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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Help needed, Timing problem P0341 code 06' 325i



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      06-29-2014, 10:12 PM   #23
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Oh to add, the clinging sound could be that your hydraulic lifters have bled down during the vehicle's down time. (You can search on this site for "ticking at idle" for details) As long as you are not hearing loud knocking and banging, from the engine you may assume that the engine has not been damaged due to the timing.
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      06-29-2014, 10:45 PM   #24
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Lots to look into. I will be getting into this tomorrow. I did happen to look into the Eccentric shaft sensor earlier and it is no "Smoking Gun". It was pretty dry, forturnately and hopefully I don't want to do the valve cover again :/

What do you think about the clunky sound I was hearing on throttle up? Seemed to be a consistent issue prior to have the codes when everything seemed to be good on my 2 min test drive.
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      06-29-2014, 11:01 PM   #25
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Is there a possibility that you can post a sound clip so I can hear what type of sound it is?
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      06-30-2014, 12:09 PM   #26
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Ohh, concerning the sound, I'm trying to get this possible airlock situation fixed first. I will record later once this is solved. My manual explains that this could be as simple as bad fuel. Maybe its lost slight octane rating. Not to concerned at this point, definately will be concerned with it if it continues after all other problems.
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      06-30-2014, 01:32 PM   #27
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I had a derp moment, getting this heater valve to open. I was forgetting you have to keep foot off brake to get ignition on without engine start. Otherwise its just in accessory mode. LOL, got it and got my Jeep on jumpers to it. Its flowing through.
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      06-30-2014, 03:39 PM   #28
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Cool Success at last, I Didn't know such feelings existed with this car

Okay today has been a success, knock on wood. So far, since doing the water circulation procedure mentioned by X Drive, the fan has been in operation and coolant temp is maxing out around 209 after idling and driving at high speed. To answer your question about the clinking sound I mentioned earlier, it is still slightly present but much better and almost not even noticeable (Only from a slow roll to a quick acceleration can you slightly here a rattle that quickly disappears). It doesn't sound like it is from the engine, could be frame/joints related (I had a vibration present during braking prior to these repairs and I changed lower control arms which fixed 90% of this problem, but I think the rotors are bad, different story though). Either that or the fuel isn't the best batch since its been sitting for a long period. I put a multi-purpose fuel additive to boost octane, clean fuel injectors, etc. Maybe, its helpful, maybe its not... We'll see I guess. Anyways, all faults I cleared (During my derp moment today with the ignition, I realized this is why the faults weren't clearing, because I had key in slot but didn't press start button without foot on brake to keep it "Ignition On, Engine off", this allowed the codes to clear). I did note a very slight moisture in the eccentric shaft position sensor, this skeers me, however I know little of this device and how it fails. The slight moisture noted was inside the Inner Diameter of the the plug around the outside of the Male pins. I'm wondering when this fails, is it usually oil getting in around the seal outer diameter and seeps into plug or does it come up through the plastic? I ask in case this issue turns out being intermittent, at least I know where to look and what to deem as truly bad. I do have a ticking sound that I believe is from the fuel injectors, I don't know enough if it is bad, however I do know prior to my repairs this sound was present, not sure if it was as loud though, but this could be a case of looking closer at something and noticing it because you weren't looking as close before. I'll post the sound recording.

Now to my next question I must ask myself, do I put a for sale sign on this before the next thing breaks? Or do I enjoy the car for a while and risk the next nightmare? Decisions, decisions...

By the way, X-Drive, you Da Man. Or woman, but I believe you are more than likely a man. Your help has been paramount in this repair procedure.
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      06-30-2014, 04:41 PM   #29
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Sounds normal

I believe everything sounds normal. I fortunately do not have any metallic sounds referenced in the billion lifter videos found searching "ticking at idle". I think I'm going to look into selling/trading in this mood swinging hexen beast of a car.
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      06-30-2014, 08:34 PM   #30
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Hi David,

It is good to hear that this chapter of your adventure is somewhat closed! I understand the frustrations that you have encountered where things tend to, "domino," your wallet thins out and grey hairs start to sprout! As for selling the car, I cannot sway you from doing so, however I do admit that a BMW that runs well is an exhilarating experience! Sometimes, unfortunately, this feeling is short lived by the fabled german revenge. I do have to add though, that all cars will have issues and some are much worse than that of a BMW.

I am glad that you were able to rectify your issue. Not many people would have tackled that job, especially at home. So big kudos to you!

