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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Helix Attaché 335i (Auto) VS PROcede 1.47 335i (6 spd) VIDEO



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      12-07-2007, 05:34 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
I could go find some sucker with V2 and stomp him on video..
So tell us how you really feel about V2 owners?
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      12-07-2007, 05:38 AM   #46
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A little off topic, but has anyone had a chance to auto-x a procede or xede? I'm curious if all the power makes for a tough run in second gear. I'm not all about the road racing as my dad is a cop and he has shown me some pretty gruesome things.
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      12-07-2007, 05:40 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
Me too. I am sure the Helix is the best thing since sliced bread and is super cheap, but unless someone is going to back up the videos with dyno charts showing some serious power increases over the well-published PROcede 1.47 dynos, I'm going to have to call the video

The reason is that there's no "magic bullet" here guys. There's nothing significantly different about any of the high-end tunes (except for direct boost control on PROcede V2). So none of them really have an advantage (except gearing between the MT an AT) over the other that would explain how bad the camera car got walked. Which is why this is

The only way that those videos are legit is if the Helix was making at least 40-60whpwhtq more than the camera car (or the camera car was stock). You can't walk a competitor like that without considerably more power - I mean, it wasn't even close.

So, unless this is all BS, stop screwing around and just take the car to a dyno and let's see the numbers!! It's the best way to back up the video and only costs you $60 (at the most).
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      12-07-2007, 06:38 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned335i View Post
Me too. I am sure the Helix is the best thing since sliced bread and is super cheap, but unless someone is going to back up the videos with dyno charts showing some serious power increases over the well-published PROcede 1.47 dynos, I'm going to have to call the video

The reason is that there's no "magic bullet" here guys. There's nothing significantly different about any of the high-end tunes (except for direct boost control on PROcede V2). So none of them really have an advantage (except gearing between the MT an AT) over the other that would explain how bad the camera car got walked. Which is why this is

The only way that those videos are legit is if the Helix was making at least 40-60whpwhtq more than the camera car (or the camera car was stock). You can't walk a competitor like that without considerably more power - I mean, it wasn't even close.

So, unless this is all BS, stop screwing around and just take the car to a dyno and let's see the numbers!! It's the best way to back up the video and only costs you $60 (at the most).
FWIW the 11-13 psi tune(91 octane) dyno'd 18whp higher than the procede same day, same car. Art has the 13-14.5 psi(93 octane) tune on his car and that puts out about 8hp more than the 13 psi tune so all in all its about a 26whp difference starting from 3200rpm to redline. I agree that its very hard to compare an auto vs. a manual car as the gearing is different. But my car ran a 12.8@113.2mph on just the Attache(no power mods other than the tune and the same program as Art) and 96 octane fuel.

There is a difference in the Attache and procede and any other tune for that matter, in both the tuning and the hardware, The attache interferes more wires than the procede and I'm sure the tuning is not the same.

Heres the dyno comparing Alex'(hyperM3's) attache(91 octane map 11-13psi) vs procede 1.4:

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 12-07-2007 at 07:35 AM.
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      12-07-2007, 06:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
*Poof*.......there goes Helix's credibility
How's that? All we provided Art with was the Attache Tune. Helix has been upfront with every ounce of data whether it be dyno's, dyno comparisons on pump vs race gas as well as track times. Both Art as well as Alex had Procedes prior to the Attache, they PAID for the Attache tested it, drove it and BOTH sold their procedes to other local guys whats that say about credibility?

Heres the track runs(12.8@113.2) on my(car 335) Attache 13-14.5psi map on 96 octane, absoluletly no other power mods other than the Attache and 96 octane fuel. that means bone stock exhaust, bone stock intake. This is the SAME map that both Art and Alex now have in their car although I want to tweak Arts a little as the auto behaves a little differently than the manual.

