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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Helix Attaché 335i (Auto) VS PROcede 1.47 335i (6 spd) VIDEO



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      12-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Artz 330 View Post
all these numbers even out with the different drive ratios.
How do you figure that they even out?

MT ----- 4.8664 x 3.08 = 14.989
AT ----- 4.6816 x 3.46 = 16.198

The AT has a 8% shorter gear ratio.
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      12-07-2007, 10:57 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post
Since very few people have v2 and even fewer people have the Attache, I think that setup might be a bit difficult at the moment. Further down the road when these are in more hands Im sure there will be tons of vids posted.

I dont care what tires you have on your car, in 27 degrees, nothing is going to get traction. Racing or doing runs in these conditions is just stupid and Im not going to partake in it just so forum members can sleep at night.

When the tracks reopen in Feb, more timeslips will be available. Until then, just relax, chill by the fire, and enjoy your holidays.
lol! I was wondering why my tires were spinning and my car was going nowhere. lol!

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      12-07-2007, 10:58 AM   #91
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all these numbers even out with the different drive ratios. Alex since everyone is calling BS, looks like I will bring out the 335i tonight, call my friend with procede 1.47, my friend with JB2r, and you.. I will even bring out my M and show you that my M pulls on the JB2R and 1.47 and then I will also run the M agaist my Auto trans 335i and alex's 6 speed.
No reason to do anymore runs. As Alex has stated, with the temps being below 30 degrees, you're not going to get any traction. Plus with all that torque, your wheels are going to spin...
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      12-07-2007, 11:07 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Sapphire135i View Post
Man are you guys hating, I was in the camera car recording. On the first run the auto did downshift into second because the AT was at to low rpm, the next run was in 3rd gear they gunned it and even I was surprised I was wondering if he was really in third I look down and he is..... So the video is real, why would artz friend drive slow on perpose. We wanted to see what the difference was and we got it

As for the people saying find an E92 with auto we don't know anyone with an auto that is willing to do this...

Good morning all.

OK, wait, your statement here is confusing or something.
If you were in the camera car recording...which was the manual car, how could you of looked down too see if the auto car (Helix) was really in 3rd??

Something is up with these runs too.

I have an auto v1.47 coupe and I don't lose that bad to a v2.02 car.

Here's what I'm thinking.

1. The PROcede car was a manual the Helix an auto.
The autos are worth a full CL as it is over the manuals.

2. The manual PROcede car also had a passenger videotaping, I suspect the Helix car had no passenger. And what were the weights of the people in each car. If the PROcede driver was heavier than the Helix car driver the Helix car could of had significantly less weight in his car.

3. I also suspect the Helix car was on the high boost map and probably running race gas mixture as well.

4. The PROcede car probably had more fuel in the tank and was only on 93 Octane.

5. The Helix car most likely downshifted if they started at a speed/gear where the rpms where less than 4000.

6. It's hard to tell in the video, but did the Helix car also have aftermarket wheels? And did the PROcede car have stock wheels? If so, I'd guess the Helix car's wheels were lighter too, giving yet another advantage.


It just all adds up to a pretty sizeable advantage for the Helix driver.
If the Helix can trap 113 on 96 Octane race gas mix with the higher boost, plus had less weight (maybe as much as 300 lbs if it didn't have a passenger, had less gas, had lighter wheels, had a lighter driver), and it downshifted to a lower gear, I can see it pulling 5-6+ CL on the v1.47 PROcede car like it did, but clearly then with all those factors, it was not a fair race.
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      12-07-2007, 11:16 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Good morning all.

OK, wait, your statement here is confusing or something.
If you were in the camera car recording...which was the manual car, how could you of looked down too see if the auto car (Helix) was really in 3rd??

Something is up with these runs too.

I have an auto v1.47 coupe and I don't lose that bad to a v2.02 car.

Here's what I'm thinking.

1. The PROcede car was a manual the Helix an auto.
The autos are worth a full CL as it is over the manuals.

2. The manual PROcede car also had a passenger videotaping, I suspect the Helix car had no passenger. And what were the weights of the people in each car. If the PROcede driver was heavier than the Helix car driver the Helix car could of had significantly less weight in his car.

