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      11-09-2007, 01:08 AM   #45
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Tony,

Well put. Very reasonable and you are bang on the money. Fingers crossed for you and I feel your frustration. You have the patience of a saint; I hope it pays off for you.
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      11-09-2007, 01:11 AM   #46
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Tony,

Well put. Very reasonable and you are bang on the money. Fingers crossed for you and I feel your frustration. You have the patience of a saint; I hope it pays off for you.
Christ alive, I thought I was the only one awake at this ungodly hour!!

Thanks by the way...
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      11-09-2007, 01:32 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Christ alive, I thought I was the only one awake at this ungodly hour!!
Unfortunately not!!!
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      11-09-2007, 02:14 AM   #48
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Well put Tony, think you have cleverly explained your disappointment in their findings (lack thereof), the fact you are upset about all this and annoyed, and possibly now have them flinching about impending bad press. All without being rude - most effective

Hope the car is alright though.
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      11-09-2007, 03:20 AM   #49
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Spot on response Tony. Let's hope they feel pangs of guilt over the way you have been treated. Fingers crossed that your 335 is 'fixed'.
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      11-09-2007, 03:49 AM   #50
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Tony, fingers crossed the car is now ok.

Is this true that you own a successful restaurant in the city of London?
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      11-09-2007, 03:53 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Right, well I've had an email from the dealer...


Dear...

Following an extensive road test with **** (BMW UK) today, and some other checks that he asked us to make, I can summarise the following:-


The steering gear operates correctly with no signs of defective component preventing movement across the steering travel. The steering wheel was off centred to the left and this has been corrected by a KDS alignment. There were minimal deviations on the new KDS report prior to adjustments. The car drives straight and only tends to pull to the left or right when influenced by the road camber. There are no signs of steering fluid leaks and the level is correct.


The i-drive and navigation has worked without fail since we received the car. We have called the fault memory, observed by **** and there are no defects stored. All functions work.

The road test with **** and indeed all other road tests with our technicians have failed to reproduce any significant creaks / rattles that are unacceptable. In fact re-evaluating the car today it was near silent in terms of trim noise / movement.

I am satisfied and our regional BMW technical manager is satisfied that the car is behaving as expected and that you should be comfortable going back into it.

I am upset that our relationship has deteriorated over the course of recent repair visits and genuinely share your frustrations. I regret the time it has taken to put things right on previous occasions. As a BMW aficionado like yourself, I firmly believe this car is right to give back to you and do hope that you can start to enjoy it properly.

I propose that we valet the car for you tomorrow and take care of the kerb damage on the drivers wheel rim as my gesture of goodwill.

I will contact tomorrow once this is done and I hope we can catch up then.

Kind regards


...




So... there we go. There's nothing wrong with my car. I must have imagined the steering wheel jammed, and I must have imagined the iDrive screen was blinking on and off. Oh, and yes I was imagining that the car was pulling hard to the left, and that James and Kevin from Hartge experienced that too... damn, maybe I should smoke less pot (not that I smoke any.. maybe that's the answer - I should start smoking pot) so that I can get rid of all these car-related hallucinations...

arrrrrrgh
I think you have every right to be frustrated.

My feeling about their email is that they have you down as the complaining type and that they don't believe that you have experienced these problems.

I've had this with BMW dealers before and the fault reporting software is often the issue. They seem to assume that if no fault is reported you are making it up.

The only way to break through this is to persevere, but the problem with that approach is that you may well be inconvenienced again.

I'd also not be too surprised if they haven't tweaked a few things, but not told you, so as to cover up past failings.

You seem to have been really unlucky with this one so far and I hope it gets better from here on.
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      11-09-2007, 03:54 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
And now, my reply to BMWs email...


Hi ****, **** & ****

Well, I suppose it's good news that you are all agreed that the car is in fine fettle. I am concerned however that no fault has been found with the steering in particular - I assure you that I was not dreaming or hallucinating when I discovered I couldn't turn the wheel. And no, it wasn't that the steering was already on full lock, as someone has suggested to me already. Regarding the drifting to the left, I have two completely independent reports on how the car was driving prior to it being taken to Sytners - both reports categorically state that the force needed to turn the steering wheel to the rght in order to keep the car straight on an even-cambered road was unacceptably high, and thus prompted concern that the alignment of the car was out again.

With regards to the CCC, I can only assume this is an intermittent fault, as it was on the previous CCC which has already been replaced. I will be peeved if after I pick the car up the navigation computer goes wrong again. And with the rattles, well if you all say that it is within acceptable limits, then there's nothing I can really say is there? In my view, it was completely unacceptable how bad the rattles were before the car was lifted to Sytners...

