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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan 335i software release announced! Official Details inside...



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      12-06-2007, 01:33 PM   #23
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I do not think the price will be any higher than PROcede. DINAN knows people who will get this package want power. That would be a marketing mistake given the fact that the PROcede provides more power. The cost + warranty benefits need to outweight the power advantage of PROcede for customers to choose DINAN ECU tune over alternatives.

However, it definately is a possibility for an "overpriced" product given DINAN's reputation...
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      12-06-2007, 01:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I do not think the price will be any higher than PROcede. DINAN knows people who will get this package want power. That would be a marketing mistake given the fact that the PROcede provides more power. The cost + warranty benefits need to outweight the power advantage of PROcede for customers to choose DINAN ECU tune over alternatives.
But if you think its too expensive they don't want your business. They'd rather sell 10 units @ $2000 than 40 @ $600. Less hassle, more profit, preserves the brand name.
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      12-06-2007, 01:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
But if you think its too expensive they don't want your business. They'd rather sell 10 units @ $2000 than 40 @ $600. Less hassle, more profit, preserves the brand name.
+1
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      12-06-2007, 01:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
But if you think its too expensive they don't want your business. They'd rather sell 10 units @ $2000 than 40 @ $600. Less hassle, more profit, preserves the brand name.
I'm not claiming to know the current state of the market, but from numerous posts about DINAN's relationship with BMW on the outs, and the amount of new tuners developing products specifically for E9Xs, I would think DINAN needs to reconsider less consumers at higher prices is still going to work.

DINAN has to adapt the market in order to stay alive. DINAN was able to keep high prices previously because there weren't as many tuners focusing on BMW. Look at all the companies and tuners out there as a direct result of the E9X 335. DINAN has to do something different to gain market share back. In my opinion, if DINAN continues down their current path, they can expect market share to continue to decrease until it disappears. Furthermore, why would BMW want to continue servicing DINAN parts when DINAN mods are becoming less and less used?

Just some of my opinions, but as always I could be wrong :P
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      12-06-2007, 01:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I'm not claiming to know the current state of the market, but from numerous posts about DINAN's relationship with BMW on the outs, and the amount of new tuners developing products specifically for E9Xs, I would think DINAN needs to reconsider less consumers at higher prices is still going to work.

DINAN has to adapt the market in order to stay alive. DINAN was able to keep high prices previously because there weren't as many tuners focusing on BMW. Look at all the companies and tuners out there as a direct result of the E9X 335. DINAN has to do something different to gain market share back. In my opinion, if DINAN continues down their current path, they can expect market share to continue to decrease until it disappears. Furthermore, why would BMW want to continue servicing DINAN parts when DINAN mods are becoming less and less used?

Just some of my opinions, but as always I could be wrong :P
+1. I agree 100%...I've said this before and was flamed for it.

In today's market, it's either lead, follow, or get out of the way. Dinan used to lead, and now they follow. What's next for Dinan is if they refuse to adapt to today's new market, they'll just be forced to "get out of the way."
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      12-06-2007, 01:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I do not think the price will be any higher than PROcede. DINAN knows people who will get this package want power. That would be a marketing mistake given the fact that the PROcede provides more power. The cost + warranty benefits need to outweight the power advantage of PROcede for customers to choose DINAN ECU tune over alternatives.

However, it definately is a possibility for an "overpriced" product given DINAN's reputation...
Wrong, the warranty is very valuable in many folks minds, plus Dinan is a well known name in BMW tuning and will reach a lot of folks who never come to this forum or have ever heard of Vishnu. There is no way they will sell it for less than the procede. It is pretty much established that 2000.00 is going to be the retail price w/o the oil cooler. Where I think folks are off is assuming 3000.00 with the oil cooloer, at least not installed. With install I bet it is closer to 3700.00 with the oil cooler.
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      12-06-2007, 01:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I'm not claiming to know the current state of the market, but from numerous posts about DINAN's relationship with BMW on the outs, and the amount of new tuners developing products specifically for E9Xs, I would think DINAN needs to reconsider less consumers at higher prices is still going to work.

DINAN has to adapt the market in order to stay alive. DINAN was able to keep high prices previously because there weren't as many tuners focusing on BMW. Look at all the companies and tuners out there as a direct result of the E9X 335 series. DINAN has to do something different to gain market share back. In my opinion, if DINAN continues down their current path, they can expect market share to continue to decrease until it disappears. Furthermore, why would BMW want to continue servicing DINAN parts when DINAN mods are becoming less and less used.