3. I also suspect the Helix car was on the high boost map and probably running race gas mixture as well.

4. The PROcede car probably had more fuel in the tank and was only on 93 Octane.

5. The Helix car most likely downshifted if they started at a speed/gear where the rpms where less than 4000.

6. It's hard to tell in the video, but did the Helix car also have aftermarket wheels? And did the PROcede car have stock wheels? If so, I'd guess the Helix car's wheels were lighter too, giving yet another advantage.


It just all adds up to a pretty sizeable advantage for the Helix driver.
If the Helix can trap 113 on 96 Octane race gas mix with the higher boost, plus had less weight (maybe as much as 300 lbs if it didn't have a passenger, had less gas, had lighter wheels, had a lighter driver), and it downshifted to a lower gear, I can see it pulling 5-6+ CL on the v1.47 PROcede car like it did, but clearly then with all those factors, it was not a fair race.
While Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you wrote, you just proved a valid point.

The fact is, if anyone looks hard enough, they can find faults in any race. No race will ever be equal or fair. Way too many parameters for people to complain about. Unless timeslips are involved, racing on the street proves nothing.

C'est la vie.
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      12-07-2007, 11:37 AM   #94
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While Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you wrote, you just proved a valid point.

The fact is, if anyone looks hard enough, they can find faults in any race. No race will ever be equal or fair. Way too many parameters for people to complain about. Unless timeslips are involved, racing on the street proves nothing.

Cest la vis.

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      12-07-2007, 11:51 AM   #95
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I want to apologize to everyone, my post came out all wrong. All I meant to say was that for the first video posted about the Attache, it should have been an equal comparison. I do look forward to reading more about it because I've learned a lot since I'm been here and with the new products that are continually released, we all learn more each day.

Revah as much as I would love to respond to you, I won't. Just as you're free to post your opinion, I'm free to ignore it since I could really care less what you think. Lets leave it at that mmkay?
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      12-07-2007, 11:58 AM   #96
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PS. FWIW I bet the auto car was starting in 2nd. It downshifts to 2nd every time when you floor it from 40, at least mine does.
Not in manual mode. I drive around all the time in manual mode, give it 100% full thottle at 2000 rpm's with no downshift. Just push down to the detent button on the accelerator. Works great
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      12-07-2007, 12:04 PM   #97
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Not in manual mode. I drive around all the time in manual mode, give it 100% full thottle at 2000 rpm's with no downshift. Just push down to the detent button on the accelerator. Works great
If you are starting at 40 MPH in 3rd and you push in the accel 100% you will go past the Kick Point, and at 40 MPH it will downshift to second gear. When we started in 3rd gear at 40 MPH I held it before the kick point, untill I got high enough in the RPM range where it would not downshift. When we started off in 60MPH we were both in 3rd again and at this point I did go past the kick down because at this point it could not shift into a lower gear.
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      12-07-2007, 12:14 PM   #98
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If you are starting at 40 MPH in 3rd and you push in the accel 100% you will go past the Kick Point, and at 40 MPH it will downshift to second gear. When we started in 3rd gear at 40 MPH I held it before the kick point, untill I got high enough in the RPM range where it would not downshift. When we started off in 60MPH we were both in 3rd again and at this point I did go past the kick down because at this point it could not shift into a lower gear.
When you press the accelerator down to the detent point, you are at 100% full throttle. It will not downshift at this point unless you are below about 1100 rpm's. The only reason to press the accelerator past the detent point would be to induce a downshift as the throttle is already 100% at the detent point on the accerlator. So not sure why you would press the accelerator passed the detent point if you did not want a downshift?
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      12-07-2007, 12:19 PM   #99
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When you press the accelerator down to the detent point, you are at 100% full throttle. It will not downshift at this point unless you are below about 1100 rpm's. The only reason to press the accelerator past the detent point would be to induce a downshift as the throttle is already 100% at the detent point on the accerlator. So not sure why you would press the accelerator passed the detent point if you did not want a downshift?
LOL becasue that is not considered WOT, which is usually what you do when you race...
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      12-07-2007, 12:50 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
How do you figure that they even out?

MT ----- 4.8664 x 3.08 = 14.989
AT ----- 4.6816 x 3.46 = 16.198

The AT has a 8% shorter gear ratio.
FWIW:

Manual final:

(+ means taller, - means shorter)

1: 12.50 == +13%
2: 7.39 == +9%
3: 4.87 == +7.5%
4: 3.67 == +7%
5: 3.08 == -2%
6: 2.68 == -12%

Auto final:

1: 14.43
2: 8.10
3: 5.26
4: 3.94
5: 3.01
6: 2.39

As you can see, the ZF auto in the 335 has a 13% more aggressive gear ratio for 1st, 9% in 2nd, and so on. Pretty considerable.

5th gear is a wee bit more relaxed though, at -2%, but 6th (overdrive, if you may) is quite a bit more relaxed at -12%.

A bit off-topic, but, this explains the slightly superior highway mpg of the auto 335i over the manual cars, even though they weigh slightly more (22lbs), and have a slightly higher drivetrain loss. Nonetheless apparently the 12% more relaxed gearing in 6th gear overcomes those two things to give the AT a ~1mpg improvement at hwy cruise.
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      12-07-2007, 12:54 PM   #101
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quick question... whats the time frame for the helix to be released?
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      12-07-2007, 12:56 PM   #102
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quick question... whats the time frame for the helix to be released?
A few posts sooner than the last time this question was asked.
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      12-07-2007, 12:58 PM   #103
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quick question... whats the time frame for the helix to be released?
OR, the obvious answer, when its ready.
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      12-07-2007, 01:09 PM   #104
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OR, the obvious answer, when its ready.
Jerk!!!













lol! Just playing.

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      12-07-2007, 01:16 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
FWIW the 11-13 psi tune(91 octane) dyno'd 18whp higher than the procede same day, same car. Art has the 13-14.5 psi(93 octane) tune on his car and that puts out about 8hp more than the 13 psi tune so all in all its about a 26whp difference starting from 3200rpm to redline. I agree that its very hard to compare an auto vs. a manual car as the gearing is different. But my car ran a 12.8@113.2mph on just the Attache(no power mods other than the tune and the same program as Art) and 96 octane fuel.

There is a difference in the Attache and procede and any other tune for that matter, in both the tuning and the hardware, The attache interferes more wires than the procede and I'm sure the tuning is not the same.

Heres the dyno comparing Alex'(hyperM3's) attache(91 octane map 11-13psi) vs procede 1.4:

[IMG][/IMG]
The torque is almost exactly the same, this wouldn't yield a very noticeable difference but it sounds like this guy in the video was running a higher boost map so hard to say...
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      12-07-2007, 01:16 PM   #106
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there is a dyno thread on the attache at 93 octane and race gas.(nothing is being hidden) and FYI those guys werent sold the attache to advertise but to use in a beta group to work out bugs and perfect the tune maps. we didn't know about any videos/races until after the the fact. FYI #2 we did post track times on the 13 psi map on 93 octane 12.8@109+mph ...is there any more information we probably already POSTED that you would like to know?
To walk a car like that you need at least 50-60whp more, which I don't see.
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      12-07-2007, 01:18 PM   #107
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To walk a car like that you need at least 50-60whp more, which I don't see.
You cant see socks pulled all the way up and shoelaces tied tight.
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      12-07-2007, 01:25 PM   #108
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All I can say is "I hope all the hype about this product is 100% true when it is released."
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      12-07-2007, 01:27 PM   #109
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All I can say is "I hope all the hype about this product is 100% when it is released."
For the price, the hype cant be beat.
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      12-07-2007, 01:34 PM   #110
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330+ hp on a mustang dyno with race gas is good but a v2 will do more than that (still assuming race gas) and still won't pull as hard as this video displays over 1.47... wonder what the deal is? I think auto vs. manual explains 1 car length, the next two could to to a better mod but it's still hard to believe just due to the burst of power out of the hole. Does ATTACHE use dual solenoid boost controll? The thing that is really odd is just how hard the HELIX pulls in the first gear, after that is more understandable...
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