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      04-03-2014, 02:41 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
ah, that's a good analogy. I'm all for model proliferation and cost-cutting, modular platform sharing, etc... it's how the business is and if you can find the car YOU like, who cares if BMW is also making several other models you DONT like.

but, the recent criticism of modern F-series BMWs has been that the very virtues they were once known for have slowly been diluted to the point where the competition has caught up (or passed them depending on which reviews you read). What we're talking about is direct steering connection to the road, that perfect compliant yet firm BASE suspension, linear predictability during cornering.

I don't think the two issue have to be related (proliferation of lineup + loss of core handling/steering characteristics), but it does seem like it's been heading that way.
it's amazing the lack of understanding (and carping from Bimwads) regarding electric steering.

Electric steering does not = driving feel death. If that were the case then how would the Porsche Cayman be considered one of the best handling vehicles with what is perceived as the best steering feel available on the market today?

The simple fact is that BMW had a poor algorithim for electric steering on it's first try. Porsche did a better job on their electric steering.

BMW M has COMPLETELY redesigned their EPS for the new M3/M4... and ... BMW AG has issued updates for F30 models.
The updates are easy to apply as a FIRMWARE update.. meaning all the " bad" examples can be updated with a trip to the dealer.

I bet you GM and Chevrolet wish they could apply updates like this....

Perusing different forums... it is evident that owners that have driven multiple F30 models over the last few years have indicated improvement in the system in that model.


And of course... Car & Driver did a comparison of HPS vs. EPS on the F10 xDrive cars:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature

They have this to say: "After griping about EPS for years, the shocking revelation is that C/D’s editorial staff preferred BMW’s electric system over its hydraulic assistance. Total votes in seven out of ten rating categories favored EPS by two to eight points each. Hydraulic shined in only the three Feedback categories where it won the on-center comparison by four points and tied with EPS in our middle-of-maneuver and at-cornering-extremes performance ratings"


Perhaps BMW owners will eventually evolve along with their EPS?
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      04-03-2014, 02:45 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Yes the most expensive BMW Group car is yet to materialise.

But it will be an exclusive Rolls-Royce Roadster based on a shortened version of the next Phantom series which uses an updated version of the previously shown V16 engine earmarked for the next Phantom.
But will be upgraded to accommodate new fuel saving efficient measures such as an update of BMWs cylinder dimming introduced on the LCI F01 which in a revised form will feature with the new 7er.
Essentially you are looking at a close to a million dollars Rolls-Royce...

And it will sell.

The importance of commitment to the high end luxury market is that in 2015 it is projected that China will reach 1 million units of luxury vehicles.
SUVs in the luxury segment are a current example that is why there is now finally an X7 due to action and reaction.

It makes sense to launch this car in China because it is conceived for the above cause. There has been a lot of progress for BMW in China , the high end BMW 7er largest market is now China and of course BMWs largest market is now China. Again action and reaction.

If we strip down the upcoming concept in its bare essence it is the vision for 3 cars . The 7er , X7 and 8er (Gran Lusso inspired Coupe for 2016)
But recently in Munich we have asked about how to take luxury and BMW into the next decade. There is unanimous agreement that the Rolls-Royce Ghost will be the entry point for Rolls-Royce. Ghost is downmarket enough.

But we have always talked about a bridge to Rolls-Royce from BMW meeting halfway between the brands with their individual philosophies.
The concept is a probable but as of now remains an anomaly.
If you look beyond the concept and focus on the new philosophies in engineering , drivetrain , design , technology and connectivity it is the new BMW 7er.

When we announced the next 7er will be the most advanced BMW ever we were not lying. The 7er leads proliferation of its new philosophy across the BMW portfolio.

And this is what awaits our competitors in 2015 and then....
Any BMW M1 successor (maybe M100?) planned for BMW's 100th anniversary?
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      04-03-2014, 04:37 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W12x
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Yes the most expensive BMW Group car is yet to materialise.

