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      03-20-2012, 02:44 PM   #17
Second Lieutenant

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Willowbrook, IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1997 BMW M3  [0.00]
2009 BMW 335d  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3  [0.00]
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
As previously discussed, a dyno comparing someone else's stock car to yours after the tune is irrelevant IMO. Not to mention, this shop that you now all of a suddon perfer, has a relationship with VS, so it's not what I would consider an "independent" dyno, since there is a vested intererst among the parties. Heck for that matter there is a vested interest among everyone involved come to think of it.

I also don't understand why now you have a problem with the Mustang dyno. That wasn't mentioned before, well except you thought the hp/torque data was below your expectations, but that is no reason why not to like the Mustang dyno. A Mustang dyno is a perfectly fine tool to use to measure gains.

If VS/Evovle did squeek out more ponies after some tweaking it wiould be reflected on a follow-up on the Mustang dyno. THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO SEE and I would think it would be in everyone's best interest to do a follow-up dyno on the Mustang dyno, otherwise I only have the gains reflected on the follow-up dyno of 40 hp/71 trq to go by.
Dyno'ing a stock car on the same Dynojet I dyno'd on is absolutely not irrelevant. Stock cars may vary what, maybe 5hp? Irrelevant.

I have a problem with the mustang because as I mentioned there is basically no resolution on the dyno, which you can CLEARLY see how it varies on the dynojet.

Also, I dyno'd my M3 on that mustang before, I thought it was just something wrong with my car, the numbers did not seem right and my ECU logs showed the car was running much less boost than it usually did on the street. Didn't seem like the car was on a proper load either. Basically I'm not a fan of the dyno and the dyno operator on it. I was also out with a friend this weekend who is a local shop owner in the area, I showed him the differances and he also mentioned that he has heard people not liking that dyno and the graphs being odd.

Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
If you are going to base your purchase decision to spend $1k+ on a tune on an extrapulation between an "independent" dyno pull on a Mustang and a dyno pull on a dyno-jet at a shop with which the tuner has relationship, have at it, it's your money not mine.

Like I said, I understand there were likely some kinks to work out, seeing how this was the first US spec 335d to run the Evolve tune, but that is no reason to throw-out and discount a follow-up on an "independent" dyno where the original baseline and 2nd dyno were conducted after VS/Evolve made the adjustments. That is really the key data point that is missing; sorry if I am not drinking the Kool-Aid, YET.
If you're not happy with it than you do it. I've posted way more data and info than anyone else on this board so far. No you're not drinking the KOOL-AID, you're just on that HATER AID.

Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
Heck, come to think of it, I know a guy running the JBD that had his car dyno'd on a dyno jet and according to that machine put down 332 whp, no baseline though. A week later he took his car to a different shop and did a dyno pull also on a dyno jet and the results were 30hp lower.

Point being different dyno's, different operators way different results, no baselines in either case, so no real way to judge gains. It is difficult to make an informed opinion on a tune based on a one-off dyno regardless of what the results say (good or bad).
No shit a different dyno will have different results, it also depends what correction and smoothing factors were used. Now another STOCK 335d on the dynojet I dyno'd on with the same correction factors IS relevant, which is what I'd like to see at some point if there is another 335d in the area that would like to.

Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
I respectfully disagree. To prevent a conflict of interest and to remove any doubt or speculation, a dyno at a shop that is completely independent from the tuner is the preferred method, which is why I would very much like to see a 3rd dyno on the same mustang dyno.

One would think if they are confident in their tune that VS/Evolve would encourage a follow up dyno on the same mustang dyno. They could even show up and supervise if they have any concerns.
There is no conflict of interest, Dean's Performance is a completely different shop than VS. They specialist in totally different cars. VS just like to use them probably because it is a good dyno with a good operator and fair rates. I wish I would have just gone there from the get go, but too late for that now.

Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
Not debating the need for the tuner to make adjustments at a shop/dyno of their choice, but I do not consider the results of the dyno beneficial in any shape or form (that's the whole point I am trying to make).

Point being after all of the changes/adjustment were made, a follow-up dyno on the same independent mustang dyno is in order, because without a 3rd follow-up independent dyno there is NOTHING to substantiate the claims that Evolve was able to squeeze out anymore hp/trq then was recorded on the 2nd follow-up dyno, unless of course you give the tuner's shop's dyno results any credit.

I do not doubt there were gains as a result of the Evolve tune, I am all for more tuning options for our 335d's, heck I have been preechiing it since I bought my car, and Evolve has an excellent repuation in Europe, but let's be real about this. Frankly I am surprised not more people are asking the same question.
I agree the number's aren't the best to go off of because I don't have the dynojet baseline, but if you compare the gains off of the mustang than off of my 2nd dyno there is around a ~60whp / ~ 90wtq gain. Also, that's not the biggest thing to look at, the biggest improvement is in the area under the curve. Look at how much tq the car gained through out the power band and the drop off that was fixed up up. You don't see those type of gains on any JBD car.

The most ideal thing would be to get a 335d to get on the dynojet I was on and graph all the numbers together.
09 335d evolve tuned - 327whp / 490wtq -- 13.0@105
95 M3 Turbo - Built 3.0l s52, PTE74GTQ, AEM EMS & CDI
97 M3 NASA TTB build for 2014!