E90Post
 


MINHS Auto Care Center
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > tuners-How long til 500whp??



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-25-2007, 06:32 PM   #23
vbb
Lieutenant
 
Drives: Lexus ISF
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: present

Posts: 446
iTrader: (4)

I would imagine that once the car gets much over the power levels we are already seeing tuners reach (400whp) the car will have lost many of the qualities that makes it a nice daily driver. More power to you if you pick a 335i for a track car/garage queen... but I don't want to lose all of the qualities that makes it such a great driver's car. I know a lot of people from the Evo/STi world that started off with good intentions on their modding and then got all caught up in the goal to make more power. Almost all of them ended up with a car that they no longer enjoyed driving on a daily basis and sold it.

Just a thought.
vbb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 06:56 PM   #24
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

Posts: 455
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbocoins View Post
Without LSD, the car can't handle the power of V2, JB2, etc. very well. 500 hp without suspension, tranny, etc. upgrades would be useful only in certain situations.

I, for one, am looking forward to the evolution of the whole package, not just HP.
Fine, say I stroke a 12-15k check to a tuner for a for a 600chp car daily driver? READ MY INITIAL POST!!!

I guess you don't read well. MY initial post, not yours, asked when we will see 500whp, and I believe that I mentioned that I knew it would take significant component upgrades. READ!! Everyone here talks about the 'full package' etc. How many people have V2.0 and don't have a brake upgrade?

Since when is 400whp a 'streetable' amount of horsepower? This place is ridiculous when someone asks a hypothetical and gets a bunch of 'why not be satisfied?' responses. Puhlease, if YOU were satisfied you'd live with 1.47 or SSTT or whatever.

My goal is to have a car that exceeds the M3 in power to weight ratio beyond 500chp. Is that attainable? What are implications on a daily driver? Larger turbos mean larger lag? Is there no way to write code to have them spool faster? This is 2007 not 1997. We're not driving Supras. I also would like a car that costs less, with mods, than an equally optioned M3...otherwise this tuning gig isn't worth the ROI. Just my opinion.
wahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:00 PM   #25
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
Fine, say I stroke a 12-15k check for a 600chp car? READ MY INITIAL POST!!!

I guess you don't read well. MY initial post, not yours, asked when we will see 500whp, and I believe that I mentioned that I knew it would take significant component upgrades. READ!! Everyone here talks about the 'full package' etc. How many people have V2.0 and don't have a brake upgrade?
The personal insults are not necessary or appropriate, despite the fact that the premise of your point is correct. BTW, I read quite well.
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:07 PM   #26
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

Posts: 455
iTrader: (0)

Fine. But you obviously neglected to read and respond to the original question....so why bother answering if you can't contribute. I already acknowledged that there are other items requiring upgrading.

Since when is saying "READ" a personal insult. Grow a backbone. This is an internet forum, not a day care.

FWIW, the Z06 is what I'd prefer to have but I have a 2yo., hence my initial questions. What mods do you have on the Z?
wahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:09 PM   #27
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
Fine. But you obviously neglected to read and respond to the original question....so why bother answering if you can't contribute. I already acknowledged that there are other items requiring upgrading.

Since when is saying "READ" a personal insult. Grow a backbone. This is an internet forum, not a day care.

FWIW, the Z06 is what I'd prefer to have but I have a 2yo., hence my initial questions. What mods do you have on the Z?
Same response as before. I have a fantastic backbone. I'm merely pointing out that you, sir, are responding inappropriately.
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:11 PM   #28
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
FWIW, the Z06 is what I'd prefer to have but I have a 2yo., hence my initial questions. What mods do you have on the Z?
No mods. New car 2 weeks ago. Just sold my 335 i.
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:13 PM   #29
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

Posts: 455
iTrader: (0)

My apologies...but if you look at the bulk of the responses most of them were in the 'love what you have' etc., or, 'it will take larger turbos', or 'It won't be driveable' vein. I'm not trying to start a pissing match but I asked the same question 6mos ago with a poll and received the same type of responses with no real answers.

