E90Post
 


GTB Performance
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > Like Changing Tides - More Suspension Rambling



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-30-2013, 04:25 AM   #1
RagingKileak
Brigadier General
 
Drives: Modified Alpine White E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Yorkshire

Posts: 4,629
iTrader: (2)

Like Changing Tides - More Suspension Rambling

Hello all,

I am sure you're all very aware of my recent and public desire to tinker with the suspension on my 335i Coupe, which culminated in the recent decision to pursue a kit from Ohlins with a fair bit of determination.

Since making the decision to look for Ohlins however (as recently as Monday) I must admit I've been getting more and more dissapointed with deals (or complete lack of) available. Every UK dealer has quoted the same price of 1881 inc VAT, which (including fitting) will be well north of 2000 and probably close to 2500 if I want to spend a few hours setting it up.

This has led me to reconsider my position a little bit once again and I am now really, genuinely torn to pieces about what to do for the best.

The way I see it (excluding leaving the car alone) I have three options, each with pros and cons.

Option 1 - Birds B3 - 1000

Ironically, based on the current GB price (which I know won't last long) this is the cheapest kit here. I say ironically because I have previously found Birds to be expensive, but to be fair to him on this occasion, Kevin has cut his price DEEP and certainly his willingness to do us a deal makes me keen.

Pros:
Cheapest price
Well respected kit
Supposedly good for all uses (perhaps with a focus on the road rather than track)
Decent, UK based aftersales

Cons
Not adjustable
Known reliability issues with Bilstein parts

Option 2 - KW V3 Inox - 1300

I can't help thinking about the KW V3 kit again and again as the halfway house between the Ohlins and Birds options. This kit is as adjustable as the Ohlins kit and is generally well regarded by everyone who uses it, not to mention some of the leading racing teams out there (albeit not the same part, but KW nonetheless.) The usual price for this kit is closer to 1500 and the supplier I have found is just around the corner, which is a major benefit for me.

Pros
Good price for the kit
Fully adjustable
Very well regarded setup
Local supplier

Cons
No precedent - few (if any) E92 335i reviews available
Expensive to setup
Unknown outcome in terms of ride quality/performance
Does adjustability come at the cost of unneccessary complexity?

Option 3 - Ohlins R&T - 1900

The Ohlins kit is undoubtedly the one I want if all things were equal. What I am really asking myself here is, assuming I did want adjustability, is the DFV technology with 600 MORE than the KW setup. I should also mention that I feel a bit down about Ohlins. I like a free market economy where competition is encouraged - Ohlins are clearly preventing this because European suppliers are not willing (read: able) to ship to the UK, and all UK suppliers are quoting the same price to the penny. That annoys me.

Pros
I've been in 2 cars fitted with this kit around the Nurburgring. I have many reccomendations. I don't think there is any doubt that it is the 'best' kit.
Excellent ride
Great track capability
Fully adjustable

Cons
Offensive price
Expensive to setup
No 'truly' local supplier or relationship in the event of problems
Again, adjustability may lead to unneccesary complexity for me

And there you have it. My thoughts on a single sheet of paper. This thread really is as much for myself as it is to ask advice. It's one of those situations where there is no right or wrong answer.

I honestly don't forsee myself buying the Ohlins kit at full price. It's just not my style to do that. If I don't feel like I am getting a deal, I always walk away and Ohlins is currently lagging in last place in terms of how keen the suppliers are to work with me. Birds are leading on that front, but at the same time, KW has snuck in there because it essentially offers 90% of what the Ohlins kit offers, but for significantly less money.

What a maddening situation. I blame Mo for making me think about suspension at all. Omar for getting a Group Buy on the Birds kit (well done Omar) and Marcel and Lars for confirming that the Ohlins kit is actually the best. Perhaps again, this is why I am keen on the KW V3 - because if I buy that, it will be MY adventure and I can make mistakes (or find success) off my own back.

Feeling philosophical. Help!

