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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Help needed, Timing problem P0341 code 06' 325i



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      07-11-2014, 08:44 PM   #45
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wow, this thread is amazing, David I hope you sort out this problem. I had problems with my DME recently (emissions codes that did not go away) and had to buy a new one. Had it programmed/coded by the dealer, all in all it was around $1600 total.
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      07-12-2014, 05:07 PM   #46
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Yes, the valvetronic motor is connected, I've taken it off and on reinspecting wires 3 or 4 times already. For curiosity sake I disconnected and turn ignition on with engine off and you get a whole slew of codes, so it is working or doing something at least. I've done battery resets already but without shorting the - and + cables / waiting 30 mins, I will do that right now. I spoke with a local shop, don't know much of their reputation, however the service technician seemed confident a reprogram would not fix the situation, but advised a diagnosis would be cheaper $80 and $40 could be applied toward repair if chosen to have them perform the repair vs $180 reprogram and the guy says it won't fix it, he is pretty sure of it... not sure how your opinion is about this, I mean I explained the situation thoroughly, but you have seen all my posts and understand the situation a bit better.
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      07-12-2014, 05:11 PM   #47
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O yeah, he seemed to think it could be a fuse. I checked every fuse in the electrical box with the DME, all are good. I checked above the glove box for a few of the many fuses there with no luck of finding one bad so far, however I didn't check all of them in this area.
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      07-12-2014, 07:47 PM   #48
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Okay, I did the battery reset and discharged any remaining voltages by shorting the leads of the battery cables together. I put my DMM on it and there was not anything off the get go, but I still waited more than 30 mins with no luck of resetting code. While running I disconnected the harness from the valvetronic motor and it did nothing...Put DMM on it and no voltage read, I believe there is an issue supplying power to the VM, whether it be a wire or bad DME, I'm thinking it is the DME because I have not found any bad connections. I'm going to look specifically at the circuit for the VM and Ohm check the wires. Hopefully there is something I find or I will have to say my DME is bad or in need of reprogram. :/
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      07-12-2014, 08:04 PM   #49
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Hi David,

Well it was worth a shot. In this case, I will agree with the service tech and say that even with a reprogram, the DME is most likely going to need replacement. I think at this point, I would replace the DME, then program and encode the vehicle. As long as all your connections and wires are in good shape, then there is no other reason for this code to be staying.
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      07-14-2014, 09:53 AM   #50
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Okay, yesterday afternoon after work I looked at the wires Pinkish Red one and Brown wire (2 each) coming from the Valvetronic motor. I simply ohms checked them and they were shorted with connection to DME... Once disconnected from DME short goes away. DME is bad. I took off the cover and was checking the pins where I found short and all 4 inputs to that plug are shorted together. The thing is they are shorted internally in one of the components on the board / circuit and I'm able to see it on the pins with the multimeter... I've checked thoroughly for anything and the one thing I see is a chip that had seemed suspect with a slight piece of plastic spatter on top, might be what burnt up and shorted, however the ohms outputs of the 6 legs on this piece are identical to that of two others on the board. Anyways, I'm going to see if I can find a used one somewhere.
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      07-14-2014, 12:16 PM   #51
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Found one that looks mint condition with 100 day warranty for 85 bucks and purchased on Ebay, BAMMM what a deal, opposed to $1000-1500, no Sir not happening. Won't be in until Friday though...
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      07-14-2014, 01:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVID, View Post
Found one that looks mint condition with 100 day warranty for 85 bucks and purchased on Ebay, BAMMM what a deal, opposed to $1000-1500, no Sir not happening. Won't be in until Friday though...
Not trying to discourage you or anything but I did some research since I too considered buying a used DME. I found a couple of things specific to the E90 DME that may cause a whole other bunch of issues when installing a used DME from another car.

1) DME has to be aligned to your CAS module so it recognizes your key
2) DME uses the specific information from your CAS to function with all other modules in your car, when you install a DME from another car you may get emissions or other related CEL codes that won't go away.
3) I know for sure that when I bought the new DME it was already locked to my vehcle's VIN number but there was no programming in it, so it was blank. Once I took the car to the dealer, they had to take all the information from the CAS and then program the software per my vehicle's order (VO).

See the links below and make an informed decision, would suck to spend $85 bucks plus a week of waiting time to then have more codes show up in your dashboard.

http://www.evotechnik.net/showthread...module-warning

See page9:
http://www.renette.dk/Bil/BMWe90/BMW...tionallity.pdf
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      07-15-2014, 12:07 AM   #53
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Well that's some shit huh....
The first link is kind of ambiguous and sounds like you sure as hell can't use one without reprogramming it. The second link page 9 is just down right wrong (not morally right) and pisses me off, WOW, forces you to go with a new one... I see this is referring to E92 which is after my year 2006 325i, hopefully they didn't have this money harvester idea then. I spoke with a friend of someone that works with me that used to work as a service tech from BMW and he didn't tell me this (he's been out of it for a few years though I think), he claimed that they would extract data from my old DME and upload to the replacement, but then again he claimed he wouldn't see a situation like mine, because they would be using a new one. Well anyways, I'm not willing to put all my eggs in one basket and count on the one I already bought on Ebay, although I was thinking this would work :/. I also ordered a MOSFET type chip that I found on the board that is bad (burnt indication). I have a friend that does this sort of thing for his career, so he is going to solder it for me, as for anything else on the board lets cross our fingers... I would like to think once he has the current MOSFET (transitor gate thingymajiger) removed that the shorting indication where the pins go to the valvetronic circuit will open... If it doesn't then there is more items on the board that are bad beyond visual inspection. I should know tomorrow.

Also, anyone that has a shop in the Miami / Homestead, FL area that does this sort of work (reprogram) and has the equipment for it let me know, if not I'm going to call the local shops and see what deal I can get. (If my board repair is unsuccessful)

If all else fails, I'll part out the car , shit probably get more money out of it like that.

Last edited by DAVID,; 07-15-2014 at 12:13 AM.
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      07-15-2014, 07:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVID, View Post
Well that's some shit huh....
The first link is kind of ambiguous and sounds like you sure as hell can't use one without reprogramming it. The second link page 9 is just down right wrong (not morally right) and pisses me off, WOW, forces you to go with a new one... I see this is referring to E92 which is after my year 2006 325i, hopefully they didn't have this money harvester idea then. I spoke with a friend of someone that works with me that used to work as a service tech from BMW and he didn't tell me this (he's been out of it for a few years though I think), he claimed that they would extract data from my old DME and upload to the replacement, but then again he claimed he wouldn't see a situation like mine, because they would be using a new one. Well anyways, I'm not willing to put all my eggs in one basket and count on the one I already bought on Ebay, although I was thinking this would work :/. I also ordered a MOSFET type chip that I found on the board that is bad (burnt indication). I have a friend that does this sort of thing for his career, so he is going to solder it for me, as for anything else on the board lets cross our fingers... I would like to think once he has the current MOSFET (transitor gate thingymajiger) removed that the shorting indication where the pins go to the valvetronic circuit will open... If it doesn't then there is more items on the board that are bad beyond visual inspection. I should know tomorrow.

Also, anyone that has a shop in the Miami / Homestead, FL area that does this sort of work (reprogram) and has the equipment for it let me know, if not I'm going to call the local shops and see what deal I can get. (If my board repair is unsuccessful)

If all else fails, I'll part out the car , shit probably get more money out of it like that.
I share your frustration on this DME thing, BMW went a long way to make working with DMEs a royal PITA.
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      07-15-2014, 11:57 AM   #55
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Things are looking grimm. I called shops and all say DME must be new...WTF I thought I mentioned that I was looking into getting a used one to the shop that quoted me $180 to do it...I even asked the dealer and they said $160, but won't guarantee it will work and don't think it will work...I think that is BS, they are the dealer, they should be able to do anything regarding the car, I mean its their creation. I was told by one shop that the car access system is the same for the E90 and E92, why does it say this was introduced with the E92 on page 9 of Cuco's link reference. (Meaning mine has the same thing even though it was before the E92?)
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      07-15-2014, 12:01 PM   #56
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Well maybe my old one can still be refurbished.... Not ready to pay $1350 for it quite yet. I'll know today if it looks possible. Also, my MOSFET chip will be in by Thursday, if the board is repairable.
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      07-15-2014, 12:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVID, View Post
Things are looking grimm. I called shops and all say DME must be new...WTF I thought I mentioned that I was looking into getting a used one to the shop that quoted me $180 to do it...I even asked the dealer and they said $160, but won't guarantee it will work and don't think it will work...I think that is BS, they are the dealer, they should be able to do anything regarding the car, I mean its their creation. I was told by one shop that the car access system is the same for the E90 and E92, why does it say this was introduced with the E92 on page 9 of Cuco's link reference. (Meaning mine has the same thing even though it was before the E92?)
Dealers use ISSS to program the DMEs and it's a very automated process, if the ISSS software detects that something is off between your car's modules it will most likely prevent the techs from programming the used DME. From what I know, used DMEs have to be at least locked with your vehicle's VIN number, I think they have to overwrite an EEPROM chip or the like with the new VIN. Only then can the CAS be aligned with the DME.

