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      11-09-2007, 03:21 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by bob mushroom View Post
I used this mentality with Sandal in Wakefield as they are independantly owned - thought they would give proper cust service.. no!!

Complete set of tossers on the service desk. Deny things are wrong, send out technicians new to job who dont understand and need to . Damage vehicle but do no let you know so they can get away with it. keep your car for a day and work on an issue so miniscule to avoid the hard work and send you off with the initial fault!!

When competing with catchment areas of Leeds/Bradford/Doncaster/York all franchised dealers I expected more. Once all the mess they created is sorted my car will never be subjected to those rapists ever again!!!

Strong words from a p1ssed off customer.... stronger letter coming - oh and a full explanation I think once all sorted (don't want to jeapordise the outstanding work in case they read!)
Ooooh, this doesn't sound so good.. keep us updated
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      11-09-2007, 03:32 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Bumps View Post
Tony if you seriously are thinking about coming all the way to Snows in Portsmouth let me know and I can put you in touch with the right people and explain the situation to them before you go. It's a long way to come so it needs to be worth it. I can pretty much guarantee they would be simply pleased to do business and would do whatever they could. Like I said before they bent over backwards to sort out my old 1 Series that I didn't even buy from them, because I had a long-standing relationship with them and they wanted to make sure I came back. Business common sense really, pure and simple. And it worked
The truth is dealers like Snows of Portsmouth probably have technicians who have worked there for many years and are BMW Enthusiasts like the rest of us. They are earning a fair living and working with a quality product and have combined experience which has seen every problem inside out and backwards. They also have loyalty to the company as they personally know the owners and respect them.

Big groups are not the same. The technicians don't have the same loyalty and if Audi will pay them a couple of grand more down the road they will be off.

I brought cars from Batemans in the lake district when I lived their. I talked to the technicians when buying a car. They asked what options I was getting, explained the benifit of optioning the LSD (yes you used to be able to option LSD on the cars before traction control). When the car was serviced you could watch them if you wanted and they showed you what the computer was saying and info about your car. When cars turned up for a service they knew who the owner was on also the previous owner - just a different world from today.

My wife owns a Skoda Fabia vRS and the dealer gives the best service I have had in the last 10 years. A family owned business which puts ANY Porsche or BMW dealer in the South East to shame Full Stop.

As for James non standard requests, sadly dealers like Cooper Cobham are just not set up for this. Their service department is on a profit target to take as much money from the rich people of Cobham and unfortuntely these queries are just a distraction.
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      11-09-2007, 03:45 PM   #91
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You got it Gibbo, that's why Tony and I are leaning towards getting Birds to do all our work...

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      11-09-2007, 05:21 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
I like the idea of using an in-the-sticks dealer, as surely there business catchment area is smaller,
Portsmouth in the sticks! Tony I'll show you 'in the sticks', the South Lakes is like a cemetary with lights!

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Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
I brought cars from Batemans in the lake district when I lived their.
Gibbo, we both know that Bateman BMW is in the sticks!
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      11-09-2007, 05:31 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by peterg1965 View Post
Portsmouth in the sticks! Tony I'll show you 'in the sticks', the South Lakes is like a cemetary with lights!



Gibbo, we both know that Bateman BMW is in the sticks!
Sure is, I think the sheep population of Lindale must outweigh people 10 to 1. No jokes please.
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      11-09-2007, 09:19 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by peterg1965 View Post
Portsmouth in the sticks! Tony I'll show you 'in the sticks', the South Lakes is like a cemetary with lights!



Gibbo, we both know that Bateman BMW is in the sticks!

Boys, I'm a Londoner. I live in Central London. Anything north of Watford, or south of Crystal Palace, requires a passport. You lot are ALL in the sticks!!!
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      11-10-2007, 05:37 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Boys, I'm a Londoner. I live in Central London. Anything north of Watford, or south of Crystal Palace, requires a passport. You lot are ALL in the sticks!!!
i have thought about living in london.. might be a bit noisy for me. I saw in the newspaper there are some new developments of apartments being built in limehouse, from 380k + wonder if there be any good? any idea Tone as your a local?


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      11-10-2007, 05:52 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
i have thought about living in london.. might be a bit noisy for me. I saw in the newspaper there are some new developments of apartments being built in limehouse, from 380k + wonder if there be any good? any idea Tone as your a local?


Carlos
You got 380K Carlotsofmoney....... or would it be an investment for your Dad??
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      11-10-2007, 05:53 AM   #97
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lol carlos. london isn't ready for you mate

Stick to sunny essex, we'll all feel happier knowing we can avoid the A10

JK !

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      11-10-2007, 06:00 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterg1965 View Post
You got 380K Carlotsofmoney....... or would it be an investment for your Dad??
Not sure, could raise a decent mortgage with my income combined with the Miswah, oh and will a little help yeah




Quote:
Originally Posted by Serjames View Post
lol carlos. london isn't ready for you mate

Stick to sunny essex, we'll all feel happier knowing we can avoid the A10

JK !

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What makes you think London is not for me James?!

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      11-10-2007, 09:21 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by E92Fan View Post
Excellent fella - if I'm still not happy with my car, I'll be in touch with you. I like the idea of using an in-the-sticks dealer, as surely there business catchment area is smaller, so therefore they need to try harder to be successful... it's a plan!


I didn't mean they would be glad of the business because we're all yokels!!!

They're actually a pretty big group in the area (Snows Group), if not the biggest. They own BMW/Mini (x2), Volvo (x2), SEAT, Mitsubishi, and a Land Rover dealership I think. But they're much much better than their competitor closer to Southampton Airport. Nuff said. Offer still stands (we'd like to meet someone from the Big City)

Anyway, me and Cletus are off now to brew some moonshine and marry our sisters
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      11-10-2007, 09:58 AM   #100
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Anyway, me and Cletus are off now to brew some moonshine and marry our sisters
I always thought that was what happens in Portsmouth!
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      11-10-2007, 10:29 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by peterg1965 View Post
I always thought that was what happens in Portsmouth!
I once last year, prob about a year ago now-ish went down to portsmouth for a weekend piss-up whilst a friend lived there!!! Stayed in portswood near the airport!! was a good weekend


Carlos


Edit, forget all that, it was not portsmouth, it was Southampton, what a doughnut
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      11-10-2007, 11:27 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
I once last year, prob about a year ago now-ish went down to portsmouth for a weekend piss-up whilst a friend lived there!!! Stayed in portswood near the airport!! was a good weekend


Carlos


Edit, forget all that, it was not portsmouth, it was Southampton, what a doughnut
How the hell could you confuse Portswood and Portsmouth Carlos? You can't see the sea from Portswood.
(I know it well having spent a few years down there at Uni.)
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      11-10-2007, 08:59 PM   #103
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Anyway, me and Cletus are off now to brew some moonshine and marry our sisters


So it is true!!
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      11-10-2007, 09:02 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
i have thought about living in london.. might be a bit noisy for me. I saw in the newspaper there are some new developments of apartments being built in limehouse, from 380k + wonder if there be any good? any idea Tone as your a local?


Carlos

they're not bad, but the area surrounding is a DUMP!! The only good place in Limehouse is Narrow Street, but 380k is a high asking price for a new build. Thing is, you're a bit late on that development because it is 'on plan' now... you need to find something 'off plan' if you really want to make some money. Tower Hamlets is a poor council financially, but it is the council which is showing the greatest rate of increase in general property. Have a look round Canary Wharf way instead of Limehouse - you'll get a bigger property for the same amount of money, and the rental demand is as high as ever, so you should be fairly safe in terms of an investment.

(can't believe I've advised Carlos to live where I live... what am I thinking?! )
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      11-10-2007, 10:57 PM   #105
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Dear All E90post.com Members

Well, here we are. It's 4am on Saturday night, I've had a fabulous evening courtesy of SerJames, his lovely girfriend and their friends, and I have now calmed down enough to compose my thoughts carefully and with clarity, so that I can inform all you supportive forum members that I went to collect my car today only to discover that it is still not fixed.

How stupid do BMW and Sytner Harold Wood want to be? After the assurances, after the big "Oh let's handover tomorrow so we can spend some time with you to assure you that the car is fixed", after the BMW UK Technical Manager (to give him his full title) declared his approval that the car was in fine fettle... they have royally fucked this one up, and have royally pissed me off. I am more angry than I have been in a very very long time, and that includes the time when I caught a bloke stealing out of the till in my restaurant. I almost chopped that bloke's hand off with a meat cleaver, that was how angry I was then.

I'm sorry all - I need to vent. I need to tell you that it is now over three months that I haven't had my car. I need to go to BMW and use my meat cleaver. I am going pheasant shooting tomorrow - think I'll put their 520d in the wood and see what a 20-bore will do to that

Fucking incompetent fuckheads.


PS.. Sorry about the swearing, it's a very rare occurance


Here's the email I sent them... have been writing it since just after 3am. And I'm not blanking off their names... I don't care about their privacy anymore.


Simon, Steve, Peter

It has now been a full fourteen hours since I went to Sytners to collect my car, and only now have I managed to collect my thoughts to consider what I write here.

I am saddened, appalled, angry and downright disgusted by the fact that my car IS NOT FIXED. Your team of technical experts, led I understand by Phil Neal the BMW UK Technical Manager and Steve Corrie, gave assurances that "the issues with the vehicle have been resolved" and that I "should be comfortable going back into it".

So imagine my unbridled anger when, on test driving the car with Steve Corrie present, I discover that the car DOES NOT DRIVE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. The car still physically TURNS to the left, regardless of road camber - the steering wheel STILL needs to be held off centre for the car to track properly, and the effort required to hold the steering wheel to the right to achieve this is STILL considerable. This is the exact same problem I reported previously, the exact same problem which has required the car to be KDSd THREE TIMES, and the exact same problem that I was given assurances over that it was finally fixed.

Steve Corrie informs me that on the test drive on Thursday, the steering wheel was straight, the car tracked straight and true, and that there were no problems with the drive. On driving my car today, Steve himself admits that there is something wrong, and that it is not in an acceptable state to be returned to me.

Now, I don't know what is going on. I don't know whether the imcompetency lies with your BMW UK Technical Manager, or Steve the Assitant Service Manager, or Matt the Senior Technician who supposedly was working on my car. Someone somewhere is incompetent. Given this is NOT the first time I have complained about the alignment, and even after three separate KDS checks, I am amazed that the actual steering setup, the steering rack, the bushes, have not been checked for uneven wear or faults.

Before I test-drove the car, I took the liberty of checking the tyre pressures... RL 2.7bar, RR 2.7bar, FL 2.6bar, FR 2.1bar

What does that tell me about the thoroughness of the team at Sytners?

What are you lot playing at? Are you all incapable of fixing this car? Are you all just reading off computers and if there are no fault codes, you assume there is nothing wrong with the car? It is outrageous that after all the problems, after all the emails, after all the assurances, that I am handed back my car which still has an original fault present.

Simon and Steve - you both have expressed your sorrow that I feel my relationship with Sytners is almost over. I tell you why it is almost over - because I have zero confidence in the Harold Wood dealership in being able to service my car and repair my car to satisfactory standards. It is even more amusing that your BMW UK Technical Manager has become involved and given his approval to the repair of a car which is still faulty. What confidence does this even give me in BMW UK?

I am beyond angry and can only laugh now at the sheer absurdity of the whole thing. I am a constant source of amusement with my fellow BMW club members now, as since October 30 I have been reporting on the progress of the repair of my car. They are laughing at me because I have been driving loan cars for the last three months. They are laughing because they don't even think I'll get my car back for the meet I am co-hosting with BMW Car Magazine at the beginning of December. Even more amusing now is that Styner Harold Wood and BMW UK are the butt of the jokes and are the laughing stock of the forum. I had one forum member post a public message saying that when he brought his E39 M5 into Harold Wood for service, one of the technicians replaced an O2 sensor, but fitted it backwards or in reverse. Of couse, the car was returned to the customer and on discovering it was still faulty, given back to Sytners for rectification. Only Graham, one of the more senior technicians, managed to discover what the fault was as all the other technicians struggled to diagnose the problem that they originally created. Of course, the O2 sensor was refitted, and the MAF replaced as that was damaged as a result. Now, this customer who lives only 100 yards away from Harold Wood, refuses to ever go back there.

Since 30 October when I first made public that my car had gone wrong again, that particular forum thread or subject has been viewed 1302 times to date. I would imagine that by Monday morning, the view count will be up near the 1400 mark. Do you not realise that your constant failures are tarnishing your reputation?

I stated quite clearly that if my car was still in a faulty state, that I would be vociferous in my damnation. How much are the hourly labour rates at a BMW dealership? £90 per hour? £110 per hour? For what? For an incompetent team of technicians?

I want to know exactly what you, as a collective, are going to do about my car. Steve, we discussed that instead of relying on the KDS, your technician should manually adjust the tie-rods until the car tracks straight and true. I have been thinking about this - this is not an acceptable solution, as if the car ever needs to go for a KDS again the problem will manifest itself again and it will be back to square one.

If all of you collectively still claim that you all did your jobs accurately, the car is setup to specifications via the KDS and you can not find fault with the running gear, then obviously there is something fundamentally wrong with the car. And if in this case, my solicitor will seek the support of Trading Standards and will demand a replacement car under the Sale of Goods Act as obviously it is not of merchantable quality as there is something inherently faulty.

Gentlemen, you need to take this seriously, as I am done being nice.

Fix my car.

Last edited by E92Fan; 11-11-2007 at 02:51 AM.
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      11-11-2007, 02:33 AM   #106
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E92

Go straight to the head of BMW Customer Service. Have all your dates and contacts with the dealer, head office, etc written down. Why waste your breath on anyone else at this stage.
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      11-11-2007, 04:18 AM   #107
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I am outraged on your behalf e92 - this is unbelievable. Good email - hopefully they will do the right thing andreplace your car - I would be involving solicitors at this point.
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      11-11-2007, 04:36 AM   #108
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E92 Gibbo's bang on, you have gone as far as you can with the local dealer.

You have no choice you must go higher, even if they fix it now I would still be chasing heavily for compensation.

You need someone with more clout than the local dealer to make some real decision or change to the way things are going.

I really feel for you, i couldnt even start to understand your level of frustration.

I wonder if anyone has got any contacts so that you can get to the right person at BMW?
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      11-11-2007, 04:48 AM   #109
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e92 fan .. I'm sorry about your continued problems.

However, there is some good news here. They have finally witnessed the fault and agreed that it is real. That's actually 90% of the problem and I think you can be confident that it will be fixed now.

Personally - I would ditch the emails. The last one sounds angry rather than assertive and whilst this is understandable, it's not going to get your problems resolved any faster. Instead people will get defensive and hence distracted. I also wouldn't bother escalating this now.

My job is essentially to persuade people that their priority is to do the things I want them to do.

You don't get that result by letter writing. Instead you need to be on the top of everyones to do list at all times. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. You have the moral high ground here, so I would try to retain that, stay assertive but keep emotion out of it.

You need to bear in mind that no-one wants to fail or be crap at their jobs, but many many people are. In any field maybe 10% know what they are doing 50% are slightly competant and the rest are an abject waste of space.

You need to work with the tools you have - which are these technicians. Get them in the same place you are - convinced your car is broken and that you are being given poor service which their dealership should be embarrassed about. Once they are in the mindset you want them to be in, they will be jumping every time you ring or drop into the dealer.

Good luck, as I said I think you are 90% of the way there now.
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      11-11-2007, 05:46 AM   #110
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FFS E92 this is now beyond funny

a NEW car - Simple as.

feel for you
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