So here we are then - at the end of all this, there's apparently nothing wrong with my car other than a slightly wonky steering wheel. As some might say, you have presented me with a fait accompli - there's nothing I can do but hope that the car really is fine and that none of these issues reappear.

Clearly, I now have written documentation from Sytners that the car is now in perfect working order, so in the event there are further problems for example with the steering pump whilst I am driving along, then I will have the means, recourse and ammunition to pursue further action.

You will understand that I am not happy with the length of time all this has taken and that I have little confidence in my car being 'right to be given back to me'. I need not remind you that the car has revisited Sytners on more than one occasion after I was erroneously told that everything was fixed (the alignment being one particularly disturbing event).

I am grateful to **** for organising the loan car and delivering it personally to my house for me - however I do not consider a 520d an appropriate replacement for my car given the length of time I have been without it. The offer of a 525d instead of the 520d was a gesture, but telling me to drive an hour to Sytners to swap the car over, and then to drive an hour back into London, was appalling. I hate to say it, but Audi really have you lot licked when it comes to customer service and a desire not only to keep customers happy, but also in their desire to retain their customers. I say that from personal experience, having owned four Audi's before moving to BMW with an excellent E46 convertible.

Being brutally honest, I consider the relationship I have with Sytners to be almost over - it will require an immense change in my confidence to begin to rebuild that, your gestures of a valet and so forth notwithstanding. I am actually considering dumping the 335i and leaving BMW entirely. I finally made my feelings and concerns public on the UK BMW forums which I actively represent and am shocked by the number of people who have replied citing serious and major problems with their cars. There are substantial numbers of people prepared to cut their losses and switch to Audis or Mercedes (the Audi S5 being the most popular alternative)

I will be co-hosting a significant and influential 'meet' of UK forum members in Uxbridge on Saturday, 8 Decemeber, at which BMW Car Magazine will be in attendance to provide press coverage. That leaves almost exactly a month for me to enjoy my car again. If you as a collective group of BMW representatives are 200% confident that my car is in perfect working order, then I will be happy to take it away tomorrow in good faith. Please let me know your decision. If there are subsequent problems, believe me I will be most vociferous in my damnation and will be in contact directly with BMW Germany to seek resolution.

I am upset that I have had to take a full 25 minutes in giving consideration to what I would write in this email. I am upset, as **** is, that this has dragged on for so long. I can only hope that this truly is the last of it and that we can get on with the other pressing matters filling up our intrays.


Kind regards

.....




Any thoughts? Don't think there's much else I can do, except take the car back and hope for the best

Unacceptable!

If my car had the problems yours did i would park my self in the dealers salesroom on a saturday when they are busy and shout and scream about unreliability of their cars and threaten furure sales. This would become a weekly event until i was satisfied with a suitable resolution.

I know this approach works as i have adopted this course of action in different shops and always got what i wanted.
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      11-09-2007, 03:57 AM   #53
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Hi E92fan,

Sorry to read about your problems with the car. I haven't read all the posts that made on this, so I might be on a tangent here.

I have or have had an intermittent problem with my car. Every once in a while, the central locking/rear electric sunblind and parking brake switch would not operate (all at the same time!!)

Went back to the dealers a couple of times, but they could not find the issue - naturally computer says no, or by the time I got there, the problem resolved itself.

Anyway, I was looking at the problem myself, and looking at the fuse-guide, noticed that some of the fuses are cross-functional ie central locking and rear sunblind have multiple fuses assigned to them, and I saw that one fuse was common to both. Opened the glove-box, wiggled the fuse, and sure enough could hear a relay clicking on and off - looks like a bad connection in the fuse-box.

I removed the fuse, and bent the legs slightly to provide a better contact, and re-inserted. Now, moving the fuse does not cause loss of connection, and all has been fine ever since.

I'm not saying this is causing all your problems, but might be causing your idrive/CCC to drop off intermittently. Could be worth just trying to replicate this by wiggling the fuses around to see if the fault occurs.

Anyway, goodluck with this. I once had a E39, which the dealer swore did not have any vibration issues at speed (over 70mph) - that was fun!!

Ray
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      11-09-2007, 03:58 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post

My feeling about their email is that they have you down as the complaining type and that they don't believe that you have experienced these problems.
I would agree with this completely - as my soon to be ex-$tealer feels about me and my "issues" fortunately they have finally accepted the issue and resolved after 4 visits but not before scuffing my front wheel!!! (I await the refurb!)

i think the letter is an exceptional way of showing your frustration with restraint and firmly shows that you must be taken seriously. The manager will be sweating a little and will check with all "technicians" that all will be correct.

