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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335d Ownership Strategy



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      11-20-2013, 06:48 PM   #23
ficklerx
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what % of our 335D's will have carbon buildup issues?
The following is anecdotal and by no means statistically significant but revelant. My dealer has stated that they service 10-12 diesels. No breakdown between 3s and Xs. Four have required repair for carbon build up. Mine has been there for a month and was the third currently in for repair. One has since been repaired after 3 months in the shop.

Extrapolating the numbers is difficult with a small size, but I would guess between 10% and 20%.

I hate the F30 loaners!
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      11-20-2013, 07:18 PM   #24
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I hope you are right, cause I will take those odds.
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      11-20-2013, 07:28 PM   #25
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Have a friend that has his head off and decarbed under warranty aswell. Thought the D would be more reliable! Such a shame bmw smh
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      11-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #26
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The following is anecdotal and by no means statistically significant but revelant. My dealer has stated that they service 10-12 diesels. No breakdown between 3s and Xs. Four have required repair for carbon build up. Mine has been there for a month and was the third currently in for repair. One has since been repaired after 3 months in the shop.

Extrapolating the numbers is difficult with a small size, but I would guess between 10% and 20%.

I hate the F30 loaners!
I still have mine in the shop. It's been a month already.

I got a phone call today from the SA, they need to replace the catalytic convertor. I think she meant the DPF. Not sure though.
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      11-20-2013, 08:28 PM   #27
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I think it would be the other way around here. 10%-20% will not have these problems. As all these cars are approaching 50k-60k miles they will have different emission related issues if they were driven conservatively... which one would associate with a diesel.
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      11-20-2013, 10:14 PM   #28
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I think it would be the other way around here. 10%-20% will not have these problems. As all these cars are approaching 50k-60k miles they will have different emission related issues if they were driven conservatively... which one would associate with a diesel.
Conservatively? Not. Diesels have always been known to need to be driven at full load. This is not news. I'm on my 5th diesel, the 4th direct injection, 2nd common rail with no carbon buildup issues with the previous 3 and lots of miles on them. Hopefully the BMW won't disappoint, but I can understand the angst people are feeling with how the 335d's are being serviced.
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      11-20-2013, 11:07 PM   #29
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I don't think we will ever see diesel taxis at 1 million miles.
These engines self district when run at idle.
All pre common rail diesels were bullet proof. Now we're all trying to come up with way to canibalise the exhaust and emissions system in order to make them more like the old diesels. Get rid of the EGR, DPF, DEF, etc.
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      11-20-2013, 11:41 PM   #30
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Greek cab driver hits 1 million kms with 2003 Mercedes-Benz E-Class

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I don't think we will ever see diesel taxis at 1 million miles.
These engines self district when run at idle.
All pre common rail diesels were bullet proof. Now we're all trying to come up with way to canibalise the exhaust and emissions system in order to make them more like the old diesels. Get rid of the EGR, DPF, DEF, etc.
When I sold my 2005 E320 CDI at 203,000 miles it drove like new, very tight. Had one fuel injector replaced, had a minor lifter tick that's it as far as the engine was concerned.

Not sure where you get your information, but BMW's are not known for longevity, Mercedes are. Diesels are particularly efficient at idle. Agree that tightened emissions regs make it more of a challenge, but gasoline engines are also more complex for the same reasons. Hybrids are the same, but are even more economical as taxis.

Greek cab driver hits 1 million kms with 2003 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
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      11-21-2013, 12:02 AM   #31
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Now you're telling me about BMW's longevity?
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      11-21-2013, 12:03 AM   #32
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How about 4.6 million kilometers?

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      11-21-2013, 12:14 AM   #33
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Now you're telling me about BMW's longevity?
BMW is more a company that pushes the envelope of engine design. Its not like Mercedes Benz where cars are generally over-engineered but don't exactly perform as well.

What we can expect from "new" emissions regulations is what we may be observing in some of the problems reported here, but some of this may be from how the cars are designed.

I believe that in general, cars are better than they used to be due to improved materials, modular production, and new discoveries in design. The undiscovered problems are likely due to some of the new designs made to adhere to unreasonable government regulations, brought mostly from California legislators and their war against NOx smog pollution, which happens almost exclusively in the Los Angeles basin.

Its believable that even in pre-industrial times, the air was all polluted there from the fires that Native Americans used because of the geographic "bowl" effect of the mountain range, but I'm only citing third hand conjecture here.

The idea that only 10% of cars will go free of problems is a bit exaggerated IMO. Most believe getting the extended warranty in the case of the 335d is a smart move, it seems.

Cheers.
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      11-21-2013, 12:53 AM   #34
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Luckily BMW covers emissions up to 70k miles.
In the case of injectors failure, that wouldn't be covered.
I think that would be the last thing on my car that needs to be replaced and I have a brand new car.

I need to look into extended warranty for my car. It truly needs it.
I am not sure how that would play in with an EGR valve delete.
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      11-21-2013, 10:55 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Conservatively? Not. Diesels have always been known to need to be driven at full load. This is not news. I'm on my 5th diesel, the 4th direct injection, 2nd common rail with no carbon buildup issues with the previous 3 and lots of miles on them. Hopefully the BMW won't disappoint, but I can understand the angst people are feeling with how the 335d's are being serviced.
I can assure you that even if you run your 335d HARD all the time and you put the best fuel, you will have trouble with carbon build up close to 60,000 miles (100,000 km).