Just some of my opinions.
I think it's a big mistake to assume this forum makes up the overall market.

Dinan has never catered to the lower cost forum crowd, they go after the premium market. For better or worse, what they are doing now is no different than what they've always done. If they offer this reflash at say $1499 with a warranty, they are going to be the new gold standard for 335i tuning. Especially if they know what they are doing with the tune.

Sure all of us on the forum will gripe and complain (and hopefully all buy JB2s instead), but at that price with decent performance gains they will outsell all of us piggyback tuners combined.
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      12-06-2007, 01:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I'm not claiming to know the current state of the market, but from numerous posts about DINAN's relationship with BMW on the outs, and the amount of new tuners developing products specifically for E9Xs, I would think DINAN needs to reconsider less consumers at higher prices is still going to work.

DINAN has to adapt the market in order to stay alive. DINAN was able to keep high prices previously because there weren't as many tuners focusing on BMW. Look at all the companies and tuners out there as a direct result of the E9X 335. DINAN has to do something different to gain market share back. In my opinion, if DINAN continues down their current path, they can expect market share to continue to decrease until it disappears. Furthermore, why would BMW want to continue servicing DINAN parts when DINAN mods are becoming less and less used?

Just some of my opinions, but as always I could be wrong :P
+1 - they have to set their price right.
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      12-06-2007, 01:56 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
I think it's a big mistake to assume this forum makes up the overall market.

Dinan has never catered to the lower cost forum crowd, they go after the premium market. For better or worse, what they are doing now is no different than what they've always done. If they offer this reflash at say $1499 with a warranty, they are going to be the new gold standard for 335i tuning. Especially if they know what they are doing with the tune.

Sure all of us on the forum will gripe and complain (and hopefully all buy JB2s instead), but at that price with decent performance gains they will outsell all of us piggyback tuners combined.
I agree $1500 is a nice price. I would assume the price will be close to the retail of PROcede due to the popularity and name of that piggyback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
+1. I agree 100%...I've said this before and was flamed for it.

In today's market, it's either lead, follow, or get out of the way. Dinan used to lead, and now they follow. What's next for Dinan is if they refuse to adapt to today's new market, they'll just be forced to "get out of the way."
Exactly why I think DINAN is making a mistake if they price too high. I currently work for a company that is #1 in its market. They've reached this point because of high quality and trusted products. However, we are beginnign to lose market share to "new players" due to similar performance/features but at a reduced cost. I am currently working on the next generation product. Here's our main points of interest: COST, power, and weight. Cost being the most important. In all markets, price is the final decision.

Last thought... I promise lol! I'm not saying DINAN is going to change all its prices. However, for the 335 specifically, there are options out there for less, and the 335 is a car that appeals to more than the affluent. Many young professionals are getting this car. Owning the car is within their means, but that might not leave much left over for outrageously priced after market parts.


BTW if I'm wrong, which I very much could be, I give you permission to flame me :P
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      12-06-2007, 01:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukey View Post
I agree $1500 is a nice price. I would assume the price will be close to the retail of PROcede due to the popularity and name of that piggyback.
FWIW I don't think they give a rats ass how the procede, JB2, TT, etc are priced. I think it will have more to do with what the high end market is willing to pay for ~40rwhp and a warranty. I think its around $1500-$2000...
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      12-06-2007, 02:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
FWIW I don't think they give a rats ass how the procede, JB2, TT, etc are priced. I think it will have more to do with what the high end market is willing to pay for ~40rwhp and a warranty. I think its around $1500-$2000...
True statement. The aren't pricing it based on competition because they offer something that no one else can....Warranty. Because of this they can use a "skimming" technique in which they start off at a high price to recover R&D costs and the possible costs of warranty issues. Then, in a year or two they lower the price to increase demand and make their product last longer....
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      12-06-2007, 02:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
I think it's a big mistake to assume this forum makes up the overall market.

Dinan has never catered to the lower cost forum crowd, they go after the premium market. For better or worse, what they are doing now is no different than what they've always done. If they offer this reflash at say $1499 with a warranty, they are going to be the new gold standard for 335i tuning. Especially if they know what they are doing with the tune.

Sure all of us on the forum will gripe and complain (and hopefully all buy JB2s instead), but at that price with decent performance gains they will outsell all of us piggyback tuners combined.
Exactly what I was saying above. Like it or not, Dinan is much bigger than e90post. You might notice part of their marketing plan isn't coming here and responding to sflgator when he says they are washed up and will never sell any units.

That being said, I'm glad to stick with my JB2(R), 40 dollar K&N, and cheap exhaust mod. But there is a large market for "overpriced" Dinan products and if the flash came in at 1500.00 with a good tune, even a cheap guy like me would be tempted. Of course I'd also be looking at adding Terry's pill on top of it if I could get away with it
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      12-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
Of course I'd also be looking at adding Terry's pill on top of it if I could get away with it
Amen to that. I never met a mass produced tune I couldn't improve.
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      12-06-2007, 02:07 PM   #36
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Haha, I guess DINANs marketing scheme worked. Look at all of us getting heated up about the product and its pricing
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      12-06-2007, 02:09 PM   #37
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ok, all you experts... explain to me why you could not run this mild flash with say the Turbo Tuner. If the PSI for this flash is around 11 and the TT fools the ECU in thinking it's only 8, then your real PSI is 14. Wouldn't the new flashed ECU be able to adjust to the 14 PSI now being produced?
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      12-06-2007, 02:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
FWIW I don't think they give a rats ass how the procede, JB2, TT, etc are priced. I think it will have more to do with what the high end market is willing to pay for ~40rwhp and a warranty. I think its around $1500-$2000...
I gotta say I agree here.

I love the PROcede and for $1500 it's the most powerful option out there, and allows for personal customization based on individual needs/use.

But, forums crowds are the extreme enthusiasts.
We make up probably 2% of 335i owners (at most).

There will be a TON of 335i owners who want MORE power, but also don't want to have to worry about removing anything for warranty coverage.
They won't give a rats arse about customization of power levels.
They simply WANT more power.

Based on Dinan's hp/torqe claims, they are equal to the PROcede v1.47 in power (actually a tiny bit more if those power claims are on 91 Octane fuel).
To get that level of performance (+45-50 rwhp), plus maintain all factory warranties for $2000 would be a no brainer for A LOT of people
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      12-06-2007, 02:11 PM   #39
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Quick question, does anyone know how DINANs policy works for Extended Warranty?

I purchased the extended warranty and was wondering if it would still be covered by DINAN with their re-flash.

I read their warranty section.... looks like its only for the new car limited warranty...
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      12-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
Amen to that. I never met a mass produced tune I couldn't improve.

In that case I may want to be one of your testers. Keep it in mind
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      12-06-2007, 02:13 PM   #41
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I think most of you are missing the point on this... DINAN caters to people who have money, who want to drop their car off at the dealer pick it up later that day and want it to be faster, not the FASTEST, keep their warranty and forget about it.

Driver72 said it best, for $1500-2000 for most people, it's a done deal - myself included. My car is my daily driver and i'm 5min from a Dinan certified dealer.
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      12-06-2007, 02:15 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe View Post
ok, all you experts... explain to me why you could not run this mild flash with say the Turbo Tuner. If the PSI for this flash is around 11 and the TT fools the ECU in thinking it's only 8, then your real PSI is 14. Wouldn't the new flashed ECU be able to adjust to the 14 PSI now being produced?
I think +3psi might be too much, but I have a few ideas for a stealthy +1psi setup. Can't wait to get my hands on a Dinan reflashed car to play around.
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      12-06-2007, 02:16 PM   #43
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I think +3psi might be too much, but I have a few ideas for a stealthy +1psi setup. Can't wait to get my hands on a Dinan reflashed car to play around.
Yeah, I would figure it all depends on what else that flash does. They arnt just gonna bump up boost, right?
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      12-06-2007, 02:24 PM   #44
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I think most of you are missing the point on this... DINAN caters to people who have money, who want to drop their car off at the dealer pick it up later that day and want it to be faster, not the FASTEST, keep their warranty and forget about it.

Driver72 said it best, for $1500-2000 for most people, it's a done deal - myself included. My car is my daily driver and i'm 5min from a Dinan certified dealer.
I second that. I don't even cut my own grass, the last thing I want to do is tinker with my brand new [almost] $50k car. If I do anything, it will be a Dinan solution.
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