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      10-31-2007, 03:35 PM   #23
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Gutted for you mate! - I know what it feels like....to finally get the car of your dreams and it turns out to be a sack of shite! Thats how I often feel about mine! Its booked in again next week to have a clutch and flywheel.

It has not even done 3k miles yet and had fuel pump, steering rack, wing aligned, locking and windows problem fixed, CAN bus failure, ECU re program, faulty Ipod lead causing speaker malfunction and now needs a clutch and flywheel. While it's in they need to look at my drivers seat 'cos thats creaking now! - it's a contant source of amusement both at work and down the local and the neighbours must think I work for the local stealership with the amount of E90's I bring home.

The only way I got anything done was to involve BMW UK - in fact now each time it goes wrong I simply email the manager at head office and he notifies my dealer, lol! At least that way I get a call back - my service manager is always 'with a customer at the moment' and of course he never does give you that call you're promised

Hope they sort it soon!

Paul

(an ex Audi driver who enjoyed a reliable car with excellent service......once upon a time!!)
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      10-31-2007, 03:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redE93cab View Post
Gutted for you mate! - I know what it feels like....to finally get the cr of your dreams and it turns out to be a sack of shite! Thats how I often feel about mine! Its booked in again next week to have a clutch and flywheel.

It has not even done 3k miles yet and had fuel pump, steering rack, wing aligned, locking and windows problem fixed, CAN bus failure, ECU re program, faulty Ipod lead causing speaker malfunction and now needs a clutch and flywheel. While it's in they need to look at my drivers seat 'cos thats creaking now! - it's a contant source of amusement both at work and down the local and the neighbours must think I work for the local stealership with the amount of E90's I bring home.

The only way I got anything done was to involve BMW UK - in fact now each time it goes wrong I simply email the manager at head office and he notifies my dealer, lol! At least that way I get a call back - my service manager is always 'with a customer at the moment' and of course he never does give you that call you're promised

Hope they sort it soon!

Paul

(an ex Audi driver who enjoyed a reliable car with excellent service......once upon a time!!)
When you put it all like that, things do seem really really bad... but you seem to have figured out a good way to get things sorted (by dealing with BMW UK directly). That certainly seems like a very valuable email address you have managed to get hold of!!

Once again, I hope your issues are finally sorted when next weeks work is carried out.

Gordon.
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      10-31-2007, 03:57 PM   #25
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Tony for it's worth this is a real horror story and I feel for you. Those pictures of your car on the lorry really sum things up.

In fear of stating the obvious, have you considered the legal standpoint of this situation.

Warranties are in addition to other consumer rights and a warranty does not affect the consumers legal rights to reject a car that is faulty and get their money back. A dealer, by law, is allowed a reasonable amount of time to rectify any faults. The grey area in law is what is considered to be 'morally' a reasonable amount of time and attempts to rectify any faults.

Additionally in law, if the car develops a fault in the first six months, it will usually be assumed that the fault was there when the vehicle was purchased by the consumer. Therefore, numerous faults that can be deemed to be manufacturers faults can further substantiate the legal case for rejection of the faulty vehicle and or offer of a replacement equal in cost and specification to the original unit.

Just a thought. Good luck.

Last edited by beemerbird; 10-31-2007 at 04:13 PM.
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      10-31-2007, 05:07 PM   #26
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Feel for you mate. I had a Z4 delivered of a couple of years ago and picked it up at night. Anyhow when I looked at it next day it had deep marks around the rear boot lid where it tranpirred the foam protectors that stop the hood cover straps touching the body work had fallen out in transportation.

They offered to respray the back end of the car + I guess they would have to fill as well as it had gone into the service. I said reject please new car and the dealer principle tried to palm me off for some time. Anyhow I was so bloody fumming I spent half a day phoning around Bracknell and got to speak to head of customer services after settling for nothing less - and basically saying I was coming to see him if you will not put him on the phone.

He sorted the whole thing for me with the dealer and I got a new car.

It's painful, take a deep breath, be polite but firm. I really believe BMW have very good customer service and deep down they want it right and you will get there in the end. If you have brought other BMW in the past let them know you are a loyal customer.


Reallity it costs them next to nothing as they will sell your car off 2nd hand and cover most if not all of the costs.

Good luck.
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      10-31-2007, 06:05 PM   #27
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Thanks everyone for your advice and help. It's just gutting that such a good car is ruined by these stupid faults. And like others of you, getting the attention of the Service Manager isn't the easiest at times - he's on the phone, away from his desk, with another customer... He'll call you back in 10 minutes is my favourite one. I had that today - waited 45 minutes, didn't hear a peep, so phoned again and was told there's a customer at this desk. So then I tell the receptionist to put me through to the dealer principle. She sounds a bit shocked, puts me on hold, then literally fifteen seconds later comes back and says the customer has now left and the Service Manager can speak to me.

I've given up with the dealer - only going to deal with BMW UK from now on. I wish I could have grounds to reject the car, but I bought it in March 07 and it was an ex-demo... The crazy thing is that my dealer knows about the E90 forum and knows I'm posting everything that goes right and wrong with my car.. Don't they get it that others might be less inclined to use their garage for servicing? Boggles belief that their customer service is so bad.

In fairness to BMW UK, they really have acted quickly and done what they promised. I'm not happy about my loan car, but they are trying to find something else for me.

ps.. this 520d is MILES better than the last one I had... the gearbox/engine interface isn't so rubber-bandy, and it's a fair bit quicker (must have the 177bhp engine as it's got a straight exhaust pipe).
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      10-31-2007, 06:06 PM   #28
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Ahhh Tony your suspicions were spot on !!!

It seems when there is one problem with our cars there are LOTS more around the corner...

It might be worthwhile setting up a FAQ stickied with the "common" issues and how to diagnose and approach the dealer.

Fingers crossed they get you sorted asap.

Wanna borrow my nissan to make you feel better

sJ
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      10-31-2007, 06:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Serjames View Post
Ahhh Tony your suspicions were spot on !!!

It seems when there is one problem with our cars there are LOTS more around the corner...

It might be worthwhile setting up a FAQ stickied with the "common" issues and how to diagnose and approach the dealer.

Fingers crossed they get you sorted asap.

Wanna borrow my nissan to make you feel better

sJ

Does it have Procede on it? Then yes please...

Thought about posting a sticky with common problems/faults and remedies - god knows I've been through enough of them and fixed most of them to maybe help a few people out. Add in RedCabs problems and I think we could write the new Haynes manual..!
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      10-31-2007, 06:23 PM   #30
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Ask Hot coupe too, I think he's had some "niggles"

LOL The Nissan has a stereo(loves radio 4), brakes and an engine, be glad for small mercies Tony :P

Wicked for hand brake tuns though, that body roll really gives it some welly !

SJ
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      10-31-2007, 06:26 PM   #31
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Ask Hot coupe too, I think he's had some "niggles"

LOL The Nissan has a stereo(loves radio 4), brakes and an engine, be glad for small mercies Tony :P

Wicked for hand brake tuns though, that body roll really gives it some welly !

SJ
Ah yes, forgot about Hotcoupe.
Thanks for the offer of handbrake turns in the Primera. I've got a 520d to try that with... popping out now, won't be long..!!!!
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      10-31-2007, 06:46 PM   #32
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Sorry to hear of your problems buddy and I can empathise.

Reading your story makes my tale of woe pale into insignificance,and I fully understand your love,hate,hate relationship with what should be your pride and joy.

For me,the problem was not so much the cars defects after 20 miles,but the attitude and indifference of the dealer.It had reached the point that when my dealer phoned to say my car was ready for collection,I was not particularly bothered, as the whole excitement of ownership of a new car had dissipated.
I have reignited the excitement of the new car by changing various parts and the changes are still ongoing.

