E90Post
 


ECS BMW
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Dump the 800 lb Gorilla (Weight Reduction)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-13-2007, 01:39 AM   #45
longodj
Major
 
longodj's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY

Posts: 1,288
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 335xi  [0.00]
1974 VW Beetle  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to longodj
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbert View Post
So then why did you start out with a 335xi? At least start with the rwd version.

You don't have to rationalize your decisions to a bunch of random people most of whom you will never meet. But if you feel the need to convince these people (and yourself), at least come up with a better reason than that.
lol, once again, the 335xi was a practical car for me given where I am physically and where I am in life. What I mean by I'd rather start with a platform is ok, given a car....the 335, now what can we do to make it better. Well obviously we can make it more powerful, but it has some pretty blatant handling weaknesses that we should probably address first. I don't see a fault in starting with the xi anyway, both have their pros and cons.
longodj is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-14-2007, 04:37 PM   #46
e90_DriftStar
Captain
 
e90_DriftStar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E93 335i
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 758
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to e90_DriftStar
get a 240 and drop a sr20 Black Top and get ready to ride
__________________
e90_DriftStar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-16-2007, 02:04 PM   #47
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: F80 YMB
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 10,127
iTrader: (0)

Hotchkis hollow sways (not yet available), some coilovers, and some of the brake kits lower unsprung weight and have big performance benefits.

Too bad we don't have a sunroof delete option.
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      12-16-2007, 07:52 PM   #48
roy@gambitmotorsport
Something Else
 
roy@gambitmotorsport's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 335i coupe 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 216
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Too bad we don't have a sunroof delete option.
That was my hope, too. I've heard the motor and mounting frame add up to 30lbs or so, but that the frame serves a semi-structural purpose, so "disabling" it after the fact while leaving in the glass somehow isn't really an option.
roy@gambitmotorsport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-16-2007, 11:10 PM   #49
Hunter399
Major General
 
Hunter399's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 7,757
iTrader: (30)

Buy an E36 m3

Those make for really strong track cars
Hunter399 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2008, 11:09 AM   #50
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by longodj View Post
Hey Guys,
So, at the last autocross I went to, a WRX STI demolished every BMW in its tracks. The STI is 3300 lbs. My brother has been eyeballing a Porsche Cayman S and will probably be getting one before next autocross season, and I'm trying to get him into autocross. The Cayman S is 3000 lbs. My roommate drives a Nissan 240sx. 2800lbs

Now, I drive a 6MT 335xi E90. 3800lbs. My brother has pretty much always beat me at everything (except anything technical but that's a whole nother story for a whole nother day), so I'm looking to drop some weight from my car.

Hopefully this thread will stand as a central place to find where to drop weight from our cars. I'm looking to drop at least 200 lbs while still "feeling" stock and being daily drivable....i.e. while keeping my girlfriend from killing me every time she gets in my car Maybe in a year or so I'll jump for nice racing seats reupholstered to match my Terra but that's a bit too deep for my pockets atm. So by daily drivable I mean keep all audio/nav components, A/C, etc.

I fully understand that this is sort of ridiculous so please do not flame me, if you don't have anything helpful to say relating to this issue please do not post. I also fully understand that our cars aren't necessarily designed to be light and aren't the greatest to start with if looking for light. I ALSO understand that weight isn't everything, but hell WHY NOT drop a few pounds right? I'm already on a diet

Here's what I have found so far, although I don't know of most of the exact weight savings numbers... I don't know if I will personally be able to get well....any of these before next season but if I can get an idea I might be able to scrap some together :-P

-Wheels/Non-RFT Tires (Unsprung): ~45lbs
-Lightweight Battery (Rear): ~40 lbs (stat by HP Autowerks)
-CF Hood (Front): ~30lbs
-CF Boot (Rear): ~15lbs
-Exhaust (Center): ~20lbs
-Removing rear seats (Rear): ?? (for track days...)
-Replacing front seats (Front): ~80lbs (stat by HP Autowerks)

SUGGESTIONS:
-Headers
-LTW Control Arms
-Interior Panelling
-FMIC
-Downpipes
-Intake

Anyone know of any other permanentish mods that dump weight without damaging daily drivability? Preferably the mods would be in the front to dampen that 53/47 or so split we have going.

Thanks,
Dave

UPDATE May 31, 2008: My car weighs in at 3740 with Kosei K1/Bridgestone RE01R
I was curious about the exact same issue with my E9X M3, and started a similiar thread on the other forum some time ago. I was able to remove about 25lb of stuff from the stock setup that does does not affect driveability. Based on my research, I calculated that the next 100lbs will cost something in the order of $15k when you consider weight reduction only (you obviously get other benefits such as slight hp gains and rotational intertia reduction and so on from exhaust and wheel mods). Anyway, I documented what I found here (some of those mods might be relevant to the 335):

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ngs+benchmarks

Also, my E92 M3 came in 3497.5 lb on a scale at NHMS with half tank of gas, and no driver, which means it would come in at ~3550 lb with a full tank. (L: 1725.0 lbs
R: 1772.5 lbs) This is consistent with what magazines have been reporting.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2008, 09:42 PM   #51
DrDomer
Major
 
DrDomer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 330ci ZHP, 1999 Miata
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Iowa

Posts: 1,349
iTrader: (0)

Can buy a dedicated track car and a used TAG Kart for $15K. Both will be faster for Autocross than a semi-stripped luxury sports sedan.

I understand what you're trying to do, but it seems just too hard.
__________________
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. ~Albert Einstein
DrDomer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-14-2008, 12:12 AM   #52
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomer View Post
Can buy a dedicated track car and a used TAG Kart for $15K. Both will be faster for Autocross than a semi-stripped luxury sports sedan.

I understand what you're trying to do, but it seems just too hard.
This was really an exercise, which quickly revealed that it's not worth it. I am indeed looking around for a dedicated track car, but I'd still like to take another 50 lbs off via wheels and exhaust from my DD. Those are solid mods for other reasons, and should cost me around $6k.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-14-2008, 07:03 AM   #53
kenneth
Major General
 
kenneth's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal

Posts: 8,673
iTrader: (16)

Swap the xi for an i, you save 150-200 lbs. From there saving 200lbs will look much more interesting.
__________________
SB, Terra, 6MT. Only a few mods here and there.....nothing extreme!
kenneth is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-14-2008, 04:09 PM   #54
nicknaz
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2012 Z4 35i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego CA

Posts: 4,036
iTrader: (0)

chip it, drive the heck out of, get a 911 next time and don't worry about trying to make it 'win' at a DE... not worth the $
nicknaz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #55
335ievo
Your'e gonna learrrrrrnn tooooday
 
335ievo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i M Sport EB
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fullerton, CA

Posts: 587
iTrader: (1)

I say, do whatever you want to your car...its YOUR car!
__________________
2013 BMW 328i MSport F30 - Estoril Blue

"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." James Dewar
335ievo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2008, 02:02 AM   #56
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

Posts: 11,261
iTrader: (29)

I would get a CF hood to take some weight off the nose and top end of the vehicle.

Then get a pair of lightweight seats, you will not only lose weight, you will gain better driving position and get more feedback from your car.

Corner weight the car again and see where you are.

DP's will save you a few pounds, but not much. FMIC will only add weight.

Harold
HP Autosport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2008, 07:51 PM   #57
Closer_2001
Private First Class
 
Drives: 07 E90
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Slow Lane

Posts: 112
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by longodj View Post
Hey Guys,
So, at the last autocross I went to, a WRX STI demolished every BMW in its tracks. The STI is 3300 lbs. My brother has been eyeballing a Porsche Cayman S and will probably be getting one before next autocross season, and I'm trying to get him into autocross. The Cayman S is 3000 lbs. My roommate drives a Nissan 240sx. 2800lbs

Now, I drive a 6MT 335xi E90. 3800lbs. My brother has pretty much always beat me at everything (except anything technical but that's a whole nother story for a whole nother day), so I'm looking to drop some weight from my car.

Hopefully this thread will stand as a central place to find where to drop weight from our cars. I'm looking to drop at least 200 lbs while still "feeling" stock and being daily drivable....i.e. while keeping my girlfriend from killing me every time she gets in my car Maybe in a year or so I'll jump for nice racing seats reupholstered to match my Terra but that's a bit too deep for my pockets atm. So by daily drivable I mean keep all audio/nav components, A/C, etc.

I fully understand that this is sort of ridiculous so please do not flame me, if you don't have anything helpful to say relating to this issue please do not post. I also fully understand that our cars aren't necessarily designed to be light and aren't the greatest to start with if looking for light. I ALSO understand that weight isn't everything, but hell WHY NOT drop a few pounds right? I'm already on a diet

Here's what I have found so far, although I don't know of most of the exact weight savings numbers... I don't know if I will personally be able to get well....any of these before next season but if I can get an idea I might be able to scrap some together :-P

-Wheels/Non-RFT Tires (Unsprung): ~45lbs
-Lightweight Battery (Rear): ~40 lbs (stat by HP Autowerks)
-CF Hood (Front): ~30lbs
-CF Boot (Rear): ~15lbs
-Exhaust (Center): ~20lbs
-Removing rear seats (Rear): ?? (for track days...)
-Replacing front seats (Front): ~80lbs (stat by HP Autowerks)

SUGGESTIONS:
-Headers
-LTW Control Arms
-Interior Panelling
-FMIC
-Downpipes
-Intake

Anyone know of any other permanentish mods that dump weight without damaging daily drivability? Preferably the mods would be in the front to dampen that 53/47 or so split we have going.

Thanks,
Dave

UPDATE May 31, 2008: My car weighs in at 3740 with Kosei K1/Bridgestone RE01R
The reason I bought a 335... My CTS-V was a 4000# porker (who broke rear diffs all day). I thought I was ahead.
__________________
07 335, AW - Tasteful - SOLD
Closer_2001 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2008, 09:15 AM   #58
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

Posts: 11,261
iTrader: (29)

Recaro's are calling your name!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160615
HP Autosport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-02-2008, 09:13 PM   #59
dvpouldar26
Major
 
dvpouldar26's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 328i, Porsche 987.1
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

Posts: 1,474
iTrader: (4)

You could use a lightweight battery such such as a braille battery, some lightweight 18" wheels, a BBK, taking out your rear seats, taking out all your floor mats, lightweight body panels (hood, trunk, etc.), and racing seats are some things you can do to lighten up your car. You can also drain out your windshield washer fluid on trackdays. There is a thread on cayman club on what you can do to reuce weigh on your cayman. i would look at that. It has things as mild as taking out your floormats, to as extreme as removing your windows and replacing them with lexan and removing your taillights and headlights on trackdays. A lightweight titanium exhaust system will also help you shed some weight.
dvpouldar26 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-02-2008, 11:02 PM   #60
335ievo
Your'e gonna learrrrrrnn tooooday
 
335ievo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 328i M Sport EB
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fullerton, CA

Posts: 587
iTrader: (1)

our cars arent meant to be track cars... if you want a track car, just get an s2000 or an evo RS.

But I do agree, our cars are pretty heavy, what can you do? I guess you can shave off some weight and mod up your car with 100 octane to make up for the weight.
__________________
2013 BMW 328i MSport F30 - Estoril Blue

"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." James Dewar
335ievo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-20-2011, 01:43 PM   #61
Murph335
Major
 
Murph335's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 335 e90, '11 X5D
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chandler, AZ

Posts: 1,075
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 Chevy TBSS  [0.00]
2010 BMW 335i  [0.00]
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
what about just starting with ~3100 C5 vette for $10k, and parts are cheap. I wouldnt want to hurt the 335i engine its $$$.

LSx stuff is sooooooo cheap = great track cars, interior quality doesnt matter at the track. Why pay extra for a bmw if your going to gut and beat the crap out of it anyways. yes track time = beating the crap out of it no matter how u cut it.

I appreciate the C6 vette after it was my office during the bondurant classes, they really do perform as advertised on the track, still wouldnt want one everyday.
__________________
E90 - H&R Touring - M3 Front Arms - Work Genosis GS-1 19x9+30 x10+26 225f 265r stretch - AA FMIC - AR DP - Cobb E30 Map +160rwhp/+200rwtq
E93 - Style 95 - RB Turbo - AR DP - Evolution RW FMIC - Protuned E30 +190rwhp/+200rwtq
Murph335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-22-2011, 08:33 PM   #62
JoosyJoos
Major
 
JoosyJoos's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Johns Creek, GA

Posts: 1,292
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to JoosyJoos
Simply put you aren't going to be running FTD or anything in a 335i but it can be a fairly capable car. Taking out weight is a great way to improve the performance but its really not worth the diminishing returns of spending all the cash on CF up to a certain point. You'll end up ruining your daily driver the more you change it.

My suggestions:
-Lightweight rims (SSRs, Koseis or Apex)
-Rip the backseats out for autox (takes 20min), reinstall as necessary
-Lightweight seats are great

Stop there... improve the nut behind the wheel. If you like it enough... buy a 2nd car and build it to your driving style. Get rides with others, see what you like, see what drivers are doing differently. Ask them to drive your car... you'll find out what you need to work on.

Another thing no one has really mentioned is to check your alignment settings. You need to have some pretty serious camber to compete in an autox. For my E36 I try to spec it out to -3F/-2.5R.
__________________

1998 M3 Vert
1995 M3 Track Car
2008 335i - Retired
JoosyJoos is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2012, 12:09 AM   #63
Triple M
Doc Rebel!
 
Triple M's Avatar
 
Drives: Fire Orange M3, X5M, Blk 135
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vegas Baby!

Posts: 258
iTrader: (0)

+1
key element in any upgrade is suspension and tires. They would even allow u any mporker around track faster than u can imaging. Suspension has improved my lap time ridiculously without even having to add power. Stay planted and carry speed= better time
Triple M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2012, 06:08 AM   #64
StealYourFace
Major
 
Drives: 2006 330i sport
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Shakedown Street, Buffalo NY

Posts: 1,135
iTrader: (1)

Just register a second number with his Porsche and kick his butt with his own car.

Barrowed cars are faster!
__________________
330i ~ BMW Perf. Susp. ~ M3 Front susp ~ BMW Perf Exhaust ~ 3.38 lsd ~ SF71 Alf CSL reps ~ Pilot Super Sports ~ AA Tune ~ 335is front brakes ~ over 150,000 miles hardly broken in! WTB: e93 M3 Front Sway Bar
StealYourFace is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2012, 08:08 AM   #65
norMcal
Private First Class
 
norMcal's Avatar
 
Drives: 1988 E30 M3 & 2013 VW GTI
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Grass Valley, CA

Posts: 162
iTrader: (1)

Funny, at the autox that I participate in (with the Porsche club), there are variety of other cars, including a WRX, which does very well also. However, it is highly modified and the the driver is very good.

I know the feeling, you want to go faster, but no matter what, there are limitations to what you can do with your car and doing all the things you suggested would ruin it. I personally race a 335d, and it's hardly the ideal autox car either, but you know what? I get a lot more respect from others for doing well in this car, than I would if I had a fast light car.

I just had an event this last Sunday and it was the first time I had good tires since starting with autox. I recently got some Yokohama Advan Ad08's. The event before that I had added some suspension mods, but the tires made a bigger difference. If you are just doing it for fun and aren't competing in any specific class, then I would save the money for all the weight saving mods you suggested and buy a set of dedicated track wheels and put the stickiest tires possible on it. That will give you the biggest time gains of any mod. If you have a higher budget, then I would do what others have suggested and get a dedicated track car. BTW, the e36's, stripped and prepped a little are very competitive as well, right there with the WRX.
norMcal is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #66
turb0mike
 
turb0mike's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 2,706
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 BMW 335i  [4.45]
My car is at 3415 with all my weight reduction stuff. HOWEVER, I do have a somewhat heavy roll bar in the back and rear diffuser. With these add-ons I am actually at a perfect 50/50 front/rear and cross balance. baller.
turb0mike is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:03 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST