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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Adding XD600/6 To OEM Hifi Speakers DIY Pics



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      11-15-2013, 11:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
updated it with pics of the install from today. Video attempting to showcase the difference coming soon
Did you just run the power wire directly across the car? The reason I ask is because it doesn't seem entirely safe. There is a metal lip on both sides of the car, and when you put anything heavy in the trunk it's going to push the power wire against that lip. It is fused so its not a big deal, but my power wire is actually alot longer and I routed it through that little channel that is under the rear deck.
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      11-15-2013, 12:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
updated it with pics of the install from today. Video attempting to showcase the difference coming soon
Did you just run the power wire directly across the car? The reason I ask is because it doesn't seem entirely safe. There is a metal lip on both sides of the car, and when you put anything heavy in the trunk it's going to push the power wire against that lip. It is fused so its not a big deal, but my power wire is actually alot longer and I routed it through that little channel that is under the rear deck.
Yea i did. I put some electrical tape on the lip to try and make it less sharp but still dont like that it is installed like that even though the wire is really thick. Where is the channel you're talking about and how can i access it? I'd much rather install it like that than the way it is now
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      11-15-2013, 12:19 PM   #25
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psmitty95, thanks for the detail and effort in your post.

Great photos's (...well the ideas good )

The video is interesting definite change in character of the sound... but was never going to be easy to get that across. How would you describe the difference? Across the web, on no doubt bodged YouTube version of events it seems "more normal".

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      11-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #26
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psmitty95, thanks for the detail and effort in your post.

Great photos's (...well the ideas good )

The video is interesting definite change in character of the sound... but was never going to be easy to get that across. How would you describe the difference? Across the web, on no doubt bodged YouTube version of events it seems "more normal".

Yea the video doesn't really accurately show the difference. I think there is a bit more clarity and depth in normal songs but the biggest difference at least that I noticed is in the bass. To me it just sounds more powerful and responsive in a way. Much more punchy and that is the major difference that I noticed from the amp
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      11-15-2013, 04:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Yea the video doesn't really accurately show the difference. I think there is a bit more clarity and depth in normal songs but the biggest difference at least that I noticed is in the bass. To me it just sounds more powerful and responsive in a way. Much more punchy and that is the major difference that I noticed from the amp
Replace the front speakers and then you will really notice the difference.

The HiFi mid and tweeters are fine with the XD600/6 if you are in a very tight budget. But not great at all beyond that...
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      11-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Yea i did. I put some electrical tape on the lip to try and make it less sharp but still dont like that it is installed like that even though the wire is really thick. Where is the channel you're talking about and how can i access it? I'd much rather install it like that than the way it is now
You can see it on your 10th photo from the top. Its above the wheelwells. I used a Rockford Fosgate 4 gauge kit and I had plenty left over.
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      11-15-2013, 11:35 PM   #29
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You can see it on your 10th photo from the top. Its above the wheelwells. I used a Rockford Fosgate 4 gauge kit and I had plenty left over.
Hmm i still don't really see it but i'll peek around tomorrow. Idk if the supplied power wire is long enough though

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Replace the front speakers and then you will really notice the difference.

The HiFi mid and tweeters are fine with the XD600/6 if you are in a very tight budget. But not great at all beyond that...
Yea i'm relatively impressed at what just the amp did. I'm going to run it like this for a while then probably swap to MB quarts kit. Do you have any recommendations on running the power wire? I might try bmw325i's suggestion but I don't know if the power wire is long enough
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      11-16-2013, 12:16 AM   #30
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Can this be added to an L7 to get better sound? Or is the L7 system already just as good?
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      11-16-2013, 12:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Hmm i still don't really see it but i'll peek around tomorrow. Idk if the supplied power wire is long enough though



Yea i'm relatively impressed at what just the amp did. I'm going to run it like this for a while then probably swap to MB quarts kit. Do you have any recommendations on running the power wire? I might try bmw325i's suggestion but I don't know if the power wire is long enough
Looking from the back of the car there is a little opening in the upper left and right corners above the wheel wells, I ran the wire across up there.
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      11-16-2013, 12:30 AM   #32
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Can this be added to an L7 to get better sound? Or is the L7 system already just as good?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=19