It sounds like you have done all the right things though in terms of getting it sorted,I'd push for some sort of recompense though,I seriously kicked arse in the end and without too much hassle I did rather well in terms of 's back in my pocket.

Keep your chin up,kick arse and lets hope you get your beast back soon.
Good luck.
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      10-31-2007, 06:49 PM   #33
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Sorry to hear of your problems buddy and I can empathise.

Reading your story makes my tale of woe pale into insignificance,and I fully understand your love,hate,hate relationship with what should be your pride and joy.

For me,the problem was not so much the cars defects after 20 miles,but the attitude and indifference of the dealer.It had reached the point that when my dealer phoned to say my car was ready for collection,I was not particularly bothered, as the whole excitement of ownership of a new car had dissipated.
I have reignited the excitement of the new car by changing various parts and the changes are still ongoing.

It sounds like you have done all the right things though in terms of getting it sorted,I'd push for some sort of recompense though,I seriously kicked arse in the end and without too much hassle I did rather well in terms of 's back in my pocket.

Keep your chin up,kick arse and lets hope you get your beast back soon.
Good luck.

Thank you chap. Glad you've got your car back and all is well. Isn't it such a shame that the dealers are always the people to let you down? If they understood the concept of customer service, or hospitality, then I certainly wouldn't be as angry as I am now.
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      11-01-2007, 01:14 AM   #34
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Thank you chap. Glad you've got your car back and all is well. Isn't it such a shame that the dealers are always the people to let you down? If they understood the concept of customer service, or hospitality, then I certainly wouldn't be as angry as I am now.
It is so often the delers Tony, and it would appear that it's a real lottery about whether you get a good one. I seems that those of us fortunate enough to have a good one are the more those of us a little off the beaten track. I've had 2 'troublesome' BMWs in the past (E39 Tourer and a 120d), one from my very good local dealer (Snows of Portsmouth) and another from a not good dealer a few miles away. In both cases the cars were eventually sorted by Snows, with no intervention by BMW UK necessary (though I did get them in on the 120d saga to sort out the on-delivery issues with the other dealer initially). In both cases, though it was the worst feeling at the time, losing my pride of ownership, I stuck with it and the day you get your car back with the problems finally sorted really is a sweet day.

However, that said, you do seem to have a good case for rejection, and would no doubt get that warm glow back from another new car. Which ever way you go, I wish you the best of luck. Even in my darkest hours, after I had defected to other brands in the past, I've always wanted to stick to my Beemers, as they have that indefinable 'thing' that I love about them, and it's worth it when you come out of the other side. Even Audis go wrong (we have one too), and they have poor dealers aswell (though again we're very lucky with Pompey Audi).

Best of luck.
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      11-01-2007, 04:25 AM   #35
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Ooooh, I forgot to mention why it's being trailored... steering pump failed. Started the car, couldn't turn the steering wheel either left or right. That was yesterday evening - tried twice, even left the car to go into sleep mode then came back and tried again. Couldn't get the wheel to turn. Called Emergency Services, who liaised with BMW UK and the dealer (don't know why they bothered) and a trailor was dispatched this lunchtime. Courtesy 5er arrived late this afternoon.
Could it be the electronic steering lock didn't disengauge?
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      11-01-2007, 10:40 AM   #36
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Could it be the electronic steering lock didn't disengauge?
When the BMW tech hooked up the fault computer to the OBD port he went through and checked every single module. There were no faults to the EKS (steering wheel lock), nor were there any faults in the steering angle sensor monitor. The only two faults were in the footwell module which showed up as the rear-fog-light sensor being faulty. So we really don't know what's wrong. Car arrived at the dealers yesterday apparently and hasn't gone to BMW UK at this stage. The BMW UK technician is spending the day at the dealers to see why THEY can't fix it there. He's a bit dubious about the whole thing, so wants to check it out. If he then decides that it needs transporting to Bracknell, then they'll organise that.

However, I haven't had any contact from the dealer today, even though he was supposed to update me first thing this morning once the car went on the ramp. Typical - promise one thing, get the complete opposite. No wonder I'm angry.
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      11-01-2007, 10:44 AM   #37
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When the BMW tech hooked up the fault computer to the OBD port he went through and checked every single module. There were no faults to the EKS (steering wheel lock), nor were there any faults in the steering angle sensor monitor. The only two faults were in the footwell module which showed up as the rear-fog-light sensor being faulty. So we really don't know what's wrong. Car arrived at the dealers yesterday apparently and hasn't gone to BMW UK at this stage. The BMW UK technician is spending the day at the dealers to see why THEY can't fix it there. He's a bit dubious about the whole thing, so wants to check it out. If he then decides that it needs transporting to Bracknell, then they'll organise that.

However, I haven't had any contact from the dealer today, even though he was supposed to update me first thing this morning once the car went on the ramp. Typical - promise one thing, get the complete opposite. No wonder I'm angry.
I can understand your anger and frustration, Ta for the reply.hope you get a bit of good luck any time soon.
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      11-02-2007, 02:59 PM   #38
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Does anyone know what the latest is with Tonys Car
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      11-02-2007, 10:54 PM   #39
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There's no latest info unfortunately... It's been up on a ramp for the last two days, and they've done a KDS again. One of the senior technicians has taken it home with him tonight to see if he can replicate the steering fault. The BMW UK Master Tech is coming down to the dealer on the 8th to drive it himself and to give his point of view. Basically, no one knows anything about anything.
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      11-03-2007, 11:16 AM   #40
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There's no latest info unfortunately... It's been up on a ramp for the last two days, and they've done a KDS again. One of the senior technicians has taken it home with him tonight to see if he can replicate the steering fault. The BMW UK Master Tech is coming down to the dealer on the 8th to drive it himself and to give his point of view. Basically, no one knows anything about anything.
Sorry to hear that
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      11-08-2007, 01:28 PM   #41
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Sorry to hear that
The latest???
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      11-08-2007, 01:34 PM   #42
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The latest???
Just hope Tone gets it back before Dyno day
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      11-08-2007, 10:02 PM   #43
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Just hope Tone gets it back before Dyno day
Right, well I've had an email from the dealer...


Dear...

Following an extensive road test with **** (BMW UK) today, and some other checks that he asked us to make, I can summarise the following:-


The steering gear operates correctly with no signs of defective component preventing movement across the steering travel. The steering wheel was off centred to the left and this has been corrected by a KDS alignment. There were minimal deviations on the new KDS report prior to adjustments. The car drives straight and only tends to pull to the left or right when influenced by the road camber. There are no signs of steering fluid leaks and the level is correct.


The i-drive and navigation has worked without fail since we received the car. We have called the fault memory, observed by **** and there are no defects stored. All functions work.

The road test with **** and indeed all other road tests with our technicians have failed to reproduce any significant creaks / rattles that are unacceptable. In fact re-evaluating the car today it was near silent in terms of trim noise / movement.

I am satisfied and our regional BMW technical manager is satisfied that the car is behaving as expected and that you should be comfortable going back into it.

I am upset that our relationship has deteriorated over the course of recent repair visits and genuinely share your frustrations. I regret the time it has taken to put things right on previous occasions. As a BMW aficionado like yourself, I firmly believe this car is right to give back to you and do hope that you can start to enjoy it properly.

I propose that we valet the car for you tomorrow and take care of the kerb damage on the drivers wheel rim as my gesture of goodwill.

I will contact tomorrow once this is done and I hope we can catch up then.

Kind regards


...




So... there we go. There's nothing wrong with my car. I must have imagined the steering wheel jammed, and I must have imagined the iDrive screen was blinking on and off. Oh, and yes I was imagining that the car was pulling hard to the left, and that James and Kevin from Hartge experienced that too... damn, maybe I should smoke less pot (not that I smoke any.. maybe that's the answer - I should start smoking pot) so that I can get rid of all these car-related hallucinations...

arrrrrrgh

Last edited by E92Fan; 11-09-2007 at 12:26 AM.
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      11-09-2007, 12:22 AM   #44
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And now, my reply to BMWs email...


Hi ****, **** & ****

Well, I suppose it's good news that you are all agreed that the car is in fine fettle. I am concerned however that no fault has been found with the steering in particular - I assure you that I was not dreaming or hallucinating when I discovered I couldn't turn the wheel. And no, it wasn't that the steering was already on full lock, as someone has suggested to me already. Regarding the drifting to the left, I have two completely independent reports on how the car was driving prior to it being taken to Sytners - both reports categorically state that the force needed to turn the steering wheel to the rght in order to keep the car straight on an even-cambered road was unacceptably high, and thus prompted concern that the alignment of the car was out again.

With regards to the CCC, I can only assume this is an intermittent fault, as it was on the previous CCC which has already been replaced. I will be peeved if after I pick the car up the navigation computer goes wrong again. And with the rattles, well if you all say that it is within acceptable limits, then there's nothing I can really say is there? In my view, it was completely unacceptable how bad the rattles were before the car was lifted to Sytners...

So here we are then - at the end of all this, there's apparently nothing wrong with my car other than a slightly wonky steering wheel. As some might say, you have presented me with a fait accompli - there's nothing I can do but hope that the car really is fine and that none of these issues reappear.

Clearly, I now have written documentation from Sytners that the car is now in perfect working order, so in the event there are further problems for example with the steering pump whilst I am driving along, then I will have the means, recourse and ammunition to pursue further action.

You will understand that I am not happy with the length of time all this has taken and that I have little confidence in my car being 'right to be given back to me'. I need not remind you that the car has revisited Sytners on more than one occasion after I was erroneously told that everything was fixed (the alignment being one particularly disturbing event).

I am grateful to **** for organising the loan car and delivering it personally to my house for me - however I do not consider a 520d an appropriate replacement for my car given the length of time I have been without it. The offer of a 525d instead of the 520d was a gesture, but telling me to drive an hour to Sytners to swap the car over, and then to drive an hour back into London, was appalling. I hate to say it, but Audi really have you lot licked when it comes to customer service and a desire not only to keep customers happy, but also in their desire to retain their customers. I say that from personal experience, having owned four Audi's before moving to BMW with an excellent E46 convertible.

Being brutally honest, I consider the relationship I have with Sytners to be almost over - it will require an immense change in my confidence to begin to rebuild that, your gestures of a valet and so forth notwithstanding. I am actually considering dumping the 335i and leaving BMW entirely. I finally made my feelings and concerns public on the UK BMW forums which I actively represent and am shocked by the number of people who have replied citing serious and major problems with their cars. There are substantial numbers of people prepared to cut their losses and switch to Audis or Mercedes (the Audi S5 being the most popular alternative)

I will be co-hosting a significant and influential 'meet' of UK forum members in Uxbridge on Saturday, 8 Decemeber, at which BMW Car Magazine will be in attendance to provide press coverage. That leaves almost exactly a month for me to enjoy my car again. If you as a collective group of BMW representatives are 200% confident that my car is in perfect working order, then I will be happy to take it away tomorrow in good faith. Please let me know your decision. If there are subsequent problems, believe me I will be most vociferous in my damnation and will be in contact directly with BMW Germany to seek resolution.

I am upset that I have had to take a full 25 minutes in giving consideration to what I would write in this email. I am upset, as **** is, that this has dragged on for so long. I can only hope that this truly is the last of it and that we can get on with the other pressing matters filling up our intrays.


Kind regards

.....




Any thoughts? Don't think there's much else I can do, except take the car back and hope for the best

Last edited by E92Fan; 11-09-2007 at 01:14 AM.
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