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      12-01-2007, 02:46 AM   #1
beeemer
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BMW AWD sytems are not performance oriented?

I keep hearing that the AWD systems of BMW's are not performance oriented the way Evos and STi's are. Does anyone know what the Nurburgring times are for the 335i vs the 335xi?
I live in SoCal where it hardly rains and never snows but I love the capabilities of good AWD cars on the track. Being able to get on the gas early in each turn is so much more fun to me.
A car like the Evo has 3 LSD's and BMW (non M) has 0? What is up with that? I am having a very hard time choosing between the 135i/335i and the Evo X. Looks do not matter to me because I think both are pretty ugly. I just want a car that will do well at the track and still get me through my 2 mile daily commute.
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      12-01-2007, 10:50 AM   #2
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Every part of BMW drivetrain engineering is meant for performance, otherwise I wouldn't have paid so much for a car. The XI is awesome, infact, you can get faster launch times than that of a rear wheel car because it gains traction faster. XI is great and transfers power to wheels as needed. Although it is not as good as quattro, I believe it is better than that of asian brands and Benz.

Watch the vid on X Drive: http://www.bmwusa.com/uniquelybmw/in...responsiveness
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      12-01-2007, 10:54 AM   #3
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Seems like you should get the evo.
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      12-01-2007, 11:07 AM   #4
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ohh god i HATE AWD....sure for rally it is awesome...but a rwd car is so much more fun on the track...you want an lsd buy a quaife....the bmw is leaps and bounds better in looks on the outside...esp on the inside where the plastic is just too overwhelming in the evo....nevertheless...the evo is insane...a great achievement every generation for mitsubishi.... it is more of a race inspired car than the 335...esp with 3 lsds and all the yaw control and stability control features it has...doesn't it have like 3-4 systems? but that said you will have no luxuery..no nice leather...it won't be nearly as comfortable as the bmw...but it will cost 10k less optioned out...sounds like you want the evo....also sounds like the 335 ight be out of the $$ range...my buddy is an sti nut...he would take my 335 over his sti anyday anytime....he loves my 335 same with my buddy who has an evo MR but bro they are totally diff cars...your looking at a rally 4banger rocket with possibly the best AWD system availiable..and a euro luxury sports coupe'...they are totally different beasts....i am not a fan of AWD but i have a lot of respect for the new systems the new sti and evo are using...but such a waste in gas unless you are in a mountainous area with snow...or offroad rallying.... rwd is just so much more fun on a track!!!!!!! goodluck either way you'll be happy...get the evo then in a couple years when your sick of it get a bmw
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      12-01-2007, 12:46 PM   #5
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All the X-Drive ads I've seen so far talk about "getting there" in bad weather. Non Xi ads talk about driving the car. Does that tell you something?

Have you seen an M3 Xi, M5 Xi or Z4 Xi yet??

(BTW - I own and drive both types so I think I am allow to make such comment.)
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      12-01-2007, 12:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halB View Post
Have you seen an M3 Xi, M5 Xi or Z4 Xi yet??
The operative word is YET
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      12-01-2007, 04:03 PM   #7
beeemer
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Does anyone have comparison times of a 335i and a 335xi on the same track? Preferably during the same weather conditions. Price is not really the main factor because they are not that far off. The only option I would get on the 335i sedan would be the sport pkg. I would also have to drive the 135i when it comes out.
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      12-02-2007, 01:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halB View Post
All the X-Drive ads I've seen so far talk about "getting there" in bad weather. Non Xi ads talk about driving the car. Does that tell you something?

Have you seen an M3 Xi, M5 Xi or Z4 Xi yet??

(BTW - I own and drive both types so I think I am allow to make such comment.)
I have also owned both i and xi. I like the feel of i much better.


As for the post, bmw AWD system is more performance oriented than many other offerings. They allow more slippage and trust the driver.
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      12-02-2007, 02:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeemer View Post
I keep hearing that the AWD systems of BMW's are not performance oriented the way Evos and STi's are. Does anyone know what the Nurburgring times are for the 335i vs the 335xi?
I live in SoCal where it hardly rains and never snows but I love the capabilities of good AWD cars on the track. Being able to get on the gas early in each turn is so much more fun to me.
A car like the Evo has 3 LSD's and BMW (non M) has 0? What is up with that? I am having a very hard time choosing between the 135i/335i and the Evo X. Looks do not matter to me because I think both are pretty ugly. I just want a car that will do well at the track and still get me through my 2 mile daily commute.
If you're buying a car primarily for how it drives on the track then get a Lotus Elise. At a pinch you can drive it every day and it will simply annihilate most other vehicles, including ones that have far more power. Not sure why you think AWD is such a virtue on the track; light weight and agility are far more important.
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      12-02-2007, 10:40 PM   #10
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i have an xi... and i think if you want a track machine, go for an i... the main reason i have an xi is because i need to deal with the harsh winters here in montreal.
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      12-02-2007, 11:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmin View Post
I have also owned both i and xi. I like the feel of i much better.