You should first figure out your budget and what you are trying to accomplish.
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      11-16-2013, 12:52 AM   #33
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Can this be added to an L7 to get better sound? Or is the L7 system already just as good?
Well from what I read you'd first need something to change the output from L7 since it is not balanced like hifi (or something like that, can't remember the exact terminology)

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Looking from the back of the car there is a little opening in the upper left and right corners above the wheel wells, I ran the wire across up there.
Ok i'll take a look tomorrow if I have time thanks for the help
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      11-16-2013, 01:17 AM   #34
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FYI no analog input to the L7 amp

No analog inputs to the L7 amp
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
you can use the speaker outs from the L7 to drive bigger
amps but its not really a clean solution.
Thats why most remove the L7 amp.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
The Hi Fi setup has analog signals from the HU to amp
which is why it easier to modify. Also there is and existing
wire harness that only needs the short Technic Harness to
easily connect aftermarket amps.

One way to avoid running the power wires over the sharp
ridges of the trunk is to go the long way . Over the rear wheel well across and over the TCU area and back over the other wheel well to the battery. Also use some heavy Velcro to trap the wire in place at strategic points.

ie see pictures in the following link

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1329017429

Last edited by ctuna; 11-16-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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      11-16-2013, 01:24 AM   #35
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I noticed on some songs some notes will make a crackling sound kinda like it is rattling up front. Is that the speakers being shitty and close to blowing or something with my amp settings should be changed?
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      11-16-2013, 06:18 AM   #36
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It almost sounds as though your are describing "clipping" the end result can be the drive unit is hitting a physical barrier, i.e. coz its driven to its end stops.

My understanding is normally you get this from over driving your speakers often due to a low power amp trying to hard. You sort of end end up throwing the speaker driver in the hope of getting it loud, rather than quality power amp moving it in control.

If its clipping its not good and sure way to blow a drive unit as the coil gets hot and bothered. Could be the amp settings need a tweak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

Below a link and excerpts to a better article... ( FYI "transient power" is what you see move on Naim Amps when you get your money out, a 2k NAP 200 has 300VA of transient power. The 6k NAP 300 has 500VA and if you have a huge wallet the 20k NAP 500 puts out 700VA.... My Denon AV amp says don't touch the speaker terminals for fear of electric shock!!!)

http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics...udio/4679.html

"Musical transients, those instant bursts of musical information that are loud, can cause an amp to reach its operating limits. When that happens, the sound wave from the amp is corrupted and it can take the speaker out of its operating limits, thus causing damage to the speaker. It can be seen on an ocilliscope because a square sine wave will become jagged when the amp clips

Speaker damage is far more likely to occur from your amplifier or receiver amp section clipping than from listening to your loudspeakers very loud. Almost all well-built speakers will inform the listener when they are distorting too much from being played too loud, well before any damage is done. Of course if you are tone deaf and keep cranking the volume up, unless there is protection built into the speaker and the amp section, you could well do damage to the speaker (besides your hearing).

Standard loudspeakers are very energy inefficient. They probably dispel over 90% of the "wattage" they receive as heat and mechanical energy. Thankfully (with most speakers) they play medium to loud from 1 to 20 watts. Problems can occur when there is a high energy transient in the music or movie that requires a burst of 50 to over 100 watts. While this burst rarely lasts more than a few milliseconds it can potentially cause a lot of problems if you are using an underpowered amplifier-I don't necessarily mean insufficient power--I mean insufficient headroom or amps. The push or amperage behind the wattage is what gives the amplifier extra headroom to comfortably hit these burst transients without overloading the amp and supplying the speaker with clean undistorted (not clipped) power."

Last edited by BOTUS; 11-16-2013 at 06:55 AM.
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      11-16-2013, 09:23 AM   #37
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It almost sounds as though your are describing "clipping" the end result can be the drive unit is hitting a physical barrier, i.e. coz its driven to its end stops.

My understanding is normally you get this from over driving your speakers often due to a low power amp trying to hard. You sort of end end up throwing the speaker driver in the hope of getting it loud, rather than quality power amp moving it in control.

If its clipping its not good and sure way to blow a drive unit as the coil gets hot and bothered. Could be the amp settings need a tweak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

Below a link and excerpts to a better article... ( FYI "transient power" is what you see move on Naim Amps when you get your money out, a 2k NAP 200 has 300VA of transient power. The 6k NAP 300 has 500VA and if you have a huge wallet the 20k NAP 500 puts out 700VA.... My Denon AV amp says don't touch the speaker terminals for fear of electric shock!!!)

http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics...udio/4679.html

"Musical transients, those instant bursts of musical information that are loud, can cause an amp to reach its operating limits. When that happens, the sound wave from the amp is corrupted and it can take the speaker out of its operating limits, thus causing damage to the speaker. It can be seen on an ocilliscope because a square sine wave will become jagged when the amp clips

Speaker damage is far more likely to occur from your amplifier or receiver amp section clipping than from listening to your loudspeakers very loud. Almost all well-built speakers will inform the listener when they are distorting too much from being played too loud, well before any damage is done. Of course if you are tone deaf and keep cranking the volume up, unless there is protection built into the speaker and the amp section, you could well do damage to the speaker (besides your hearing).

Standard loudspeakers are very energy inefficient. They probably dispel over 90% of the "wattage" they receive as heat and mechanical energy. Thankfully (with most speakers) they play medium to loud from 1 to 20 watts. Problems can occur when there is a high energy transient in the music or movie that requires a burst of 50 to over 100 watts. While this burst rarely lasts more than a few milliseconds it can potentially cause a lot of problems if you are using an underpowered amplifier-I don't necessarily mean insufficient power--I mean insufficient headroom or amps. The push or amperage behind the wattage is what gives the amplifier extra headroom to comfortably hit these burst transients without overloading the amp and supplying the speaker with clean undistorted (not clipped) power."
That definitely sounds like a possibility.. i've played some music on pretty much full blast a few times over the last few weeks on the oem amp
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      11-16-2013, 10:08 AM   #38
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But if your getting it now, is it amp settings on the JL600.

not really sure about car hi fi stuff. Thought I read on a forum about the BM signal from the head unit being high and you feed to the amp on wrong settings isn't signal going in a bit high to start with. Under current config, is it very loud on quite low volume setting?
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      11-16-2013, 10:17 AM   #39
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But if your getting it now, is it amp settings on the JL600.

not really sure about car hi fi stuff. Thought I read on a forum about the BM signal from the head unit being high and you feed to the amp on wrong settings isn't signal going in a bit high to start with. Under current config, is it very loud on quite low volume setting?
Nope it's been performing great on all volumes only thing i've noticed is that one sound issue where certain notes of songs at a relatively high volume will make some speakers (usually sounds like front passenger) sound like they're rattling or loose if that makes sense. I don't know too much about this stuff either but the settings I used were what I saw technic recommended. Technic any ideas?
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      11-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #40
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psmitty95, check out the manual?

I saw something about "clicking" is often sign of over current (bridged mode on amp) or short circuit... it suggests the amber light could be on for a few seconds as well.

http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mf...pdf?1342151692

4) Constant Amber (yellow): Indicates
that an over-current condition has occurred
and is accompanied by a muting of the affected
channel(s). Because the muting behavior may be
very short in duration, it may manifest itself as
an audible, repetitive ticking noise in the output.
Over-current conditions can be caused by a
speaker impedance lower than the optimum load
impedance range for the amplifier or a shortcircuit
in the speaker wiring. The latter can result
from a short circuit between the positive and
negative speaker wires or between either speaker
wire and the vehicle chassis. The “Status LED”
will remain amber for a few seconds, even if the
over-current condition is of a very short duration.
This functionality can be used to diagnose a
short-circuit by only connecting one channel at
a time. The “Status LED” will turn amber when
you connect the channel that is experiencing the
problem and turn the volume up.
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      11-19-2013, 07:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Nope it's been performing great on all volumes only thing i've noticed is that one sound issue where certain notes of songs at a relatively high volume will make some speakers (usually sounds like front passenger) sound like they're rattling or loose if that makes sense. I don't know too much about this stuff either but the settings I used were what I saw technic recommended. Technic any ideas?
It could be that the gain is too low and the head unit is clipping. What is your gain set to?
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      11-19-2013, 08:56 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOTUS View Post
psmitty95, check out the manual?

I saw something about "clicking" is often sign of over current (bridged mode on amp) or short circuit... it suggests the amber light could be on for a few seconds as well.

http://mediacdn.jlaudio.com/media/mf...pdf?1342151692

4) Constant Amber (yellow): Indicates
that an over-current condition has occurred
and is accompanied by a muting of the affected
channel(s). Because the muting behavior may be
very short in duration, it may manifest itself as
an audible, repetitive ticking noise in the output.
Over-current conditions can be caused by a
speaker impedance lower than the optimum load
impedance range for the amplifier or a shortcircuit
in the speaker wiring. The latter can result
from a short circuit between the positive and
negative speaker wires or between either speaker
wire and the vehicle chassis. The “Status LED”
will remain amber for a few seconds, even if the
over-current condition is of a very short duration.
This functionality can be used to diagnose a
short-circuit by only connecting one channel at
a time. The “Status LED” will turn amber when
you connect the channel that is experiencing the
problem and turn the volume up.
Idk if i'd describe it as clicking it's more of a buzzing sound but maybe tomorrow i'll play the music relatively loud and peek back there at the status light

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325i View Post
It could be that the gain is too low and the head unit is clipping. What is your gain set to?
Gain is input sensitivity, right? If so for the fronts and rears I have it set to the lowest possible setting. Technic said he thinks its just the fact that i'm putting too much power to the oem speakers and need to upgrade.

I've been doing some research and had a few questions. First of all have you seen the MB quart kit and if so in terms of power and whatnot do you think it's worth it or should I spend more for something better? Also, is it worth upgrading the rear speakers or should I just leave them stock? If it is worth upgrading i'd love to get something that is a easy drop in replacement for around $120 or less. Any ideas?
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      11-20-2013, 02:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Idk if i'd describe it as clicking it's more of a buzzing sound but maybe tomorrow i'll play the music relatively loud and peek back there at the status light



Gain is input sensitivity, right? If so for the fronts and rears I have it set to the lowest possible setting. Technic said he thinks its just the fact that i'm putting too much power to the oem speakers and need to upgrade.

I've been doing some research and had a few questions. First of all have you seen the MB quart kit and if so in terms of power and whatnot do you think it's worth it or should I spend more for something better? Also, is it worth upgrading the rear speakers or should I just leave them stock? If it is worth upgrading i'd love to get something that is a easy drop in replacement for around $120 or less. Any ideas?
You should try turning up the gain a little bit. I think your headunit might be clipping at higher volumes.

It's up to you on the rear speakers. They aren't really worth upgrading, but there's no reason why you couldn't do it anyways. Logic 7 speakers are decent and cheap. I think mkpoto is the person to ask about the MB Quart. I am curious about how they compare to the Jehnert flatline kit.
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      11-20-2013, 07:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Idk if i'd describe it as clicking it's more of a buzzing sound but maybe tomorrow i'll play the music relatively loud and peek back there at the status light



Gain is input sensitivity, right? If so for the fronts and rears I have it set to the lowest possible setting. Technic said he thinks its just the fact that i'm putting too much power to the oem speakers and need to upgrade.

I've been doing some research and had a few questions. First of all have you seen the MB quart kit and if so in terms of power and whatnot do you think it's worth it or should I spend more for something better? Also, is it worth upgrading the rear speakers or should I just leave them stock? If it is worth upgrading i'd love to get something that is a easy drop in replacement for around $120 or less. Any ideas?
You should try turning up the gain a little bit. I think your headunit might be clipping at higher volumes.

It's up to you on the rear speakers. They aren't really worth upgrading, but there's no reason why you couldn't do it anyways. Logic 7 speakers are decent and cheap. I think mkpoto is the person to ask about the MB Quart. I am curious about how they compare to the Jehnert flatline kit.
Yea that is also what i'm wondering. I havent gotten a price shipped on the jehnerts but that was my original plan months ago and i think they were in the 800's. The mbquarts are in the 500's so significantly cheaper. I'll try torning up the gain a little bit this afternoon and report back
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