Matt
RagingKileak is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 04:57 AM   #2
omaragha
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 335i DCT E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Windsor, UK

Posts: 1,858
iTrader: (4)

__________________
Engine Mods: JB4 G5 ISO, Wedge Flash, BMS DCI, ETS FMIC, ER CP, AR Catless DP's, BMS OCC, BMS Cowel filters & Forge DV's.
Running Gear Mods: Graphite Atomic CSL's, Birds B3 Suspension, Stoptech Grooved Rotors & Yellow Stuff pads.
Cosmetic: Performance Grill and Diffuser, Carbon Badges, Carbon Interior
omaragha is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 05:06 AM   #3
P 5UML
Lieutenant Colonel
 
P 5UML's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 325D M Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London

Posts: 1,541
iTrader: (1)

lol...

honestly mate, i know i will probably get a bashing for this but a few of us are on the BC coilovers and when set up properly! wow they are brilliant, fully adjustable and really allow you to chuck the car around in confidence...perfectly set up and a really good driving experience.

me, sam, Theivs (project touring) achu, tyso and safety james are all using them and as far as i know no complaints from any of us...

it is seriously worth considering for an option of under 700 - if you are ever near heathrow let me know, il be more than happy to take you for a spin!

other options are most likely much better but i guess it depends what you are looking for and the price you want to pay...

but i am happy with them
__________________
P 5UML is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 05:31 AM   #4
Josh1a1h
Banned
 
Drives: AzuriteBlack 335i E92
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central North to West London

Posts: 3,836
iTrader: (2)

Lol Sumil i mentioned this option a while back and got laughed at. But tbh i knew i was asking for it.

At the end of the day.. BC are a cheap but decent option if you want a set of coils with the bells and whistles.

These lads wants the best though...maybe something more capable for the track as most hate the idea of bringing BCs on a track.

Back to the topic

I believe height adjustability and damping adjustability are crucial when spending this kind of money.

Unless you are a true Track Whore then i wouldn't bother with the Ohlins. Just because of the price.

Everyone knows the KW V3s are a high quality piece of kit. No question there. Very very good for track use once you set the damping for track use and also very forgiving on the streets once you soften up the ride too.
It is WIN WIN
They are great quality and perfect for UK Salty roads too.

There is no denying Birds is a great piece of kit for UK Roads... maybe as it is a bit more forgiving... and in order to be a bit more forgiving it sits as high as an eibach spring setup which IMO is not enough of a drop if you are ALSO looking for aesthetics.

KW V3 Gets my vote!!!! They are not to be sniffed at and are highly recommended by everyone who has them
Josh1a1h is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #5
P 5UML
Lieutenant Colonel
 
P 5UML's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 325D M Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London

Posts: 1,541
iTrader: (1)

yea you are right Josh...

my first pick if money was no object would definitely be the KW's i wouldn't even question it...

but thought id have to put my positive spin on the BC's lol! Theivs took his touring to the ring and he loved it!....

but yea out of the 3 choices posted my vote would go KW's
__________________
P 5UML is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #6
ashmostro
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ashmostro's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 335is DCT
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vienna, VA

Posts: 1,682
iTrader: (9)

While I prefer the Ohlins, that would only be if you convert to properly-balanced springs as the ones that come stock on it are not really tuned right.

Have you considered the KW Street Comfort? Much better spring setup (than the V3) and easier to tune since it's only rebound adjustable. Not designed for slamming to the ground either, so it will actually handle *and* feel good.
__________________
2013 335is DCT -- Quaife | JRZ RS1 - 450/800# | M3 + Hardrace arms | e93 M3 + Hotchkis f/r sways | BMS CP + OCC | ETS 5" IC | AFE DP's + DCI | RB PCV + Thermo Delete | Setrab + Improved Racing oil cooling | Stoptech f+r BBK | Cobb BQ Tune

ashmostro is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 06:40 AM   #7
Digitalize
Photographer
 
Digitalize's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 320D M Sport TiAg
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Weymouth

Posts: 880
iTrader: (0)

I'd either go Birds or BCs tbh. Why do you need 2k worth of coilovers, are you chasing lap times?
Digitalize is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 07:20 AM   #8
Nobber
First Lieutenant
 
Nobber's Avatar
 
Drives: 'That' 335i Touring
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Newbury - Berks

Posts: 346
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by P 5UML View Post
yea you are right Josh...

my first pick if money was no object would definitely be the KW's i wouldn't even question it...

but thought id have to put my positive spin on the BC's lol! Theivs took his touring to the ring and he loved it!....

but yea out of the 3 choices posted my vote would go KW's
Any links to where I can get a set of the BC coils from please?

Edit: The BC Website doesn't seem to list the touring either, any ideas if they do a set or will the saloon version work?
Nobber is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 09:19 AM   #9
P 5UML
Lieutenant Colonel
 
P 5UML's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92 325D M Sport
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London

Posts: 1,541
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobber View Post
Any links to where I can get a set of the BC coils from please?

Edit: The BC Website doesn't seem to list the touring either, any ideas if they do a set or will the saloon version work?
PM'd you mate
__________________
P 5UML is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #10
creepy coupe
Major General
 
creepy coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 8,173
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 335i  [0.00]
I've not heard a bad thing about KW.

Ohlins is just too expensive IMHO

Birds. you've answered for yourself.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
Current car. M235i
Previous.M135i. 635d Coupe, E92 M3 manual, E93 M3 DCT Competition Pack. E92 335i, Porsche Cayman S Gen2, 135i Coupe. E92 320d, MK5 R32. MK5 Golf GTi,MK5 Golf GT-TDI,E46 318Ci.
creepy coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #11
Nobber
First Lieutenant
 
Nobber's Avatar
 
Drives: 'That' 335i Touring
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Newbury - Berks

Posts: 346
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by P 5UML View Post
PM'd you mate
Thanks mate. Appreciate that.

I've run KW V3's on 3 different cars in the past and have to say when setup correctly they are sublime. I think a lot of coils is all about the setup and finding someone who knows what they are doing is essential.
Nobber is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #12
mob17
Brigadier General
 
mob17's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335D
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: East Middle Land, UK

Posts: 3,750
iTrader: (4)

Lol Matt, i'll get the popcorn out

How can you say no to interest free credit on the Ohlins. Doesn't that ease the pain even a little bit?

Another thought, if you speak to that French supplier about buying more than one kit, then might be worth someone going down to pick them up, at maybe an even cheaper price?
__________________
2008 E92 335D SE
2010 E90 320D SE
1994 E36 318I SE
1996 E36 316I SE
mob17 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 03:12 PM   #13
zltm089
Major General
 
zltm089's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i SE Coupe Space Grey
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: LONDON

Posts: 7,397
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Ohlins! Lars and Marcel have got one of the best 335is on here!....tested on the ring itself! lol...
__________________

Current Car: E92 335i SE Dream Cars: AMG SL65 Black,GallardoSuperleggera, GTR 2012, Agera R, F430 Scuderia, DBS, EVO X FQ400, Lexus LFA, F10 M5, M4, GT3 RS4.0, Ferrari 458, Ferrari F12, R8 V10 plus, Jaguar F Type V8, Lamborghini LP700-4 Aventador, Chevrolet Camaro ZL1, C63 AMG Coupe Black, Vanquish 2012, Laferrari, GT3 991, McLaren 650s.
zltm089 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 03:22 PM   #14
mob17
Brigadier General
 
mob17's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335D
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: East Middle Land, UK

Posts: 3,750
iTrader: (4)

There's a member on here called Phil325i who has the Ohlins. He does no tracking. Might be worth him having his say and maybe offering you a ride if he's close to you.
__________________
2008 E92 335D SE
2010 E90 320D SE
1994 E36 318I SE
1996 E36 316I SE
mob17 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 04:24 AM   #15
RagingKileak
Brigadier General
 
Drives: Modified Alpine White E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Yorkshire

Posts: 4,629
iTrader: (2)

Gents,

Thanks for the replies.

Regarding the Ohlins - there's no question about whether they are the 'best' or not - they are. I've probably spent more time in cars with that kit than any other and I am totally cool with what they offer. What I'm not cool with is the price, whether interest free or not - I honestly don't think it can be justified. If I could just get a deal - 200 or something then it would swing me, but I do not like to feel ripped off and that's just where I am with the Ohlins right now.

A 10% GB might be possible with 5 orders, but that is nigh on impossible to achieve. It was attempted by Dino over on M3 Cutters and if he can get nowhere, then we have even less chance.

The KW's, I am definitely interested in. What concerns me is that they are an unknown quantity in respect to E92 applications - no one seems to have them. The only discussion I have had about them came down the person I was speaking to suggesting to me that the spring rates were bonkers and that one of his customers had made his car lethal in bad conditions. True? I dunno.

Birds. Well, you don't hear any of their actual customers complaining, but I am not 100% convinced yet.

Matt
RagingKileak is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 06:22 AM   #16
ashmostro
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ashmostro's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 335is DCT
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vienna, VA

Posts: 1,682
iTrader: (9)

Another truly excellent and well-priced option you might want to consider is TC Kline Racing. But I'm not sure what their distribution is into the UK...

As for KW, there are a lot of users on this forum stateside that run them. Take a look at the Street Comfort recommendation I made earlier and do a search. Several threads on here for them.

Personally, I run AST and am very, very pleased.
__________________
2013 335is DCT -- Quaife | JRZ RS1 - 450/800# | M3 + Hardrace arms | e93 M3 + Hotchkis f/r sways | BMS CP + OCC | ETS 5" IC | AFE DP's + DCI | RB PCV + Thermo Delete | Setrab + Improved Racing oil cooling | Stoptech f+r BBK | Cobb BQ Tune

ashmostro is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 07:12 AM   #17
omaragha
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 335i DCT E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Windsor, UK

Posts: 1,858
iTrader: (4)

Take a look at the Suspension forum - ive seen a few peeps talking KW's.

Although a happy Birds customer (as you know) here !! Its getting better by the day (or my confidence is) !!!
__________________
Engine Mods: JB4 G5 ISO, Wedge Flash, BMS DCI, ETS FMIC, ER CP, AR Catless DP's, BMS OCC, BMS Cowel filters & Forge DV's.
Running Gear Mods: Graphite Atomic CSL's, Birds B3 Suspension, Stoptech Grooved Rotors & Yellow Stuff pads.
Cosmetic: Performance Grill and Diffuser, Carbon Badges, Carbon Interior
omaragha is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 12:40 PM   #18
Phil325i
Major
 
Phil325i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 325i MSport Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK South East

Posts: 1,133
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
While I prefer the Ohlins, that would only be if you convert to properly-balanced springs as the ones that come stock on it are not really tuned right.
Really? What springs are you running then?
__________________
E92 pre-LCI 325i - Ohlins R&T; H&R spacers; M3 strut brace; Meyle HD droplinks; BMS clutch stop; BMS CDV; RE g/box mounts; Saikoumichi OCC; K&N; Cyba scoops; BMW Perf Exhaust; M3 rear spoiler; M3 white dash LEDs; LED Angels; BMW Perf black grille; CSL reps; SSDD carbon diffuser; Monster Wrap black roof
Phil325i is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 01:00 PM   #19
surrey 335i
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335i coupe manual and 325d E91
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: surrey

Posts: 229
iTrader: (0)

Bilstein has such a good reputation for good quality I wouldnt buy anything else unless you have first had experience testing it on a 335 and you liked it enough to buy.

For years race and rally teams have opted for Bilstein.

Bilsteins transform cars like the Impreza and Evo, (the P1 had prodrive spec'd Bilsteins
and the ride was better than any other Impreza) and the Evo 8 MR models onwards had bilsteins and the car was transformed how it drove compared to pre MR models.

For a road car with all round ability its a sensible, reliable cost effective choice.
surrey 335i is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2013, 03:25 PM   #20
ashmostro
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ashmostro's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 335is DCT
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vienna, VA

Posts: 1,682
iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil325i View Post
Really? What springs are you running then?
I'm running 450#/800# on ASTs, which is a common ratio of front to rear rates.

The ohlins are known to have a weird ratio... the rear is very soft.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891620

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604381
__________________
2013 335is DCT -- Quaife | JRZ RS1 - 450/800# | M3 + Hardrace arms | e93 M3 + Hotchkis f/r sways | BMS CP + OCC | ETS 5" IC | AFE DP's + DCI | RB PCV + Thermo Delete | Setrab + Improved Racing oil cooling | Stoptech f+r BBK | Cobb BQ Tune

ashmostro is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-01-2013, 08:13 PM   #21
Techevo
Evo Junkie
 
Drives: E91 325D M-Sport, Evo 6
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bedford, UK

Posts: 119
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalize View Post
I'd go BCs tbh. Why do you need 2k worth of coilovers, are you chasing lap times?
These sort of comments really make me chuckle!

Because 2k of Ohlins suspension absolutely transforms the car on the road. The road is where suspension does most work, and this is where decent stuff really makes the difference and is night and day compared with cheap chinese rubbish like BC.

Compare a bumpy B road to Silverstone circuit. Of these, where do you think the suspension will do most work? The road is where you do need decent suspension, unless you want to ruin your ride comfort and handling.

BC? Utter rubbish. BC's may look nice on the outside (this is where most of the budget went) but the budget should be spent on the internal stuff where it counts.

Have you seen a dyno graph from the so called matched dampers out of a BC kit? Horrendous. How about internal bearing design, or not as the case maybe, meaning as soon as there are side loads due to the macpherson strut design, stiction goes through the roof. Oil viscosity to temp ratio? Rats piss comes to mind.
__________________
Ohlins DFV with 400/800 Swifts // M3 arms and bushes // H&R anti-roll bars // Modified top mounts allowing -1.5 deg front camber // 19" MORR VS8.2 // 235/265 Pilot Super Sports // Evolve remap.
Techevo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-02-2013, 05:14 AM   #22
RagingKileak
Brigadier General
 
Drives: Modified Alpine White E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Yorkshire

Posts: 4,629
iTrader: (2)

It's fair to say I've never considered BC to be in the running!

Matt
RagingKileak is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST