Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue
You make some good points here and there, and then nullify it with blanket statements like this which are clearly either trollish, or just plain wrong. You do realize they sell BMWs in Germany, right? And you do realize they do have snow and hills and mountains, right? And you do realize a large percentage of those vehicles that BMW sells to the snowy Germans are RWD, right? So is BMW negligent in selling RWD cars to people who live in snowy areas of Europe as well as the snow belt in the US?
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No. BMW isn't negligent because people select the product they want.
Please stop with ridiculous statements.
I think Europeans drive dramatically less than Americans, take more time off particularly in inclement weather, and are less likely to need AWD even in snowy climates.
I think Europeans tend to drive older cars and trade up a lot less than Americans.
I also think XDrive is relatively new to the marketplace, and will take longer to penetrate in Europe. Even in the US, people are adopting AWD slowly. The fact is as more options become available, more people are buying them, particularly in the colder climates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue
Most people will "get along 'fine' with snow tires" in winter. Some people have extenuating circumstances (the exception rather than the rule) which would necessitate AWD (such as ungroomed areas or hilly areas). The rest of the time, they're lugging around more weight, less balance, less efficiency, and more shit that can break, and it costs extra in the first place. There are practical drawbacks to the AWD on the E9X, and for some the trade off is worth it, but for a vast majority of those of us in the snow belt, RWD plus snow tires plus common sense will be just fine.
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There it is again. It's like clockwork. RWD with snows is "fine." "You'll get along "fine."
"Fine" is a piece of shit standard for people driving the "ultimate driving machine."
I want an ultimate driving experience, not a "Fine driving experience." I don't want to just "get along okay" I think 90% of the people that bother to sign up and log into an enthusist community regularly to discuss these things are the same way. Go buy a f*cking Toyota for a the "Fine Driving Machine" I can get along "fine" in snow boots or on a bicycle too. People in my office actually commute to work in snowstorms on a bike "just fine."
Give me a break. Fine.
$50,000 to get along "fine."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue
To insinuate that it is irresponsible and dangerous, while claiming that AS tires in the same conditions are OK because of AWD, well.... It just doesn't make sense. Even when you do introduce snow tires plus AWD into the argument, of course the x-drive will be significantly better in snowy conditions, but how many people here are actually inconvenienced enough by the weather to warrant an offset to the drawbacks of the system?
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I'm not insinuating. Don't you understand the paradox of saying snow tires on the worst driveline system for inclement weather is okay, but AWD with all seasons is not? How can you accept a poor standard over a moderate one? 4 wheels with okay rubber is eons better than 2 wheels with good rubber. It's not speculation. Get out in the snow and try it for a week objectively. It's not even close. I drove 8 years in AWD with all seasons on two different cars. During that time, I also drove a 540 with snows, and a VW with all seasons. I'd rank both AWD vehicles ahead of every other one, with the 540 DEAD LAST - even after the VW (FWD) with all seasons.
Not even close. Most of the time, the 2WD cars
couldn't even get out of the driveway without snow shovels, salt, rocking, etc.
Someone asking advice and being told to drive in snow in the worst driveline format available is getting bad advice. The advisor is irresponsible. It's not the same. In fact, they're better off in FWD than RWD with apples to apples rubber. If you deny that, you should stop advising people in the automotive theater.
As for how inconvenient it is for a person, that's too broad a brush to paint this discussion. Are there people in Long Island that are "fine" without AWD, sure. It depends on snow / ice / road conditions in their area, hills, how much they drive, if their a casual commuter or driving enthusiast, etc. I'm not taking that bait.