As for the post, bmw AWD system is more performance oriented than many other offerings. They allow more slippage and trust the driver.

I agree with you. I had an Audi A6 Quattro before the 530Xi and 335i cab. The Audi hardly allow any slip at all and is more assuring in slippery road conditions. The Xi allows some slip but catches on and corrects it pretty quickly, and the handling is sportier than the Audi. The one with the sportiest handling is the i.
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      12-03-2007, 01:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplewidow View Post
the bmw is leaps and bounds better in looks on the outside...esp on the inside where the plastic is just too overwhelming in the evo
Yeah, you're right, I could never live with this interior.

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      12-03-2007, 01:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjovic View Post
Yeah, you're right, I could never live with this interior.

But these seats are awesome. Much more bolstering than even the sport pkg BMW seats. Other than that, the BMW interior is way better.
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      12-03-2007, 10:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir87 View Post
Seems like you should get the evo.
lol
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      12-03-2007, 10:20 AM   #15
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Sounds to me you should look at a Z4M Coupe if you want a good track car.
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      12-03-2007, 02:17 PM   #16
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This is easy. If you live where it almost never rains or snows get the 335i coupe and not the 335xi. What you gain in AWD traction is more than taken away by not having the sport suspension. I have the 335xi and was happy to have it driving in snow this morning but the car is a compromise. It is not the best of both worlds. I would like very much to hear from someone who has driven both cars side by side on a demanding road or track but I am fairly certain of what they would say.
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      12-03-2007, 04:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeemer View Post
Other than that, the BMW interior is way better.
In what way?

BUSY GROCERY-GETTING BMW INTERIOR:


CLEAN PERFORMANCE-ORIENTED MITSU INTERIOR:
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      12-03-2007, 05:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E nine T View Post
Every part of BMW drivetrain engineering is meant for performance, otherwise I wouldn't have paid so much for a car. The XI is awesome, infact, you can get faster launch times than that of a rear wheel car because it gains traction faster. XI is great and transfers power to wheels as needed. Although it is not as good as quattro, I believe it is better than that of asian brands and Benz.

Watch the vid on X Drive: http://www.bmwusa.com/uniquelybmw/in...responsiveness

You sir are unbeleiveably mis-informed an evo ix awd system puts the xi system to shame, it terms of performance. And you are going to tell me that xi is better than a subaru's, a company whos whole existence is basically awd, a company whose entire lineup consists of awd. Read a book and learn something my friend.
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      12-03-2007, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
You sir are unbeleiveably mis-informed an evo ix awd system puts the xi system to shame, it terms of performance. And you are going to tell me that xi is better than a subaru's, a company whos whole existence is basically awd, a company whose entire lineup consists of awd. Read a book and learn something my friend.
It looks like BMW's system applies brakes to the wheel that is losing traction. That could never be a good thing on the track. I would much prefer LSD's to split the amount of torque to each side.
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      12-04-2007, 02:58 AM   #20
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Yeah...from what I understand...BMW X-drive must first detect wheel slippage before it transfers power...a "superior" AWD system (like Quattro) detects torque and then transfers power. Because these systems rely on torque rather than slippage, they react faster than a BMW X-drive.

BMW X-drive is great for what it does...but I suspect as a track day car...better to take the slightly lighter 335i and get a LSD made for it...
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      12-05-2007, 02:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacedogg View Post
Yeah...from what I understand...BMW X-drive must first detect wheel slippage before it transfers power...a "superior" AWD system (like Quattro) detects torque and then transfers power. Because these systems rely on torque rather than slippage, they react faster than a BMW X-drive.

BMW X-drive is great for what it does...but I suspect as a track day car...better to take the slightly lighter 335i and get a LSD made for it...
Incorrect.. Only the middle diff of the quattro is torsen.. The front and rear are open diffs and require audi's "EDL" to lock up the wheel that is slipping. Very much like the X-Drive.

An ideal system would use Haldex in all 3 locations and computer control it. You would have 100% control of where the power goes. The computer could send all of the power to a single wheel if the programming so needed to. If I recall Volvo planned on doing something like this with the s60r PCC concept.

There are limits of LSD, which I think Haldex is on the way to solving.
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      12-06-2007, 02:01 AM   #22
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Those whoe think that Audi's Quattro is superior, have you ever tracked your Quattros??? Audi's quattro is known for its understeer specially in tracking conditions, but it's fixed with the new R8 ,which transfers more power to the front wheels only after the back is loose, unlike the older version when the cars didnt allow oversteer.

EDIT: Lets put it this way, EVO X AWD system > BMW Xdrive > Audi Quattro .
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