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      11-27-2011, 05:29 PM   #23
luckyu
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Drives: 2007 328i, 1998 328i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumperx View Post
Quite simple, I think you've answered your own question. If you know "the theoretical benefit of replacing bushings with ball joints", then the outcome is (what you are looking for) "steering accuracy and on-center" feedback. It just that simple.
I probably shouldn't have seemed to jump on you; it wasn't my intention. And I also didn't mean to discount your contribution, or in any way cast doubt on the performance of the part. Summarizing what others have said, as I think you were trying to do earlier, makes perfect sense and is valuable as confirmation.

Reducing deflection in the rear suspension does not always have a noticeable effect on on-center feel. For examples of this, I give you the M3 subframe bushings, rear guide link, and rear wishbone link.

Quote:
The "difference" is the spherical bearing eliminates slop and alignment changes that stock rubber bushings under load. Unlike DAFish's direction, my focus and direction was to supplement positive lateral input by changing three of links (rear guide arms, rear upper link, and rear toe arms) and at track geometry changes.
I believe it. But, to press the issue: you didn't directly observe the elimination of slop. You didn't have a camera under there, or Bubba under there, to watch the toe arm as you careened around the track. You observed something else, some effect of the slop being eliminated. I'm asking about what that effect was.

If you were to say, for example, that it feels as if there is less play, or less dead zone, in the steering at or near center -- then I would know what you're saying. If you were to say there is some (more) wiggling and writhing of the steering wheel, on center, at 110 mph -- then I would know what you're saying. If you were to say, the car reacts faster to initial steering inputs (short form: "faster turn in") -- then I would know what you're saying.

It's your description of what you actually observed, as opposed to what you deduced, that I wanted to elicit from you.

Quote:
More importantly having installed: M3 front end bits, sway bars, performance shocks, and performance tires all together contribute in how I want my car to behave. For me it wasn't just changing the rear toe links; rather, a total suspension package changes (with more upgrades to come) to meet a more "planted" feel.
This is a very important point, and I agree with you. Usually there's no one piece that has an intended effect by itself. The various parts work together to stiffen up the chassis.

It sounds like you did change the rear arms first, without the M3 subframe bushings, and were not satisfied with the result, at least on the race track but maybe on the road as well.
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2007 328i ZSP. M3 suspension: custom valved Bilstein shocks, Hyperco race springs, M3 lower control arms front and rear, M3 sway bars, and M3 subframe bushings. E46 front guide supports. Euro tail lights.
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