My car is at the dealer right now and the mecanic guy told me its a design flaw and the trouble will be there again in 100,000 km.
The head is cleanable this time but the intake is black order for minimum 2 weeks... So 1 month for me with a X1 loaner
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      11-21-2013, 11:00 AM   #36
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At least I have an M Sport 328 loaner.
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      11-21-2013, 11:45 AM   #37
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I can assure you that even if you run your 335d HARD all the time and you put the best fuel, you will have trouble with carbon build up close to 60,000 miles (100,000 km).(
Im at 70k, no significant carbon buildup. Confirmed with a visual check personally. One size fits all doesnt apply here, though it applies better here than it usually does

I still need to pull my intake to see if the methanol has been cleaning at all. My mileage has been consistently getting better since the installation of meth (up 2-3 MPG average) which seems like it would be a good sign to me.
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      11-21-2013, 12:29 PM   #38
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Im at 70k, no significant carbon buildup. Confirmed with a visual check personally. One size fits all doesnt apply here, though it applies better here than it usually does

I still need to pull my intake to see if the methanol has been cleaning at all. My mileage has been consistently getting better since the installation of meth (up 2-3 MPG average) which seems like it would be a good sign to me.
My car have no sign of carbon build up.
Only a light for injector. The car run strong 13.1 on the 1/4.
The elbow before the intake was clean.
Check the compression , ira the best to see if you have carbon build up.

The meth is a possible help for sure
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      11-21-2013, 12:46 PM   #39
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My car have no sign of carbon build up.
Only a light for injector. The car run strong 13.1 on the 1/4.
The elbow before the intake was clean.
Check the compression , ira the best to see if you have carbon build up.

The meth is a possible help for sure
my engine is visibly "clean", I pulled the manifold off and checked including down the runners. Not as clean as I would like but its certainly not an issue. If the buildup continues at the same rate it wouldnt become a problem until well over 100k miles.
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      11-21-2013, 01:09 PM   #40
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Given the idea that many on this forum with problems seemed to have had them fixed with a DDE replacement, perhaps the real difference is in the programming. Its plausible that control over the combustion/EGR process has the biggest effect on whether or not carbon buildup occurs.

Having worked with computers since they came on the market, it seems very likely to me that errors will occur when complex processes are being monitored and controlled. Does anyone know how the programming works and how to tell its performing properly?
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      11-21-2013, 01:50 PM   #41
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Pierre
My dealer supposedly reflashed the ecu after changing the back pressure sensor. I hope the system will work better as a whole now. I have no idea now if the trouble I had so far is due to a bug in the software or not by not processing the data correctly or sending the correct info to the DPF for regen process.
It is hard for me to tell what happened. The reality is that many cars suffer from all these issues mentioned here. More than a coincidence.
BMW lost me as a return customer.
You just made the case for me to switch to MB.
Didn't BMW suffer from a bad decision in the late 80's or early 90's regarding the "alusil" material used in one of their engines? Can't remember the details and the name right now for the particular engine metal compound used.
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      11-21-2013, 02:28 PM   #42
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Pierre
My dealer supposedly reflashed the ecu after changing the back pressure sensor. I hope the system will work better as a whole now. I have no idea now if the trouble I had so far is due to a bug in the software or not by not processing the data correctly or sending the correct info to the DPF for regen process.
It is hard for me to tell what happened. The reality is that many cars suffer from all these issues mentioned here. More than a coincidence.
BMW lost me as a return customer.
You just made the case for me to switch to MB.
Didn't BMW suffer from a bad decision in the late 80's or early 90's regarding the "alusil" material used in one of their engines? Can't remember the details and the name right now for the particular engine metal compound used.
There are definitely issues as you say that are troubling and should not have happened. I agree and would consider a new E-Class 4 cylinder diesel should the time come for such a decision. VW also seems to have a bit more success with some of these issues and is coming out with some interesting cars such as the Golf GTD. Not sure if I'm ready yet for a car like the Tesla or can afford a Porsche at this time.

My own situation dictates that I might be better off getting an extended warranty and see how it goes, having had all the updates on a late 2011 build 335d and with my better luck with direct injection diesels. We shall see.
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      11-21-2013, 02:42 PM   #43
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Reading different posts regarding mods to the egr and dog I am not sure if it really worth the effort.
Due to the nature of my driving, mostly city, a diesel may not be the best choice for me.

There is a topic regarding removing the egr but getting into other trouble with the egr cooler. Having a straight pipe by eliminating the dog is a difficult task to accomplish since there are not enough tuners to set the ecu codes straight.
It is difficult to fix a design flaw while keeping the car legal and reliable.
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      11-21-2013, 03:52 PM   #44
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There are definitely issues as you say that are troubling and should not have happened. I agree and would consider a new E-Class 4 cylinder diesel should the time come for such a decision. VW also seems to have a bit more success with some of these issues and is coming out with some interesting cars such as the Golf GTD. Not sure if I'm ready yet for a car like the Tesla or can afford a Porsche at this time.

My own situation dictates that I might be better off getting an extended warranty and see how it goes, having had all the updates on a late 2011 build 335d and with my better luck with direct injection diesels. We shall see.
I have a 2010 that is driven mostly in city. I do not know exactly but I think I drove the car about 25K miles before the EGR update. After 30K miles, my numerous visits to the dealer, SES light and limp mode were a sign that you need an extended warranty for these cars.

Yesterday, I just passed the 50K miles mark. I am now in the extended warranty territory. I am good until 100K miles or 7 years from purchase date.
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