I would recommend though, to drive that vehicle and burn through a tank of quality gas. It could be that any rough running issues could be what you mentioned, bad gas. Also, if you have had the vehicle sitting for a while, especially with the vehicle disconnected from the battery, your adaptations will have to be re-learned. During this period, the car will feel kind of funny, if not crappy. As the DME begins to relearn optimal mapping and all the control units follow suit, the drive becomes a lot smoother and better.

As for the eccentric shaft sensor, the oil can intrude from either outside, due to a worn seal on the valve cover. Or it can intrude from the inside. This is due to age and multiple heat cycles with using a polymer. It simply gets over-worked and begins to crack internally causing oil to seep through the sensor and out of the male pins. Unfortunately it's fairly expensive and a time consuming job if its your first time. With that being said, it should be cake, since you re-timed your engine. I would keep an eye on it for now, however I cannot guarantee that you will not have any drivability issues if you leave it as is.

Hopefully you can at least enjoy some of the fruits of your labour before you decide to sell the vehicle. Perhaps an E9x M3 is waiting for you! BTW, thanks for kind words, it is nice when the advice I can give helps another out!
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      07-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #31
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Yeah, I want to enjoy the car for a while before I look into something else. Get my money's worth out of it. Well unfortunately, those codes came back on day 3 after repairs, didn't really test it more than 30 min driving time each time. Thought it was just a hickup originally after not seeing them come back on multiple test drives. But yeah I got the same codes again, putting the car in limp mode and revving up and down with a engine light on the dash. I checked the Eccentric shaft sensor plug for oil and there is the slightest half moon residue not even enough to say is 1/16 of a drop rimmed around the diameter half way around the pins. Definitely not causing a short on the plug side, but internal failure is suspect to me seeing this, what do you think X-Drive? Or anyone? Codes are posted previously, just read above, same ones. Also, my battery died, not sure if this is because of a shorted sensor... that is my thoughts so far. I put it on the charger right now, but I'm afraid it may be drained to much. Charger is showing it chargeable though. It was down to 7.5 Vdc :/ Or maybe these codes are being produced by my battery dieing... Not sure why the battery died, lights were off, doors shut, etc. I did have to charge my battery previously during the repairs over the past months. Another thing, I know your supposed to get your battery reprogrammed or some crap, but I never did and haven't had issues til' now after repairs I made (Since 2010), just installed and has been great until now.

Last edited by DAVID,; 07-04-2014 at 02:31 PM.
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      07-04-2014, 03:53 PM   #32
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Hi David,

The eccentric shaft sensor is a very touchy sensor. I have seen them filled with oil and there was no faults to the vehicle. On the other side, I have seen a sensor completely fail with the slightest hint of oil residue. I do feel that replacing this sensor at this point is a good thing, as there is oil present now. With all oil leaks and seeps, they never get better. And also, we cannot see how the oil has intruded inside the sensor itself.

As for the other codes, a weak battery will have a definite impact on the vehicle. I have seen everything under the sun and will probably see much more that I would have never thought of. A dying battery can allow many control units to operate very strangely and wreak havoc on your brain. So it is not uncommon to have multiple faults that would, at first glance, make one look past a weak battery. i.e. check engine lights, airbag warning lights, transmission limp mode etc etc.

As for it going dead, it can be due to a multiple amount of things. However, when performing the coolant bleed procedure, the battery does get taxed due to the high current the pump needs to run. However, I would say that the battery has probably been discharged past a state where damage has occurred to a cell. Anytime a battery has been run down past 40-50%, it becomes much harder for the cells to recover.

Also, one of the main reason a battery needs to be registered after replacement, is to allow the IBS to reset all stored data from the old battery and begin to store and calculate the data from the new battery.

Reprogramming would be required if the battery was replaced with a battery that had higher or lower CCA and Ah. (i.e. 720CCA 70Ah to a 900CCA 90Ah)

Start off with replacing the sensor and trying to get your battery to optimal levels. If it cannot, then replace the battery and have it registered.

Hopefully that doing this will end the "domino effect," and you can drive the vehicle with a smile.

Let me know how this goes.
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      07-05-2014, 05:55 PM   #33
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Recharged battery, during charge cycle put it at 16V, once fully charged leveled at 13.4V with a green light indicator on the charger showing its been charged. Put in vehicle, draws it to 12.9V immediately. Tried clearing codes, had 10 of them now, including going into limp mode. Most will clear except 1417 and 1017. Started wondering why there was more codes, was just a heavy rain here and realized with the hood down the rain still gets into the wiring box where the ECM/PCM is. I have the covers off because I figured I would recover everything once I know I don't have to pull the valve cover again. So here I am with a hair dryer and drying away at this box of wires. Cleared all codes except: 1417, 1017, and P0118 (P0118 will at least clear though).
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      07-05-2014, 06:21 PM   #34
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Also, just to put the info out there, the other additional codes were a series of U144X and U115X) Replace the X with "B or E" was the actual codes both ways. They cleared though.
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      07-06-2014, 12:41 AM   #35
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Hi David,

If you have had water ingress at the e-box (Electronics Box) then you will most likely have faults. At this point, my suggestion would be to disconnect the battery then inspecting all connectors at the control units in the e-box. Visually inspect for a bluish residue around the pins and female slots. Because you are getting the throttle fault-open circuit, I have a feeling that this is where the problem lies. This can also be the issue to why your battery dying. When control units get wet, many times they fail to enter sleep mode and the result is a parasitic draw that ultimately drains the battery.

As for the eccentric shaft implausibility fault, moisture in the DME connectors can also be the cause. Or simply just a by-product of the sensor actually being faulty.

If there are any signs of corrosion, then I am afraid to say that the DME might be pooched.
The only thing I can suggest is to clean any residue with quality contact spray and try to clear any of that residue clean. Worst case scenario, get yourself a anti-static mat and anti-static gloves(Can be found at a local computer repair shop), open the DME up and see if the circuit board has corrosion at the pins behind the connector slots and clean them as best as you can. However most times than naught, once a DME suffers a short due to corrosion, it becomes a really expensive paper weight.

I am hoping that you do not find any corrosion and that the DME is still good.
Let me know what you find.
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      07-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #36
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NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Just a couple hours prior to your post I was going in the same direction you are explaining. I was originally hair drying the box, but thought, hmmm, possibility water could be sitting in the connector of the DME. Once, taken out sure enough there was a 1/6" puddle in the connectors. Blue corrosion on multiple pin sockets and partial thru-corrosion (brown) on some pins. I did use contact cleaner and electrical "water remover" spray and dried out the connectors until they were dry. Reconnected DME and battery, tried to clear codes, but not all will clear. The U114 B/E and U115 B/E codes are staying. Lights on dash for transmission and limp mode. Will not start.
Looks like the DME is bad, 1000+ dollars for part, requires reprogram right? How much is that going to run?
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      07-06-2014, 02:25 PM   #37
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O yeah, I do believe this is my source of ALL problems. One pin is more than 50 percent corroded away.... I am banging myself on the head realizing how simple this could of been avoided. I didn't think that rain water would make it in there with the hood down... Expensive lesson learned. Any recommendations of where you would buy one at.... Or repair possibly?
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      07-06-2014, 05:46 PM   #38
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Hi David,

Well that's the shits. I was hoping that that wasn't the case...

As for a DME price and programming. The DME is going to be the bulk of your costs, however programming should not run much more than 2 hours labour at local shop rate. Unfortunately, the dealer may recommend that you also repair any female connectors at the engine harness side. I would also recommend this due to the fact that you have had extensive damage at the male side.

This, in most cases, repairs will be charged at straight time. Which means that it will be what ever time the tech spends on repairing the harness. (My best guess, expect any where between 2-5 hours-could be less, depending on damage plus repair materials.) However If you schmooze the service advisor and manager, they may be able to cut you some sort of deal, due to the fact that you are bringing in your vehicle to them.

So in short, DME approx $1000 with 2-6 hours, including programming and repairs to wires, at shop rate (avg. 150/hr) I would probably budget to be spending more than 2 g's if not closer to 3. I just want to cap your expectations so you are not totally blown away at the final cost.

The good thing about dealer repairs is that parts and labour, at least up here in the north, is guaranteed for 2 years-parts repairs. I know at this point it sucks, however it's a little consolation for what may have to be done.

Or you can source out a DME privately and have someone in your area that has coding/programming abilities to do that for you. The perk of this is that it would probably cost much less than a dealer, but without the guarantee and warranty.

However repairing the harness, would be another story as most indy shops and "garage," tech's will charge straight time. Also, most of the time, they will not have access to the specific pins that the engine harness utilizes. (If any one in David's area would like to help in on this, please offer him a quote and help a brother member out! )

Sorry to hear that it turned out this way. However at least now there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Hopefully you will find a financially reasonable solution to resolve this issue!
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      07-07-2014, 11:44 AM   #39
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I'm going to look for a used one. Ebay has some from 85 - 175. Ranging from 14 day return to 6 month warranty. Got to do a bit more research. I'm going to check on salvage yards too. I'll let you know how everything goes, thanks again for your help. Also, I opened the back plate on it and took a look at the mother board. One side of the board is spotless, however the side with the capacitors has blue corrosion trails leading down the board. It looks cleanable, one chip had corrosion interconnecting two legs from it, maybe that could of been it, no telling if there is internal damage done already. I think more than likely I have to replace due to the pins at the interface being corroded.

Last edited by DAVID,; 07-07-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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      07-08-2014, 10:53 PM   #40
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Update, I took off the cover to the DME and noted some trails of blue corrosion along the board that cleaned up easily with isoprophyl alcohol and acid brush. There was also some slight gunking of brown like corrosion between 2 legs on one of the chips on the board --- cleaned with scribe and alcohol. Buddy at work repaired the weak/corroded pin with what I would say was the most meticulous and precise solder repair I've seen, the pin looks nearly brand new. As for the other pins, they all cleaned up nicely. Went to clear codes, all cleared except now I have one stubborn one that won't go away. P1057, read somewhere, reprogram might be necessary. The code refers to valvetronic voltage supply. Thoughts? Going to look into getting my DME reflashed. Anyone know if I could remove it and bring it in or do they require the vehicle to be available? I'm going to call and ask a few places anyways.
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      07-09-2014, 10:26 AM   #41
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Hi David,

That's good to hear that you managed to try and salvage the DME. As for the fault you are getting, it's the valvetronic relay open-circuit fault. This may not clear due to the DME getting damaged. However, right now it's possible since you were able to clear the other faults. Before programming, check the pins at the female connector to see if it has any gunk, corrosion or damage to the pins or near the crimp points within the connector housing. It's fairly easy to separate the connector into their respective circuits. If you look at the DME main connectors, they comprise of a group of sub-connectors. If you look closely, there should be locking tangs that hold the slanted cover piece on the main connector. Simply release the tangs and slide the cover off. After that look for two lock tangs at the side of the connector and carefully release those. The sub-connectors should slide out and you can take a gander for any corrosion, damage or disconnections. I forgot what plug connector the valvetronic relay was at, however if you give me a few I can find out.

As for programming, there are places that can reprogram the DME on its own, however it's a good idea to have the vehicle there. This is to ensure that the vehicle electronics are encoded together, reducing the possibility of miscommunication between control units.

Hth
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      07-09-2014, 12:11 PM   #42
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Okay sounds good, I'll look into the female connecter tomorrow, got to go to work now. I did clean it from the outside thoroughly, however I didn't disassemble the connectors as you describe, sounds like a good spot to check, I'll let you know how it goes.
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      07-11-2014, 12:06 PM   #43
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Okay, I disassembled individual connectors from the main, cleaned everything thoroughly, yes there was residue and slight gunk, all removed and pretty much spotless now. P1057 code will not clear, however when I start now, it runs smooth as if nothing is wrong, but I have this code and the triangle with arrow around it (I think this is limp mode, but it isn't running rough though, very smooth and normal). I took it around the block and everything sounds fine, runs good, but service engine light came on, with no change to how it was running (still ran fine with engine light on). Reprogram now?
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      07-11-2014, 06:44 PM   #44
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Hi David,

Before you program, can you re-check if your valvetronic motor is plugged in? I remember that in our previous posts, you double checked everything, however sometimes in the heat of the moment, things look good but they are not. If the connection is good, you may have a faulty DME. My gut feeling is that the DME is damaged. However with that being said, let's try some more things before condemning the DME.

Another thing you can do before programming, is a full battery reset then try clearing the codes. This is where you will be disconnecting both the B+ and B- cables from the battery and bridging them together with a lead. (Alligator clips and a spare small gauge wire works wonderfully) Be careful not to let the cables touch the battery terminals when doing so. A folded rag helps preventing the cables from touching. Allow at least 30 minutes to pass before trying to connect the cables and attempting to clear the codes. This allows the control units to discharge residual energy and "reset." Sometimes stubborn control units have a tendency to retain faults and not let them go. See where this takes you.

If you have access to a person that can program control units for a reasonable price, or free, try the battery reset method before and if the code does not clear then try to program the vehicle. The worst that happens, is that the DME fails programming and the fault remains. That and you may be out a few dollars. Both of these end results suck though. If the programming resolves this issue then I will join you in praising the good Lord. That, or I'll have a beer on your behalf. Depends on how you swing. Haha.

As for the triangle and circular arrow, that is a stability control warning light. Sometimes, that warning light will come on due to co-existing faults. Because your valvetronic is faulting, the warning light is on because the stability control systems utilize both brakes and engine power for optimizing traction in slip conditions.

I hope this helps! Fingers crossed.
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