Shops will always say they can't guarantee anything related to programming.

The link to the PDF is training material for techs on the E92 vehicle. The same pdf also exists for the E90 somewhere. The CAS module interface is the same between E90 and E92. It's true that your vehicle being an 06 may have some differences but they are unknown at his point.
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      07-15-2014, 11:02 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuco View Post
Dealers use ISSS to program the DMEs and it's a very automated process, if the ISSS software detects that something is off between your car's modules it will most likely prevent the techs from programming the used DME. From what I know, used DMEs have to be at least locked with your vehicle's VIN number, I think they have to overwrite an EEPROM chip or the like with the new VIN. Only then can the CAS be aligned with the DME.

Shops will always say they can't guarantee anything related to programming.

The link to the PDF is training material for techs on the E92 vehicle. The same pdf also exists for the E90 somewhere. The CAS module interface is the same between E90 and E92. It's true that your vehicle being an 06 may have some differences but they are unknown at his point.
This is good to understand, thanks man. Also to clarify though, you say "Used DMEs have to at least lock with your vehicles VIN number and they have to overwrite a chip with the new VIN." Who is they? Cause I would like them to do that, but all shops say "It must be new". Are you saying that the dealer or a known shop can if fact do the overwrite? Or is the overwrite only done by BMW at the manufacturing and distribution level? Basically, how do you get a used DME overwritten with the correct VIN #? I read on page 9 of that tech manual you referenced that it is new, blank, and programed from the manufacture with the VIN before its even sent to the dealer. Or are you simply saying that they would do this VIN # overwrite and I may still have issues? Thanks in advance!

Last edited by DAVID,; 07-15-2014 at 11:40 PM.
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      07-15-2014, 11:23 PM   #59
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Attempting board repair

Here's some pics of the board, on one of them I circled the burned hole on the chip, it actually left a slight arch mark on the case backing in the same spot as the chip. I also circled the points that go to the two wires to the valvetronic motor (1st picture). They are circled by the color wire each go to (2nd picture), I might have it backwards but nonetheless just showing that they are supposed to be different circuits and these are all reading common "shorted". My friend removed the chip and the short still shows between the red circle and the brown circled points...now I am weary that there may be more bad... we will see with the new chip I suppose, I am also seeing if him and his co-workers can isolate any other bad components and if they do, I have a $85 parts supply (The one I bought from Ebay), if they don't I'm shit out of luck and will return the Ebay one and bite the bullet on a new DME.
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      07-16-2014, 11:30 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuco View Post
Dealers use ISSS to program the DMEs and it's a very automated process, if the ISSS software detects that something is off between your car's modules it will most likely prevent the techs from programming the used DME. From what I know, used DMEs have to be at least locked with your vehicle's VIN number, I think they have to overwrite an EEPROM chip or the like with the new VIN. Only then can the CAS be aligned with the DME.

Shops will always say they can't guarantee anything related to programming.

The link to the PDF is training material for techs on the E92 vehicle. The same pdf also exists for the E90 somewhere. The CAS module interface is the same between E90 and E92. It's true that your vehicle being an 06 may have some differences but they are unknown at his point.

Cuco, lets say I replace the MOSFET chip (Once it comes in tomorrow) and I still have other issues that are bad on the board (And can't figure out). I'm considering taking the "EEPROM chip or of like" and putting it on the DME I bought on EBay. What chip talks with the CAS and holds the VIN? You said EEPROM chip, which one is that? I'll take some pictures of the whole board...Maybe you have reference material I could find out from. Thanks!

I'm just particularly concerned that this MOSFET chip (burnt one I found) is not the only thing bad because with the chip out those 4 solder points are shorted. 2 each go to the red wire and 2 each go to the brown wire of the valvetronic motor. Does anyone know how the Valvetronic Motor wiring is supposed to be. I can't seem to find any reference material / schematics on it. I really can't see that as being correct, IMO they shouldn't be shorted if they are supplying voltage via 2 wire to the Valvetronic motor.

Last edited by DAVID,; 07-16-2014 at 11:36 AM.
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      07-16-2014, 01:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVID, View Post
Cuco, lets say I replace the MOSFET chip (Once it comes in tomorrow) and I still have other issues that are bad on the board (And can't figure out). I'm considering taking the "EEPROM chip or of like" and putting it on the DME I bought on EBay. What chip talks with the CAS and holds the VIN? You said EEPROM chip, which one is that? I'll take some pictures of the whole board...Maybe you have reference material I could find out from. Thanks!

I'm just particularly concerned that this MOSFET chip (burnt one I found) is not the only thing bad because with the chip out those 4 solder points are shorted. 2 each go to the red wire and 2 each go to the brown wire of the valvetronic motor. Does anyone know how the Valvetronic Motor wiring is supposed to be. I can't seem to find any reference material / schematics on it. I really can't see that as being correct, IMO they shouldn't be shorted if they are supplying voltage via 2 wire to the Valvetronic motor.
David, I wrote "EEPROM chip or the like" because I am not sure what kind of chip it is but for certain I know that BMW flashes the VIN information on one of those chips, I would google around because I read somewhere that some N54 guys were able to solder new chips to replace burnt ones and were successful. Also check the bavarian coding forums, there are more experienced members there.
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      07-18-2014, 11:26 AM   #62
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Replaced one MOSFET chip on board, something else is the culprit. Problem still exists.
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      07-18-2014, 02:17 PM   #63
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Also My used Ebay one came in, looks very clean pins, etc. There is one company that specialized in used DME aligning, coding, etc. I think I will send it to them RPMmotorsport, if I can't figure out what's causing the short (It's the best economical answer ($500 service plus $85 used board). It's definitely shorted on the valvetronic motor circuit, compared it to used DME which is open on those pins. In the meanwhile I'm going to compare boards, see if I can find something bad with a DMM. Maybe I can isolate the short with comparisons and hopefully fix it.
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      07-18-2014, 07:02 PM   #64
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Hi guys,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I have been offline for a bit. In regards to still having the short with a chip replaced, I would say that the board itself is damaged. My guess would be that water has penetrated the substrate of the board material and bridged the valvetronic circuit together. Or, my next guess would be that because there was short due to water ingress, enough to make a hole in a electrical component, the circuits fused together from heat. In any case, neither scenario is not going to help matters.

However, if the shop that you mentioned can program, align and encode "pre-owned," DME's and you can successfully transfer guts from one DME to another, then that would fantastic. I really hope that this can be done. Please keep us on the update, as if this works other members with similar issues can possibly use this company to rectify similar cases.

To add, Mr.cuco, thank you for the very excellent insight to this topic! Awesome info and help!
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      07-18-2014, 08:14 PM   #65
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Will keep you guys posted, just to clarify the shop I mentioned is a back-up in case my repairs are unsuccessful. They don't need your old DME, they require key and EWS module to be sent in with your used DME that you've aquired (Like mine from Ebay), this runs $500. They have other options for refurbished, 1 year warranty for approx $900 and you can send in the EWS with key. Either way is cheapest "Known successful" way of doing this. They seem to have great reviews, anyone else use them or know anything? I'm really surprised they are the only ones doing this service. On the other side of things, I may be on to a fairly simple repair. I just found 4 chip surface mounted resistors that are shorted, other board comparisons reveal they are definitely bad. I'm looking into parts as I don't want to start cannibalizing parts from my used "Ebay" one quite yet (It's in really nice shape, looks brand new practically, probably can sell it if I repair mine successfully).
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      07-20-2014, 12:34 PM   #66
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Board Repair

Update---I have duplicated the same (Used vs mine) ohms output/input to the valvetronic circuitry by doing the following:

-Ohms checking individual components and comparing to new DME. Found 8 suspect components reading shorted and desoldered. (I'll explain below why suspect and not for sure bad)
- Disconnecting/De-soldering the 6 legs X 3 each other MOSFET-type chips that were not replaced previously. This is what removed the shorting condition, not when I removed the other 8 surface-mount type resistors or sort.
- Individual ohms checks of removed components actually revealed that they were open and not shorted (Because installed they were not being read due to the short lying within the MOSFETs. (At least this is my theory so far)


Now here is the thing, what are these little surface-mount type components circled in Blue and Purple? I originally thought they were resistors and still kind of do, however with them removed the board reads nearly the same at the removed points, slightly different at some of the removed locations. There is no value written on the components and comparing values on my good board (with DMM) almost match the same as it being removed? Makes me wonder what these little guys actually do. One of the purple circled tiny ones seemed to be slightly different ohms then the board being removed 48k ohms vs 49K, however the Blue circled ones almost matched the removed board at approx 3.3K ohms. I'm thinking unless I can get a parts supply (a junk board to take from) for these components, I will probably have to send in my used one to RPMmotorsport (Don't want to steal parts from it, just to be disappointed if it doesn't work, then not have an alternative). Digikey offers all sorts of resistors and stuff, already know they have the MOSFETs, however these components circled don't have values written on them. Don't know what they are supposed to be.
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