But it will be an exclusive Rolls-Royce Roadster based on a shortened version of the next Phantom series which uses an updated version of the previously shown V16 engine earmarked for the next Phantom.
But will be upgraded to accommodate new fuel saving efficient measures such as an update of BMWs cylinder dimming introduced on the LCI F01 which in a revised form will feature with the new 7er.
Essentially you are looking at a close to a million dollars Rolls-Royce...

And it will sell.

The importance of commitment to the high end luxury market is that in 2015 it is projected that China will reach 1 million units of luxury vehicles.
SUVs in the luxury segment are a current example that is why there is now finally an X7 due to action and reaction.

It makes sense to launch this car in China because it is conceived for the above cause. There has been a lot of progress for BMW in China , the high end BMW 7er largest market is now China and of course BMWs largest market is now China. Again action and reaction.

If we strip down the upcoming concept in its bare essence it is the vision for 3 cars . The 7er , X7 and 8er (Gran Lusso inspired Coupe for 2016)
But recently in Munich we have asked about how to take luxury and BMW into the next decade. There is unanimous agreement that the Rolls-Royce Ghost will be the entry point for Rolls-Royce. Ghost is downmarket enough.

But we have always talked about a bridge to Rolls-Royce from BMW meeting halfway between the brands with their individual philosophies.
The concept is a probable but as of now remains an anomaly.
If you look beyond the concept and focus on the new philosophies in engineering , drivetrain , design , technology and connectivity it is the new BMW 7er.

When we announced the next 7er will be the most advanced BMW ever we were not lying. The 7er leads proliferation of its new philosophy across the BMW portfolio.

And this is what awaits our competitors in 2015 and then....
Any BMW M1 successor (maybe M100?) planned for BMW's 100th anniversary?
+1 the BMW M was referred to by Scott recently...

I sincerely hope we get a small range of seriously good super cars. Porsche and McLaren look very attractive in this market currently.

An M and MM would be good, something pitched at £100-120k to take on the 911 group and something £160-180k to take on McLaren.

Would have the market practically sewn up with those.
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      04-03-2014, 05:49 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by palpatine_us View Post
We want BMW 18 wheelers/Semis. Let's call them 18 Series.
MB and Volvo all make and sell trucks in many sizes...a few of them show up here. Does that make MB cars any less because of it, or Volvo's?

Get a grip...
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      04-03-2014, 06:27 PM   #71
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Why not try and make the 7 series a better car before going bigger? The reviews for that car are abysmal so what makes them think a larger version of an already huge car would be successful?
+1 Exactly what I was thinking.
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      04-03-2014, 07:50 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
MB and Volvo all make and sell trucks in many sizes...a few of them show up here. Does that make MB cars any less because of it, or Volvo's?
yes, and yes.
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      04-03-2014, 07:54 PM   #73
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It doesn't seem to bother MB or Volvo car owners...
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      04-03-2014, 08:27 PM   #74
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I don't know what you're trying to say here, but EPS can definitely be done right. This isn't a knock on EPS. Bimmer fans shouldn't have to buy a 70-80k m3 to get good steering feel. My $38k e90 328i had such better body roll characteristics, steering feel and corner limits than my $57k f30 335i. And I have the latest steering updates as it's a 2014.
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      04-03-2014, 10:13 PM   #75
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+1 the BMW M was referred to by Scott recently...

I sincerely hope we get a small range of seriously good super cars. Porsche and McLaren look very attractive in this market currently.

An M and MM would be good, something pitched at £100-120k to take on the 911 group and something £160-180k to take on McLaren.

Would have the market practically sewn up with those.
Well one thing for sure if BMW is going to make a super M it will have a lot of CFRP and possibly a hybrid system of some kind (something like the upcoming NSX, not 918/P1 level stuff), basically a Twin Turbo V8 (Don't think the S55 will cut it unless they do some MAJOR modification) + hybrid system, outputting a little more HP than the current M5/M6 Competition Package while cutting tons of weight.

I suspect that BMW will develop such hybrid system based on the one in i8, but this one will be a lot more performance orientated. Price wise, it will probably be 75% or 100% more expensive than the i8.

BMW M Centennial, something like that, lol.
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      04-03-2014, 10:17 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
I don't know what you're trying to say here, but EPS can definitely be done right. This isn't a knock on EPS. Bimmer fans shouldn't have to buy a 70-80k m3 to get good steering feel. My $38k e90 328i had such better body roll characteristics, steering feel and corner limits than my $57k f30 335i. And I have the latest steering updates as it's a 2014.
Maybe BMW will offer two choice of EPS on the 3 series down the road, one version similar to the M3's for people who are more performance minded, and one version similar to the current 3 series one for people buying the car for regular DD.

As much as I like a sport oriented EPS, that's not something the average BMW 3 series owner are really looking for. I know quite a few people who like the F3x better than E9x because it feels more comfortable, laid back, and effortless for DD.
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      04-03-2014, 10:19 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
MB and Volvo all make and sell trucks in many sizes...a few of them show up here. Does that make MB cars any less because of it, or Volvo's?

Get a grip...
I think the MB trucks department is actually very profitable and their trucks are very dependable, that particular department was considered to be a very valuable asset to MB according to some investment groups.
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      04-04-2014, 12:17 AM   #78
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Don't forget to put this on when you drive the 9 series.
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      04-04-2014, 11:22 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
It doesn't seem to bother MB or Volvo car owners...
I noticed you bought a 5er GT. There's a reason for that. You could have bought a Benz or a Volvo, but you didn't. I'm going to guess you bought the 5er GT because it's a better car. There's a reason for that.
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      04-04-2014, 11:23 AM   #80
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Don't forget to put this on when you drive the 9 series.
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      04-04-2014, 11:25 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W12x
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
I don't know what you're trying to say here, but EPS can definitely be done right. This isn't a knock on EPS. Bimmer fans shouldn't have to buy a 70-80k m3 to get good steering feel. My $38k e90 328i had such better body roll characteristics, steering feel and corner limits than my $57k f30 335i. And I have the latest steering updates as it's a 2014.
Maybe BMW will offer two choice of EPS on the 3 series down the road, one version similar to the M3's for people who are more performance minded, and one version similar to the current 3 series one for people buying the car for regular DD.

As much as I like a sport oriented EPS, that's not something the average BMW 3 series owner are really looking for. I know quite a few people who like the F3x better than E9x because it feels more comfortable, laid back, and effortless for DD.
Good idea however BMW are already criticised in some circles for making too much good stuff optional...
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      04-04-2014, 11:27 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W12x
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
+1 the BMW M was referred to by Scott recently...

I sincerely hope we get a small range of seriously good super cars. Porsche and McLaren look very attractive in this market currently.

An M and MM would be good, something pitched at £100-120k to take on the 911 group and something £160-180k to take on McLaren.

Would have the market practically sewn up with those.
Well one thing for sure if BMW is going to make a super M it will have a lot of CFRP and possibly a hybrid system of some kind (something like the upcoming NSX, not 918/P1 level stuff), basically a Twin Turbo V8 (Don't think the S55 will cut it unless they do some MAJOR modification) + hybrid system, outputting a little more HP than the current M5/M6 Competition Package while cutting tons of weight.

I suspect that BMW will develop such hybrid system based on the one in i8, but this one will be a lot more performance orientated. Price wise, it will probably be 75% or 100% more expensive than the i8.

BMW M Centennial, something like that, lol.
Yeah I hope you're right (not that I could justify spending that on a car ATM).

The name is tricky, I expect M, M1, M10 or M100 will be most likely... However M Centurion might work (unless that name is already in use somewhere)

We haven't had M Racing yet...
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      04-04-2014, 12:32 PM   #83
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Was this monstrosity supposed to look like a goblin shark?

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/sh...blin-shark.htm
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      04-04-2014, 01:06 PM   #84
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Hi, Scott (and everyone around here!)
You'd talked befor about a new concept that would be presented during Villa d'Este's Concorso de Eleganza.
It has arised that the recent announcement of Bertones bankruptcy could possibly spell the end of a cooperative effort between BMW and the Italian design firm, under which collaboration was going to be produced a concept for introduction at this years Villa dEste.

Is it true or the Villa d'Este concept hasn't anything to do with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Yes the most expensive BMW Group car is yet to materialise.

But it will be an exclusive Rolls-Royce Roadster based on a shortened version of the next Phantom series which uses an updated version of the previously shown V16 engine earmarked for the next Phantom.
But will be upgraded to accommodate new fuel saving efficient measures such as an update of BMWs cylinder dimming introduced on the LCI F01 which in a revised form will feature with the new 7er.
Essentially you are looking at a close to a million dollars Rolls-Royce...

And it will sell.

The importance of commitment to the high end luxury market is that in 2015 it is projected that China will reach 1 million units of luxury vehicles.
SUVs in the luxury segment are a current example that is why there is now finally an X7 due to action and reaction.

It makes sense to launch this car in China because it is conceived for the above cause. There has been a lot of progress for BMW in China , the high end BMW 7er largest market is now China and of course BMWs largest market is now China. Again action and reaction.

If we strip down the upcoming concept in its bare essence it is the vision for 3 cars . The 7er , X7 and 8er (Gran Lusso inspired Coupe for 2016)
But recently in Munich we have asked about how to take luxury and BMW into the next decade. There is unanimous agreement that the Rolls-Royce Ghost will be the entry point for Rolls-Royce. Ghost is downmarket enough.

But we have always talked about a bridge to Rolls-Royce from BMW meeting halfway between the brands with their individual philosophies.
The concept is a probable but as of now remains an anomaly.
If you look beyond the concept and focus on the new philosophies in engineering , drivetrain , design , technology and connectivity it is the new BMW 7er.

When we announced the next 7er will be the most advanced BMW ever we were not lying. The 7er leads proliferation of its new philosophy across the BMW portfolio.

And this is what awaits our competitors in 2015 and then....
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      04-04-2014, 06:14 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle B View Post
I noticed you bought a 5er GT. There's a reason for that. You could have bought a Benz or a Volvo, but you didn't. I'm going to guess you bought the 5er GT because it's a better car. There's a reason for that.
If you're inferring that I bought a BMW because MB and Volvo make trucks as well, you're way out of there...I bought the BMW because I fit in it (the only sedan in MB I fit was an S-series...way too much money and not as flexible as the GT with the hatchback and the Volvos just don't fit right, either). I fit, primarily because it is built on the 7-series chassis. Forget the SUV and other bigger vehicles...I'd rather have a sedan.

The average American is WAY too caught up in perceptions and preconceived notions. People elsewhere just look at the car, if it meets their need, they don't generally care what others think about it (there will always be some that are looking to one-up their neighbors, but I'm talking about the average person). Elsewhere, brands like BMW and MB are considered high quality, but not necessarily luxury brands, since much of what is standard in the USA (leather, bigger motors, power this and that) are all optional...IOW, you can buy a car that looks the same on the outside, and sometimes get it for a major amount less than what it is sold for here. The guts of the vehicle retain the same level of engineering, and thus handling, but may come with fabric seats that you have to manually adjust, etc.
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      04-06-2014, 12:26 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Its our new DNA concept.
Its a concept that alludes to BMWs vision of the luxury market in three proposals.

A luxury sedan , luxury SAV , luxury Coupe. It's not a hybrid of merging body shells to form a new niche as you would expect from BMW.

But it gives clues to the DNA and vision that will be found in three upcoming specific BMW luxury models. Its an entirely new vision that showcases Many advances through engineering , design , technology and connectivity.

And it is going to be a reality....in 2015.
Then in 2017. But it is going to filter down the model lines.
Scott, is the concept going to be revealed sometime during next week?
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      04-06-2014, 05:33 PM   #87
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Scott, is the concept going to be revealed sometime during next week?
It will be revealed I think on the week of the NYIAS , although it will not be shown in New York.

Like the Gran Coupe concept in 2010. There will be a live broadcast from Beijing, details will follow shortly on the car and the live broadcast.
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      04-07-2014, 01:12 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
Scott, is the concept going to be revealed sometime during next week?
It will be revealed I think on the week of the NYIAS , although it will not be shown in New York.

Like the Gran Coupe concept in 2010. There will be a live broadcast from Beijing, details will follow shortly on the car and the live broadcast.
That is exciting news. Please can you tell us anything about the BMW M yet?
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