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      09-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
Wow... you are definitely the master of outrageous, irrational hyperbole.
How am I the outrageous one when you just marginalized hard-working Americans? Is that acceptable? I know...I know...I put words into your mouth, right? You stated..."those who dont pay dropouts $30 an hour to drop a bolt in a hole.". Is that a Rmoney-like slip-up that wasn't as elegant as it could've been? Are you an elitist? Tell us how you really feel about these folks.

First you concluded that if someone doesn't like handouts, that must mean they want the children of killed soldiers to suffer, and now you are stating that I am marginalizing all blue collar workers? I cannot imagine what you will come up with next.
Actually, you generalized college grants as being handouts because you have absolutely no clue as to why these funds are accessible to certain students. My quip was to inform you, grants are far more dignified than just free money and handouts, buddy.

First of all, you are really stretching with the use of the term "profession" to describe what they do: From wikipedia : "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized high educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" Use any other source if you like, the result will be the same. They have a job, but it is not a profession, unless you also think that someone who digs a ditch with a shovel to be a professional too.
You can split hairs until you're blue in the face.

I know firsthand, people who end up dropping a bolt in a hole on an assembly line did not CHOOSE that after careful consideration, and then dedicate years of their life for prepatory training to get there. They usually fall into it because the union assures it pays well, and the only real barrier to entry is that one possesses opposable thumbs, and the ability to repeat a very rudimentary set of instructions over and over again. Any simple, repetitive task that you could literally train a bonobo monkey to perform in NOT a profession.

You are extremely condescending. The same can be said about the military or pretty much any civil servant career. The point is, we need people who are willing to do these jobs. Why or how they got there is irrelevant and you seem to be stuck on the irrelevant to prove some obscure elitist point without just stating your clear contempt. It's a dignified job hardworking, tax-paying Americans do. There is a plethora of highly-educated, highly-trained, incompetent,lazy, greedy attorneys out there, too, for example. How do you rank them on worthiness?

Obviously you must not know many blue collar workers, or you would realize that is not always the case. My neighbor is a ticketed Machinist. Not only does that involve a lot of formalized training before one could even begin to be useful, but also he did an apprenticeship that lasted over 3 years if I recall, before he was fully accredited. I have no problem with blue collar workers like that making good money. That is a profession.
"Blue collar workers like that..." What does that even mean? The nature of the job dictates the intensity of the training. And with the advancement of technology in this industry,I'm certain less involvement is necessary to build a car. Certain concessions were made due to the lost of jobs and perhaps the current wage is a reflection of that. That's standard and fair. You can't fault individuals for not being an Astrophysicist. It is what it is. A living wage is necessary. Having the opportunity to make something of one's life is necessary. Ironically, These $30/hour folks who you chide are tax payers.. Are home owners... Are shareholders.

You want to talk disgusting? How about the fact the median wage for Nurses is approx 64K a year. Yes, that means that a assembly line worker with lots of seniority who gets enough overtime could make MORE than a nurse. This is also a job that is physically demanding, requires standing on your feet all day, bending, twisting, lifting. Only it required MUCH more training, and the results of a mistake can literally kill people. If Dick Dropout fails to bolt a wheel on properly, it will be caught by QA before it hits the showroom. If Nancy nurse makes a slight miscalculation on some IV drip, that could end up being fatal. The fact that their compensation is even remotely similar is beyond disgusting to me. But, I suppose a left-wing view is that it's good that everyone is paid the same, as utopia is achieved when the outcomes of peoples personal decisions are equalized.

Sure, lets talk disgusting using your logic...But clearly you have no problem with a nurse doing the job of a highly-trained, board-certified doctor who earns 3 maybe 4 times more than them sitting idle signing off on prescriptions while his/her nurse is actually there with the patient day-in and day-out. Meanwhile the nurse is topped-out salary-wise yet is doing the duty of an actual doctor in most cases. Your argument is so retarded it leaps out of one industry and overlooks the obvious to scold another industry. How laughable is this?

BTW, a bartender in Miami, for example, can earn more than a nurse. Go cry in the mirror.