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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Ess supercharger



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      05-17-2014, 10:51 AM   #89
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I have a '11 328 e93 with 25k: Forgive my ignorance, but is this the first time a n52 has be SC?
Of course the power is intoxicating.....what are downsides? I know that's a "dumb" question, but specifically will a SC kill reliability of this pretty durable NA engine?

Other than that, I love the idea--more power to ya.
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      05-17-2014, 10:57 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotteddog View Post
I have a '11 328 e93 with 25k: Forgive my ignorance, but is this the first time a n52 has be SC?
Of course the power is intoxicating.....what are downsides? I know that's a "dumb" question, but specifically will a SC kill reliability of this pretty durable NA engine?

Other than that, I love the idea--more power to ya.

As a former N52 owner I'd be a bit wary about using forced induction on a engine that has a aluminum block.
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      05-17-2014, 12:51 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
As a former N52 owner I'd be a bit wary about using forced induction on a engine that has a aluminum block.
The N52 is not even aluminum. It is magnesium mixed with aluminum. I suspect it is weaker than a truly aluminum block however I do hope it is strong enough to be boosted.
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      05-17-2014, 01:26 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotteddog View Post
I have a '11 328 e93 with 25k: Forgive my ignorance, but is this the first time a n52 has be SC?
Of course the power is intoxicating.....what are downsides? I know that's a "dumb" question, but specifically will a SC kill reliability of this pretty durable NA engine?

Other than that, I love the idea--more power to ya.
SC will certainly not improve reliability. It sure is trivial, depends on built and parts quality, tolerance of the n52, and most important, driver habits!
My e92 is less than a year old. I currently drive in the manual mode only (always preferred stick shift) and anyone with auto tranny getting a SC I advise practice using the manual mode to get very comfy with it. In manual mode the gear is locked and the tranny will not be overloaded with boost unless you choose to do so. On the plus side, I remember reading threads about the gm trannies being more capable than the base manual. It's a calculated risk and I am very tempted to get one. Price is reasonable but by no means cheap.
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      05-17-2014, 01:46 PM   #93
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      05-17-2014, 05:52 PM   #94
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Anyone see this thing at bimmerfest yet??
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      05-17-2014, 06:16 PM   #95
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Wow, cool. Have fun guys!
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      05-17-2014, 07:08 PM   #96
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to everyone questions mileage. Ive been reading extensively about ess on the e46 forums regarding the automatic 330i
  • the transmissions can take it
  • people have put them on with well over 100k miles
  • if you maintain it, it will be fine

granted an e46 isn't what we have, but its good to compare.
now, I also am quoting a great post on SCs

"a supercharger only engages at WOT (wide open throttle, like "passing gear" in a normal car) and therefore for daily driving the supercharger is not engaged and accordingly there is no additional engine wear....and depending on how the engine has been prepared there may be virtually no difference in mileage from a non-supercharged car.

there is no question forced induction (supercharger or turbocharger) when engaged adds extreme heat and creates engine stress, so certainly overuse of a supercharger will shorten life span....and if the engine is not properly prepared or if the boost is too strong for the engine's internals could result in engine failure.

but if the engine is properly prepared, properly maintained and good heat management practices are in place (intercooler regardless of the boost and running high octane - octane is not a performance enhancer....its fights heat by preventing pre-ignition. in a normal engine pre ignition causes knocking, but in a performance engine pre ignition can cause a burnt piston or scored valve.).

so in terms of engine functions & stress at normal pace no difference on a supercharged engine - non supercharged engine......."

Therefore, if we act in good faith and don't abuse the the extra power, we'll be OK.
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      05-17-2014, 09:04 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emozoo
to everyone questions mileage. Ive been reading extensively about ess on the e46 forums regarding the automatic 330i
  • the transmissions can take it
  • people have put them on with well over 100k miles
  • if you maintain it, it will be fine

granted an e46 isn't what we have, but its good to compare.
now, I also am quoting a great post on SCs

"a supercharger only engages at WOT (wide open throttle, like "passing gear" in a normal car) and therefore for daily driving the supercharger is not engaged and accordingly there is no additional engine wear....and depending on how the engine has been prepared there may be virtually no difference in mileage from a non-supercharged car.

there is no question forced induction (supercharger or turbocharger) when engaged adds extreme heat and creates engine stress, so certainly overuse of a supercharger will shorten life span....and if the engine is not properly prepared or if the boost is too strong for the engine's internals could result in engine failure.

but if the engine is properly prepared, properly maintained and good heat management practices are in place (intercooler regardless of the boost and running high octane - octane is not a performance enhancer....its fights heat by preventing pre-ignition. in a normal engine pre ignition causes knocking, but in a performance engine pre ignition can cause a burnt piston or scored valve.).

so in terms of engine functions & stress at normal pace no difference on a supercharged engine - non supercharged engine......."

Therefore, if we act in good faith and don't abuse the the extra power, we'll be OK.
Awesome info thanks man
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      05-17-2014, 11:23 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Krish





...N51
N51 actully has a slightly better compression ratio 10:1 vs 10.5:1 I believe I read somewhere (I searched on here the exact difference btwn n51 and n52 and there's not much of a difference) so you would actually be better off doing it on the n51
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      05-18-2014, 02:17 AM   #99
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Just got bak from bimmerfest this afternoon, all i can say is this is even better then pic on instantgram, very clean and almost stock looking. Best part for n51 owner is ESS acutally had it installed on an n51 128i. So it aint just based off n52's map.

Also met roman at the booth, he explained everything pretty much, even gave his personal comparason between this vs n54. Basically n54 not as smooth as superchared n51 or 52.

This kit still need some fine tune according to roman, but im sure it will be done very soon.
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      05-18-2014, 11:45 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc5988
Just got bak from bimmerfest this afternoon, all i can say is this is even better then pic on instantgram, very clean and almost stock looking. Best part for n51 owner is ESS acutally had it installed on an n51 128i. So it aint just based off n52's map.

Also met roman at the booth, he explained everything pretty much, even gave his personal comparason between this vs n54. Basically n54 not as smooth as superchared n51 or 52.

This kit still need some fine tune according to roman, but im sure it will be done very soon.
great thanks

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      05-18-2014, 02:43 PM   #101
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      05-18-2014, 04:34 PM   #102
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How will the boost come on? Will it only be at WOT or will it come on in a progressive manner?
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      05-18-2014, 04:54 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
How will the boost come on? Will it only be at WOT or will it come on in a progressive manner?
should be similar to this supercharged e46, the more you rev, higher tq/hp you get.




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      05-18-2014, 05:17 PM   #104
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Centrifugal? Are you sure, I thought that ESS uses a twinscrew system...
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      05-18-2014, 05:17 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emozoo View Post
to everyone questions mileage. Ive been reading extensively about ess on the e46 forums regarding the automatic 330i
  • the transmissions can take it
  • people have put them on with well over 100k miles
  • if you maintain it, it will be fine

granted an e46 isn't what we have, but its good to compare.
now, I also am quoting a great post on SCs

"a supercharger only engages at WOT (wide open throttle, like "passing gear" in a normal car) and therefore for daily driving the supercharger is not engaged and accordingly there is no additional engine wear....and depending on how the engine has been prepared there may be virtually no difference in mileage from a non-supercharged car.

there is no question forced induction (supercharger or turbocharger) when engaged adds extreme heat and creates engine stress, so certainly overuse of a supercharger will shorten life span....and if the engine is not properly prepared or if the boost is too strong for the engine's internals could result in engine failure.

but if the engine is properly prepared, properly maintained and good heat management practices are in place (intercooler regardless of the boost and running high octane - octane is not a performance enhancer....its fights heat by preventing pre-ignition. in a normal engine pre ignition causes knocking, but in a performance engine pre ignition can cause a burnt piston or scored valve.).

so in terms of engine functions & stress at normal pace no difference on a supercharged engine - non supercharged engine......."

Therefore, if we act in good faith and don't abuse the the extra power, we'll be OK.

Idk where you quoted that from, but that is not how superchargers work. In the picture it was a dynamic air pump (centrifugal supercharger). It is attached to the accessory belt of the car and makes boost proportional to RPM. So it does make more boost at higher rpm, but it is always making boost.

As far as durability, I cannot say which aspect of our engines is the weakest. I know we have a cast crank so that might be a good suspect. However, I think we should be safe. Assuming we make about 300-350hp, that would be a 50% increase roughly. So in theory we would want an OEM factor of safety of about 1.9 to run this SC for a while. Racecars are commonly engineered with a factor of safety of 1.4 for established parts. Since this was the first time BMW used a mag-aluminum engine and it is a road car, i would assume the factor of safety would be around 2.5 or so. That puts us well within the range of safe power numbers for the existing engine and internals. I dont actually work at BMW so I cant say for sure what the N51/52/53 were built to handle, but I think we'll be fine. The only thing i would worry about is my x-drive center diff if i would go with this. ive heard that those arent the most durable
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      05-18-2014, 05:19 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Centrifugal? Are you sure, I thought that ESS uses a twinscrew system...
yes. a centrifugal supercharger is in the picture. For low boost, a positive displacement supercharger (twin screw) doesnt really make all that much sense
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      05-18-2014, 06:21 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
How will the boost come on? Will it only be at WOT or will it come on in a progressive manner?
From what I read it will be a progressive boost.
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      05-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDemetris View Post
yes. a centrifugal supercharger is in the picture. For low boost, a positive displacement supercharger (twin screw) doesnt really make all that much sense
ESS' current system for the M54 is a twinscrew - it offers more torque and power at a lower RPM than a centrifugal system does. I won't be doing either, but it's nice either way.
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      05-18-2014, 10:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzo23 View Post
The only thing I miss about my 2 N52 is the sound a NA staight 6 makes with the PE ringing it out to 7k, Other then that boost is the way to go, cant say I miss the n52 power. But I am happy after all this time a real power option will finally be available for these cars for those who want to go that route instead of upgrading to a 335, f30 328 etc.
Going with a F30 328 isn't much of an upgrade unless you are planning to tune it. You sacrifice a lot for a moderate power bump. There isn't a huge acceleration difference between the two and the E90 is just better dynamically. In a lot of ways it is a downgrade.
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      05-18-2014, 10:41 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
Going with a F30 328 isn't much of an upgrade unless you are planning to tune it. You sacrifice a lot for a moderate power bump. There isn't a huge acceleration difference between the two and the E90 is just better dynamically. In a lot of ways it is a downgrade.
The F30 drives like #$%!, a supercharged N52 would be so much enjoyable. Even a 330 E46 supercharged drives nicer than a FBO F30 28 tuned.
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