I would not be surprised if there is a delay in getting your car back....

Good luck and fingers crossed
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      11-09-2007, 05:00 AM   #55
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Tony - I really hope all is well with the car now!

I had similar issues with them when my steering first failed - the tech came out and found no fault - he drove it with me in the passenger seat for about 50 miles with no problem at all. Computer says there is/was no fault. He took it to the dealer who kept it for a day before returning it 'no fault found'. I argued the same point.....I did not imagaine the fault!!! It WAS there and it happened repeatedly

The following day I had a phone call from the stealer re-calling the car as a 'matter of urgency' due to a steering rack fault. Mine was the second one reported but within a couple of days they had several similar reports and identified the production date as being the same time.

This obviously lost my confidence also, because I knew the fault DEFINITELY existed and the dealer says is fine! At the time two other members on here had similar issues. One had his car replaced as he rejected it under the sales of goods act. The other had a refund and went to Audi to pre-order an A5.

The steering has been fine since rack-replacement but I was nervous when the car was handed back because there is a nagging doubt in your mind that the thing will pack up again, and steering in my mins is kinda' vital

Good luck mate and let us know how things go on. I do agree with you about Audi service - I was treated like a human being at Audi rather than the 'customer who keeps causing a fuss!'

Paul
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      11-09-2007, 05:56 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Tony, fingers crossed the car is now ok.

Is this true:

"......xxxxx.....


ps.. thanks !!!!

Last edited by E92Fan; 11-09-2007 at 06:31 AM.
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      11-09-2007, 06:05 AM   #57
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Thanks everyone for your viewpoint so far - it's now 11am and I haven't heard back from them yet. Will just have to wait and see what develops today. I think it is certain though that I won't be taking my car back to Sytners, so if anyone has suggestions on a good BMW dealer close(ish) to London please let me know! (I'm even thinking of Snows in Portsmouth based on the positive feedback people have given here)
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      11-09-2007, 06:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yargnat View Post
Hi E92fan,

Sorry to read about your problems with the car. I haven't read all the posts that made on this, so I might be on a tangent here.

I have or have had an intermittent problem with my car. Every once in a while, the central locking/rear electric sunblind and parking brake switch would not operate (all at the same time!!)

Went back to the dealers a couple of times, but they could not find the issue - naturally computer says no, or by the time I got there, the problem resolved itself.

Anyway, I was looking at the problem myself, and looking at the fuse-guide, noticed that some of the fuses are cross-functional ie central locking and rear sunblind have multiple fuses assigned to them, and I saw that one fuse was common to both. Opened the glove-box, wiggled the fuse, and sure enough could hear a relay clicking on and off - looks like a bad connection in the fuse-box.

I removed the fuse, and bent the legs slightly to provide a better contact, and re-inserted. Now, moving the fuse does not cause loss of connection, and all has been fine ever since.

I'm not saying this is causing all your problems, but might be causing your idrive/CCC to drop off intermittently. Could be worth just trying to replicate this by wiggling the fuses around to see if the fault occurs.

Anyway, goodluck with this. I once had a E39, which the dealer swore did not have any vibration issues at speed (over 70mph) - that was fun!!

Ray
That's quite interesting - worth making a mental note of just in case!
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      11-09-2007, 06:52 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve A View Post
Unacceptable!

If my car had the problems yours did i would park my self in the dealers salesroom on a saturday when they are busy and shout and scream about unreliability of their cars and threaten furure sales. This would become a weekly event until i was satisfied with a suitable resolution.

I know this approach works as i have adopted this course of action in different shops and always got what i wanted.
Stevie A, you properly CRACK ME UP wish i was there to see it!!


Tony, unfortunate that they couldnt find the problems, thus not solved either. they could come back at anytime?
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      11-09-2007, 07:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Thanks everyone for your viewpoint so far - it's now 11am and I haven't heard back from them yet. Will just have to wait and see what develops today. I think it is certain though that I won't be taking my car back to Sytners, so if anyone has suggestions on a good BMW dealer close(ish) to London please let me know! (I'm even thinking of Snows in Portsmouth based on the positive feedback people have given here)
Tony - I also had 'issues' with my dealer and I requested to BMW UK that my car not be taken back there again. My dealer, 'Knights' operates Stafford and the next nearest dealer about 15 miles away in Stoke-on-Trent. My mate is business manager at BlueBell in Crewe which is approx 25 miles away (the second nearest dealer to me). When BMW UK got in touch with them the dealer principle refused to get involved and refused to take my car in, saying if there are unresolved issues with Knights, then it is Knights who should be sorting them. The next call I received was from Knights as they had been instructed by BMW UK to collect my car for rectification!

I think all work and liason with BMW UK is logged on the computer intranet system they operate. The service manager at BlueBell obviously spotted this and had a chat with the principle who decided to keep out of it so beware....you may have a similar experience?!

Paul
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      11-09-2007, 07:34 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by redE93cab View Post
Tony - I also had 'issues' with my dealer and I requested to BMW UK that my car not be taken back there again. My dealer, 'Knights' operates Stafford and the next nearest dealer about 15 miles away in Stoke-on-Trent. My mate is business manager at BlueBell in Crewe which is approx 25 miles away (the second nearest dealer to me). When BMW UK got in touch with them the dealer principle refused to get involved and refused to take my car in, saying if there are unresolved issues with Knights, then it is Knights who should be sorting them. The next call I received was from Knights as they had been instructed by BMW UK to collect my car for rectification!

I think all work and liason with BMW UK is logged on the computer intranet system they operate. The service manager at BlueBell obviously spotted this and had a chat with the principle who decided to keep out of it so beware....you may have a similar experience?!

Paul
Oh. That's not good :sad0147:
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      11-09-2007, 07:42 AM   #62
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I can't see how any dealership can refuse to deal with issues on a car. They represent BMW, surely they can't pick and choose which cars to do so on? If your trust in a particular dealership has been damaged BMW should step in to ensure another one picks up the issue. They can charge BMW for their time presumably so why would they care?
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      11-09-2007, 08:35 AM   #63
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Response from BMW UK

So I finally got the reply from BMW UK, copied to the Service Manager at Sytner's Harold Wood...



Hello Mr ****

I have spoken at length with ****, BMW UK technical Manager, following his thorough test drive of your vehicle and subsequent diagnostic checks and he is confident the issues with the vehicle have been resolved.

I am sorry to learn that you feel that your relationship with Sytner Harold wood is almost over and hope that their goodwill offer to refurbish the kerbed wheel will go some way to reaffirm their commitment to keeping you as a customer.

On behalf of BMW UK and in recognition of the problems that you have encountered, I have arranged for ************** as a goodwill gesture. I will arrange this ******* in due course.

In closing, I trust that you will now be able to enjoy trouble free driving of your vehicle and that hopefully we will be able to maintain you as a customer of the BMW brand.



I have told them I'll keep the details of compensation private, but whilst it goes some way to demonstrate that they want to retain their customers, it is so damn stupid that this couldn't have been resolved way before this ugly too-ing and fro-ing started. I don't understand why dealers let things drag on until customers get angry - surely it's not in their best interests?!

I have yet to pick up my car - I expect to do that this afternoon. Will report back to tell you all if it really is fixed or not.
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      11-09-2007, 08:42 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
So I finally got the reply from BMW UK, copied to the Service Manager at Sytner's Harold Wood...



Hello Mr ****

I have spoken at length with ****, BMW UK technical Manager, following his thorough test drive of your vehicle and subsequent diagnostic checks and he is confident the issues with the vehicle have been resolved.

I am sorry to learn that you feel that your relationship with Sytner Harold wood is almost over and hope that their goodwill offer to refurbish the kerbed wheel will go some way to reaffirm their commitment to keeping you as a customer.

On behalf of BMW UK and in recognition of the problems that you have encountered, I have arranged for ************** as a goodwill gesture. I will arrange this ******* in due course.

In closing, I trust that you will now be able to enjoy trouble free driving of your vehicle and that hopefully we will be able to maintain you as a customer of the BMW brand.



I have told them I'll keep the details of compensation private, but whilst it goes some way to demonstrate that they want to retain their customers, it is so damn stupid that this couldn't have been resolved way before this ugly too-ing and fro-ing started. I don't understand why dealers let things drag on until customers get angry - surely it's not in their best interests?!

I have yet to pick up my car - I expect to do that this afternoon. Will report back to tell you all if it really is fixed or not.
Good luck this afternoon - hope you are happy with the compensation though.
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      11-09-2007, 08:48 AM   #65
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Good luck this afternoon - hope you are happy with the compensation though.

I'll be honest, if I had the choice between the compensation, and 100% confidence in the knowledge my car was ok, I'd go fo the 100% confidence. The compensation is just a sweetener to try and prevent me from going off the deep end and damning BMW and Sytner's to eternal hell...
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      11-09-2007, 09:50 AM   #66
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Tony, in terms of dealers a mate of mine that lives in London has just recommended Copper Cobham (I asked him as he has an e92 also). Bit further for you to go I guess but might be worth a punt in future.
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