The Z is the penultimate sports car, IMO. I could certainly forgo some of the luxuries of the 3 for that exhaust note - I just can't do 2 doors at the moment. Time cures all ills.

Why did you sell the 3?
wahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:14 PM   #30
Neema
Major General
 
Neema's Avatar
 
Drives: a few BMWs
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal

Posts: 7,186
iTrader: (11)

oh brother..
__________________

LTMW Widebody+1M front bumper+Slek CF Lip|M3 Hood|StopTech BBK|M-Sport Rear Bumper+DD CF Diffuser|Custom Recaro Seats|KW V2|BavX LS3|M3 Side Skirts+Custom CF Lip|BBS CHR 19x10.5+BBS Lugs|LCI Taillights|RD Sport Anti-Sway Bars|GIAC S2|ER Intercooler+CF Shroud+Charge Pipe|Tial BOV|Injen Intake|MS downpipes|Custom Exhaust|BMS Oil Catch Can|M3 DCT wheel+TiD CF Paddles|BMW CF Trunk Spoiler|Aluminum Pedals
Neema is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:16 PM   #31
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
My apologies...but if you look at the bulk of the responses most of them were in the 'love what you have' etc., or, 'it will take larger turbos', or 'It won't be driveable' vein. I'm not trying to start a pissing match but I asked the same question 6mos ago with a poll and received the same type of responses with no real answers.
No problem. I hope the answer to your question is "soon". The car is a tremendous platform on which to improve. Judging by the 3.0 L Supra TT, the 335 i TT has LOTS of room to go with a few important upgrades to turbos and fuel supply.
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:16 PM   #32
revah2
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posts: 555
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rez90 View Post
and you base this on what?
Cause I mean after you finish getting a turbo upgrade. Gona have to change suspension, tires, transmission and the dollars really start rolling in. Not to mention any reliability problems along the way.
revah2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:18 PM   #33
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
The Z is the penultimate sports car, IMO. I could certainly forgo some of the luxuries of the 3 for that exhaust note - I just can't do 2 doors at the moment. Time cures all ills.

Why did you sell the 3?
I have a Lincoln MKZ as a family vehicle, as well, so the 2 doors is fine.

I am impatient, and didn't want to wait for 500 HP. Liked the car, but I wanted what everyone else on this board wants. No regrets, but I would return to the car in a minute (and probably will in the future).
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:18 PM   #34
turbocoins
Captain
 
turbocoins's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warm Climate

Posts: 751
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost_Nation View Post
oh brother..
Sorry, don't mean to hijack.
turbocoins is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:22 PM   #35
Carnage
Lieutenant General
 
Carnage's Avatar
 
Drives: people insane
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: classified

Posts: 16,404
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *****ed335BMW View Post
This car could def hit 500 whp with new turbos, manifold, and with fuel and timing upgrades, it is only a matter of time before a kit comes out for this car creating crazy horsepower and torque............

I mean you can look at many other cars creating major horsepower and torque with kits, for one the B5 S4........
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger View Post
.....they'll be few and far between, one-off/custom jobs that arent meant to be daily drivers.
will someone hit 500 RWHP at some point, yes. Will it take all the things listed above and maybe more, yes. I won't be surprised if someone does a custom job and gets there by the end of the year (EOY being 08 not 07). As far as kits go, it's probably another year+ after that, if at all. With the cost and the amount of parts involved, it doesn't seem like a good business move to put that much effort into something with a very limited number of people to market it to, but I'm sure someone will do it. The fact that we're hearing little to nothing about that level of R&D going on speaks volume about when something that like will appear.

It may not seem possible but just look at the turbo kit HFP built for the E46 M3. That got it to HP levels people though the car would never reach but it took years to get to market and it costs 16K+. Will the upgrades necessary to reach 500 RWHP costs 16K, hope not. But even at half that price, you're not going have to more than weekend race warriors and people with money to burn and no cares about the warranty getting it. The only problem is after messing with all the things it will take to reach that number and keep it on the road in one piece, everything BMW dialed into the car to make it great will be gone and who knows what will be left.

Last edited by Carnage; 11-25-2007 at 07:41 PM.
Carnage is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:55 PM   #36
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

Posts: 455
iTrader: (0)

I still don't understand what will be lost once someone hits this benchmark. As far as the R&D goes, I think HPF missed the boat on the e46 M3...its completely and utterly silly...there is no traction whatsoever.

I think with an LSD and other obvious mods...oh, nevermind.


This place is absolutely hysterical. I get looked at funny by asking a serious question about a performance mod with a high hp output. Then, I get answers that basically say, "why do you want 500hp?" I find it completely ironic and funny that folks with every conceivable aesthetic mod, carbon fiber, new spoiler, tint, whatever equaling some outrageous amount of money discusses ROI about engine modifications, AFTER they do a warranty nulling modification with a tune. Pot meet kettle. Honestly. Yes, I want an outrageous amount of horsepower.

Why does everyone think the 'package' the BMW created is unable to sustain high horsepower? Suspension wise, negative camber on your 20" dubs negatively affects the 'package' that BMW created. If you want real suspension, then get Motron or go home. The idea that riding on KWs on the street makes 'sense' is absolutely hysterical. YOu are using NONE of the adjustability of the shocks when you negate engineering for aesthetics and slaming your ride. The ALMS Porsche teams run 19", not 20, not 18. 19s. The same with the PTG team that ran in ALMS. I'm not interested in blinged out, deep dish ride. I want performance and German engineered one at that. I never plan to put on after market wheel other than BBS, period.

All the folks dumping $$$$ into every conceivable modification, and then ask, with a straight face, why I want a high horsepower BMW is simply stunning.

End rant.
wahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 07:56 PM   #37
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

Posts: 455
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbb View Post
I would imagine that once the car gets much over the power levels we are already seeing tuners reach (400whp) the car will have lost many of the qualities that makes it a nice daily driver. More power to you if you pick a 335i for a track car/garage queen... but I don't want to lose all of the qualities that makes it such a great driver's car. I know a lot of people from the Evo/STi world that started off with good intentions on their modding and then got all caught up in the goal to make more power. Almost all of them ended up with a car that they no longer enjoyed driving on a daily basis and sold it.

Just a thought.
What qualities are you speaking of that won't
be present when 500whp is obtained?
wahoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 09:17 PM   #38
abmw
Private First Class
 
abmw's Avatar
 
Drives: 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MN

Posts: 132
iTrader: (0)

For the record, I would love to see 500whp as well!! If a turbo rework/ecu upgrade could get us there and it were proven to be reliable, I would probably go for it!! I would love to see what a 500whp xi would launch like!!!
__________________
2008 335xi Coupe - Sapphire Black, Black Dakota, Gray Poplar, Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, Steptronic/Paddles, Comfort Access, HD, IPOD.
abmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 09:28 PM   #39
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
 
shiv@vishnu's Avatar
 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

Posts: 17,611
iTrader: (0)

450whp seems absolutely do-able with factory turbos. As others have said, 500whp may be a stretch without bigger snails.

shiv
shiv@vishnu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 09:35 PM   #40
rideelement247
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 335i, 67 Camaro SS
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Florida

Posts: 1,677
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to rideelement247
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
I still don't understand what will be lost once someone hits this benchmark. As far as the R&D goes, I think HPF missed the boat on the e46 M3...its completely and utterly silly...there is no traction whatsoever.

I think with an LSD and other obvious mods...oh, nevermind.


This place is absolutely hysterical. I get looked at funny by asking a serious question about a performance mod with a high hp output. Then, I get answers that basically say, "why do you want 500hp?" I find it completely ironic and funny that folks with every conceivable aesthetic mod, carbon fiber, new spoiler, tint, whatever equaling some outrageous amount of money discusses ROI about engine modifications, AFTER they do a warranty nulling modification with a tune. Pot meet kettle. Honestly. Yes, I want an outrageous amount of horsepower.

Why does everyone think the 'package' the BMW created is unable to sustain high horsepower? Suspension wise, negative camber on your 20" dubs negatively affects the 'package' that BMW created. If you want real suspension, then get Motron or go home. The idea that riding on KWs on the street makes 'sense' is absolutely hysterical. YOu are using NONE of the adjustability of the shocks when you negate engineering for aesthetics and slaming your ride. The ALMS Porsche teams run 19", not 20, not 18. 19s. The same with the PTG team that ran in ALMS. I'm not interested in blinged out, deep dish ride. I want performance and German engineered one at that. I never plan to put on after market wheel other than BBS, period.

All the folks dumping $$$$ into every conceivable modification, and then ask, with a straight face, why I want a high horsepower BMW is simply stunning.

End rant.
Well, you asked if 500whp is attainable, so I guess I will give you the answer you DESIRE: yes.

If you can drop crazy amounts of money by telling a custom fab shop "hi, I don't know much, just give it 500whp, money is no object", then you could probably see results in days. That is, if you have enough money to buy a shop, all its workers, all its tools, pay them off to drop all other projects, etc.. for how long it takes them to figure out how to rework your car.

People on here weren't bashing you for wanting 500whp, hell we all do. They were just advising you upgrade suspension, etc. so that your car remains safe. Imagine having 500whp and going WOT from a redlight into the nearest tree. Not too helpful without supporting mods keeping you going a straight line.

And others were giving you a time frame so that you can have somewhat of an idea of when companies are going to produce things to get you that 500whp mark. It will probably be next year. The engine is probably built to endure the extra stress, but you might need stronger pistons, and DEF. bigger injectors to handle the load. No bolt-on is going to produce that much power on this car without someone getting down and dirty and working it out, which involves the unfortunate possibility of blowing an engine. No one who owns a car for ~1 year, wants it destroyed like that. So people are going to rework the turbos, dial up boost a little bit at a time, then when knock occurs, deliver more fuel via software or injectors, the up boost again, etc. It take a lot of time and work to get this increase in horsepower...you can't just up your boost to 35psi, hoping for 500whp. Look at shiv, he had to write software working and reworking on boost levels, timing, etc. to provide power and stability.
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
rideelement247 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 09:48 PM   #41
boosted305
Private First Class
 
Drives: 335i Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South Florida

Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
450whp seems absolutely do-able with factory turbos. As others have said, 500whp may be a stretch without bigger snails.

shiv


finally...a real answer to the question w/o all the extra BS

thanks shiv
boosted305 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 10:32 PM   #42
zenmaster
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: '13 AH3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta

Posts: 1,610
iTrader: (1)

On those bigger turbos, how much over 450whp could you go without needing supplementary fuel (different/extra injectors different/extra pump) or a meth system?
zenmaster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 10:39 PM   #43
B00sted335BMW
Banned
 
Drives: Boosted
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NY

Posts: 173
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
On those bigger turbos, how much over 450whp could you go without needing supplementary fuel (different/extra injectors different/extra pump) or a meth system?

No one knows the true answer........they can give you estimates (which could be wrong), but you guys are def asking people that haven't even done those mods or even tuned those turbos on the car yet.
B00sted335BMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-25-2007, 10:39 PM   #44
ArmyBimmerDude
Major General
 
ArmyBimmerDude's Avatar
 
Drives: Lola
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Georgia

Posts: 5,503
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to ArmyBimmerDude Send a message via Yahoo to ArmyBimmerDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbocoins View Post
No problem. I hope the answer to your question is "soon". The car is a tremendous platform on which to improve. Judging by the 3.0 L Supra TT, the 335 i TT has LOTS of room to go with a few important upgrades to turbos and fuel supply.
The N54 isn't as strong as the 2JZ-GTE. I think it can handle 500whp, but thats where I stop and let the guinea pigs test and break their engines before I do anything like that.
__________________
2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
ArmyBimmerDude is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST