mean the start of rot or rising damp, both of which are usually easily sorted - but more subsidence or signs of structural cracking but these would have been/will be picked up prior to buying the house so all I can say is have a nice time with all the itty bitty problems like materials not arriving in time, neighbours filling your skip, and so on.
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      10-30-2013, 04:30 AM   #6
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Just expect to discover that certain people aren't as reliable as you expected, their work isn't as good as they told you and friendships to suffer. Also expect the budget to creep eating into any profit and finally don't forget to work in the fees and commission for selling which will near enough wipe out any profit you stand to make.... oh, and don't forget to the subsequent years of hassle for your father from a moody neighbour who has bought the house and finds issue with some of the work as the years go by.

It is worth doing once though..... but never again.
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      10-30-2013, 05:16 AM   #7
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Yes sorry for any confusion. There are always going to be risks however we are trying to minimise any if we can by not rushing into a project in terms of people using the skips we have a 10ft trailer so will be using that which I believe will save a 1000 at least. I take it you are a qs yourself I would have gone into that after my degree however all companies wanted experience which I do not have I am hopeful that this venture we enable me to make a carrier out of renovations but I am aware I will not suddenly become a millionaire through it haha
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      10-30-2013, 05:17 AM   #8
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If other houses are going for 170k with a little extension, and you bought this house for 100k it probably means you could give it a nice lick of paint, sort out the CH if without, new cheap kitchen, then sell it on quickly making your 20k with no effort or hassle. Messing about with planning and builders, which I guess you couldn't do without if it's two floors, will probably mean more pain, cost and time and ultimately less profit. However, if it's a training exercise to turn yourself from a QS to a builder then go for it!
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      10-30-2013, 05:20 AM   #9
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Sorry not got much to add to this thread except I am shocked that you can even buy a house, let alone a semi-detached for 100k!! That wouldn't buy you a garage in London

I will add that I recently renovated a house and went 30% over budget and could have easily been much more if I wasn't careful and this despite thinking I'd built in plenty of overspend room into the budget in the first place!
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      10-30-2013, 06:30 AM   #10
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First thing to do is figure out how you're going to fund it.

Banks aren't lending at the moment, so unless you get the place for a bargain and /or have a shitload of equity or capital of your own, you'll be unlikely to get any funds from the bank.

It's the problem I'm having at the moment trying to do an extension on our place.
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      10-30-2013, 06:51 AM   #11
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Haha that's the advantage of living in Sunderland. I understand what people are saying about not putting an extension and trying to flip it quickly but my dad is keen for the extension I would prefer not to for my first project. In terms of is it worth doing I guess ask me once it's finished haha although we have not actually made an offer yet
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      10-30-2013, 06:56 AM   #12
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I have been involved in this kind of thing in the past. Adding a room is a sure fire way to add value. My one and only tip is this. remember this is business and not for you personally. Do it to a good/high standard, yet make sure the head rules not the heart based on what you would like. Many first timers biggest mistake. You are not doing it for you, its for whoever wants it, make the finish generic to increase your market place.
I am sure you know all this anyway, but its the difference of how far over budget you go. Things like do you really need to spend that extra few pounds per metre on the kitchen work top just because you prefer it!

Not a lot of help, but it was something I was once told from an old hat at it and it worked for me.
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      10-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #13
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No it's all a great help any info you are able to give me Is excellent.
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      10-30-2013, 12:27 PM   #14
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^

Which area is it, I'm in Washington.
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      10-30-2013, 12:49 PM   #15
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Wish our 2 storey extension had only cost 30k....... I'd still have my Lotus then!!!
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      10-30-2013, 02:40 PM   #16
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It's seaburn / Fulwell mate. I went to college at st Roberts in washington
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      10-30-2013, 02:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickisafc View Post
It's seaburn / Fulwell mate. I went to college at st Roberts in washington
I went to Biddick, ufortunately.
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      10-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #18
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The extension should bring in the cash and is a worthwhile extra to do.

Firstly, the extension is common in the street, therefore popular, and will be attractive to buyers so provided you can stick to an extension cost of 30k, it will be fine. It looks to me from what you've posted, that family/friends/contacts will be doing quite a lot of the work which means that the 30k budget is achievable.

Yes, I am a QS, long time. From the point of view of experience in getting a QS job, doing this project would allow you to stick the following items in your CV (even better if you end up doing more than one of them):
Billing, schedules of material quantities, supplier and contractor procurement, specification drafting, cost control, public authority liaison, payments, project management, preparation of funding options, risk evaluation, property development, project reports, end of life costs and end of life value reconciliation, earned value analysis and marketing.

All legitimate things to say in a C.V. As a by the by, are you on SMM7 at Uni or have you moved on to NRM2?
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      10-31-2013, 03:19 AM   #19
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Cheers for the advise we used smm7 and also cesmm as a comparison for one module. Although I left one year ago so may have been updated. Tbh I preferred cesmm however it is not as clear and detailed in found.

There are currently 3 houses within a mile radius going for the same price all vacant and in need of restoration so I take it people have passed away there. We are in the process of arranging viewing for them all and I am making spreadsheets to compare as well as houses for sale within the streets and houses that have sold.

One estate agent told me it would be 2 weeks before I could view one as I needed around 5pm surely they know people are working during the day
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