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management; 12-07-2007 at 07:05 AM.
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      12-07-2007, 08:08 AM   #50
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Unless the Helix is now for sale to the public, you sold Art the Attache to publicize the product. Problem is, your boy's little video isn't a fair comparison. One of the provisions you should have discussed with him was if he was going to make a video(which im sure you knew about), then it must be AT/AT, MT/MT, same gears, etc. Now there's going to be 10 pages about how this race is bullshit and more proof is needed.

He embarrassed Helix. I didnt mean to say that Helix lacks credibility, I'm sure you are all fine tuners, I was speaking more about the attache.

One last thing. Why do people need to use anything above 93 octane when the rest of the world, 95% of the time, uses 93<?

Go to the track or dyno stock with 93 and the attache and then make a thread.
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      12-07-2007, 08:16 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Unless the Helix is now for sale to the public, you sold Art the Attache to publicize the product. Problem is, your boy's little video isn't a fair comparison. One of the provisions you should have discussed with him was if he was going to make a video(which im sure you knew about), then it must be AT/AT, MT/MT, same gears, etc. Now there's going to be 10 pages about how this race is bullshit and more proof is needed.

He embarrassed Helix. I didnt mean to say that Helix lacks credibility, I'm sure you are all fine tuners, I was speaking more about the attache.

One last thing. Why do people need to use anything above 93 octane when the rest of the world, 95% of the time, uses 93<?

Go to the track or dyno stock with 93 and the attache and then make a thread.
Dude, relax. It's just a race. A mistake was made. Big whoop. Move on.
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      12-07-2007, 08:16 AM   #52
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Something sure doesn't look right with that vid.. I can't imagine the Attache' destroying the 1.47 that badly. This is why I don't hold much to vids.. I'm still very much pro helix though.
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      12-07-2007, 08:18 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90 335i View Post
Dude, relax. It's just a race. A mistake was made. Big whoop. Move on.
I was just responding to what he said, thats all, while eating a bowl of cornflakes.
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      12-07-2007, 08:21 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
I was just responding to what he said, thats all, while eating a bowl of cornflakes.
cornflakes.. sweet..
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      12-07-2007, 08:22 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Unless the Helix is now for sale to the public, you sold Art the Attache to publicize the product. Problem is, your boy's little video isn't a fair comparison. One of the provisions you should have discussed with him was if he was going to make a video(which im sure you knew about), then it must be AT/AT, MT/MT, same gears, etc. Now there's going to be 10 pages about how this race is bullshit and more proof is needed.

He embarrassed Helix. I didnt mean to say that Helix lacks credibility, I'm sure you are all fine tuners, I was speaking more about the attache.

One last thing. Why do people need to use anything above 93 octane when the rest of the world, 95% of the time, uses 93<?

Go to the track or dyno stock with 93 and the attache and then make a thread.

there is a dyno thread on the attache at 93 octane and race gas.(nothing is being hidden) and FYI those guys werent sold the attache to advertise but to use in a beta group to work out bugs and perfect the tune maps. we didn't know about any videos/races until after the the fact. FYI #2 we did post track times on the 13 psi map on 93 octane 12.8@109+mph ...is there any more information we probably already POSTED that you would like to know?
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      12-07-2007, 08:28 AM   #56
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I can resolve this entire thing.. Have the helix guys throw an Attache' in my 08 auto and have me and art do some runs..
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      12-07-2007, 08:42 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
there is a dyno thread on the attache at 93 octane and race gas.(nothing is being hidden) and FYI those guys werent sold the attache to advertise but to use in a beta group to work out bugs and perfect the tune maps. we didn't know about any videos/races until after the the fact. FYI #2 we did post track times on the 13 psi map on 93 octane 12.8@109+mph ...is there any more information we probably already POSTED that you would like to know?
Wow, sorry if you didnt get to eat your cornflakes this morning. Sorry if youre disappointed with the fact that there's no reason for someone to switch from a Procede to an Attache. I've searched around a little bit for the hell of it and there are guys getting 12.8's stock everything with RUNFLATS. Oh and I'm sure you'll want to bring up limp modes, etc. Honestly, something tried and true like a Juicebox would be preferable to this right now because its been shown to be on par with a Procede. Of course you're butthurt over this one thread because this was the first instance of it going up against a Proceded car on video and people called bullshit cause the video is. I weep for you...
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      12-07-2007, 08:43 AM   #58
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wow. wasn't even close!
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      12-07-2007, 08:50 AM   #59
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heres some of the data collected so far.


13 psi track runs 12.8@109 is on pump 93 octane
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/30523422676.jpg


comparison of 13 psi(91 octane map) to Procede 1.4 on same day, same car,same dyno
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/12/34005503580.jpg



Attache 93 octane vs race gas(approx 96 octane) dyno on the 14.5psi map(93 octane map)
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...g?t=1196376260


Attache 14.5psi map(93 octane map) on 96 octane track results 12.8@113.2mph
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/12/33512274260.jpg
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      12-07-2007, 08:55 AM   #60
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Look man, I dont want to argue with you. I wanna watch Beowulf now. Your piggyback is great and the price is excellent. That being said, you need 96 octane to be on par with 1.47 numbers on 93 octane. You see the difference in the third link based on other 1.47 dyno's out there.

FWIW, you guys shoulda made the first vids instead of Arty. Then there wouldnt have been any debates.
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      12-07-2007, 08:55 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
PS. FWIW I bet the auto car was starting in 2nd. It downshifts to 2nd every time when you floor it from 40, at least mine does.
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      12-07-2007, 08:58 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Look man, I dont want to argue with you. I wanna watch Beowulf now. Your piggyback is great and the price is excellent. That being said, you need 96 octane to be on par with 1.47 numbers on 93 octane. You see the difference in the third link.

FWIW, you guys shoulda made the first vids instead of Arty. Then there wouldnt have been any debates.
the attache vs procede dyno are both on 93 octane, same day ,same fuel, same dyno.
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      12-07-2007, 08:58 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Wow, sorry if you didnt get to eat your cornflakes this morning. Sorry if youre disappointed with the fact that there's no reason for someone to switch from a Procede to an Attache. I've searched around a little bit for the hell of it and there are guys getting 12.8's stock everything with RUNFLATS. Oh and I'm sure you'll want to bring up limp modes, etc. Honestly, something tried and true like a Juicebox would be preferable to this right now because its been shown to be on par with a Procede. Of course you're butthurt over this one thread because this was the first instance of it going up against a Proceded car on video and people called bullshit cause the video is. I weep for you...
I don't think Helix is trying to get people to switch from a PROcede to the Attache'. Its more like having another option for those of us who haven't gotten a tune yet. Atleast thats how I take it. I agree something isn't right with the video, but unless the numbers I've seen and the things I've heard from Hyper are all bullshit.. I'm still interested in see'n what this thing can do when its testing stage is completed.
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      12-07-2007, 09:03 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
the attache vs procede dyno are both on 93 octane, same day ,same fuel, same dyno.
Well that is interesting then because I've been on this site for a year now and I've only seen one other car with 1.47 that dyno'd sub 300whp. Especially with 93? Come on
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      12-07-2007, 09:16 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Well that is interesting then because I've been on this site for a year now and I've only seen one other car with 1.47 that dyno'd sub 300whp. Especially with 93? Come on
the mustang dyno at helix dynos very low stock 335's dyno 250whp. What's important in the delta between stock and modified curves in which the attaché dyno'd higher than the procede v1.4. On the same car, same fuel, same dyno, same day . The owner of that car made a thread comparing the 2 tunes and subsequently sold his procede, as did the poster of this video.
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      12-07-2007, 10:02 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry335 View Post
Yeah these races and videos are a lot of fun but don't always show much. I could go find some sucker with V2 and stomp him on video (sfgator busy this weekend?), but does that really prove anything?

I prefer track times, or same day dynos. I've also come to the conclusion that autos are a lot faster in both 1/4 mile races and rolling races.
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