|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Today's Posts | Search |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
335i and 135i Differential FAQ (No LSD, really?)
|
|
03-05-2012, 01:41 PM | #1 |
Captain
196
Rep 933
Posts |
335i and 135i Differential FAQ (No LSD, really?)
Shortly after the N54 powered 335i and 135i were released, enthusiasts and tuners wanted to ‘fix’ the lack of limited slip differential. Making easy and abundant power was simple with the twin turbo inline 6, but putting it to the ground was not.
Enter the infamous final drive. Open, LSD, welded, bolted, large body, small body, 3.08, 3.46 etc etc. We will try to make sense of everything with this blog entry. Open vs. LSD: The 335i and 135i were not offered with a limited slip differential. Yes, BMW sold a twin turbo, 6MT sporty car without a LSD. No factory option, nothing. So, owners had to rely on the aftermarket for a solution. Initially the solution was pretty simply, till BMW switched things up on us. Open: LSD – limited slip differential: Welded vs. Bolted: Very early 6MT equipped cars had a traditional ‘bolted’ setup where the ring gear was bolted to the gear carrier. Shortly after, the engineers in Munich decided to weld, not bolt the ring gear to the gear carrier. Well, that complicates matters a bit! Welded: Bolted: (we are using a bolted aftermarket diff for illustration purposes) Master Reference Chart: Does your car have a welded or bolted differential?? See chart above. As you can see, the majority of 335i and 135i owners are blessed with the welded differential. This makes adding a LSD a bit challenging, as the ring gear must be separated from the carrier carefully to ensure it can be re-used. Very few shops can do this properly and consistently, but we pioneered the what we think is the best way of performing this operation. This is how we do it. Large or small differential? There are 2 differential (housing or ‘pumpkin’) sizes. The table above shows which cars have which size. So, a Quaife ATB limited slip unit designed for the 6MT large housing will not work in your 2009 335i automatic. Fortunately, Quaife and Wavetrac have solutions for both the large and small differentials. Here are some pics so you can see the dramatic difference: Gear Ratios: See chart above. All 6MT cars were equipped with 3.08 final drive ratios. Automatic cars had 3.46 ratios. Note: we have built a few 3.46 differentials for 6MT cars and the owners were thrilled. They were willing to sacrifice top speed for an incredible power band around town :-) Lastly, DCT equipped cars have 2.56 and diesel cars have 2.81 final drive ratios. Conclusion: When you modify your N54 or N55 powered E9X or E8X, a proper differential is an essential modification if you want to put all of that power to the ground. While it is quite confusing, I hope this entry makes it a bit easier to understand.
__________________
Brian Casella
Sales Representative, VAC Motorsports Office: 215.462.4666 | Fax: 215.462.4667 EXT 13 | Email: brian@vacmotorsports.com Last edited by Brian_VACsales; 03-05-2012 at 01:49 PM.. |
03-05-2012, 01:47 PM | #3 |
1756
Rep 17,960
Posts
Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00]
2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00] |
Nice write up Mike!
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 02:04 PM | #5 |
Objects in the mirror are losing
107
Rep 1,133
Posts
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i E92 AW/CR 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Socal (OC/Riverside)
|
+1 Awesome post Mike...All the info in one spot finally
__________________
PERFORMANCE: JB4 G5 \ Backend Flash \ DCI \ BMS Downpipes \ CX FMIC \ ER Chargepipe \ Synapse BOV \ KW V2 \ Muffler Delete \ CDV \ ZHP Shifter \ Cyba Scoops FUN: M3 Front \ Mtech Rear \ JL 10W6 \ ModMyNav \ V1 Hardwired \ LUX H8 \ Gloss Black Trim \ Gloss Black Roof \ Cyba Quads \ Cyba Mtech Diffuser |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 02:38 PM | #8 |
~~~
24
Rep 592
Posts
Drives: JB 335i-M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Simi Valley
|
Great info!!! Now that im hooked on Meth i definatly need LSD!!!
__________________
.
................ |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 02:48 PM | #10 |
The bigger they are...
19
Rep 264
Posts |
This is sooooo great!!! I am very happy you guys posted this. I will definetly give you a call when I'm ready to do a differential.
__________________
Tom Williams BMW Service Advisor
'07 335i Sport 219M Wheels, MMW CF Lip, Shadowline Taillights, Vishnu Procede, BMS DCI, BMS OCC, Aasco LW Flywheel, South Bend Clutch, Turner 90mm Studs, Stoptech pads rotors and lines, BMS LED Tag Lights, BMS Clutch Stop, BMS Clutch Non-Delay Valve, ACS Style Rear Glass Spoiler |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 02:50 PM | #12 |
Captain
196
Rep 933
Posts |
I like the 3.46 idea better ;-) Though, a 600hp car with 2.81 or 2.56 would hit some scary speeds...
Thanks guys. I could have included a ton of additional info, but I figured I'd keep it basic. The internets has plenty of differential info..but nothing 335i and 135i specific.
__________________
Brian Casella
Sales Representative, VAC Motorsports Office: 215.462.4666 | Fax: 215.462.4667 EXT 13 | Email: brian@vacmotorsports.com |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 04:10 PM | #14 | |
Captain
8
Rep 704
Posts |
Quote:
The 1M does some weird stuff on radical maneuvers at autocross, I can feel the brakes working when dropping the clutch into first while braking/turning and it stops me from generating a small slip angle through the 180 degree gates. And this is with TC all the way off... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 04:44 PM | #16 |
Captain
42
Rep 659
Posts |
i got a bolted diff, large housing. how hard is it to install quaife (or even wavetrac) ?
is this a direct replacement or will i have to worry about adding/removing shims ? i'm somewhat familiar with backlash measurement, but i'm not a pro. nobody around me (okc) has experience installing lsd on e90. i talked to my euro-shop today, they don't even have the tool to unhook the drivetrain. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 04:58 PM | #17 |
Major
60
Rep 1,065
Posts
Drives: RB PWRED E90 N54 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA
|
__________________
RB Turbo/Procede V5/Vishnu PWM Meth Injection Kit/Vishnu DCI/AR Catless DP/AE Performance Exhaust(Sold)/Helix FMIC/Forge DVs/Rixster Vent Boost Gauge/Wavetrac LSD/KW V3/ACT Street Clutch Kit
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 05:04 PM | #18 |
Captain
15
Rep 603
Posts |
Are the part numbers for the Quaife the same for all large housings, ie. AT vs.MT?
I've been having noise issues after a recent install and this may shed some light although Quaife should have confirmed based on the provided VIN. I'm a large housing bolted AT and a 10N was installed. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 05:17 PM | #19 |
Lieutenant
48
Rep 403
Posts |
Question, I'm seriously considering buying another 135 or 335i.
Are the bigger diff's stronger? If so, you can't get a 135i AT with the larger diff, correct? The only 335i AT you can get with the larger diff and a bolted diff is a build date of 7/07 or earlier, correct? It's cheaper to put lsd in a bolted diff, correct? By how much? Thanks, had a 12/06 build 335i for 3 years. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 05:31 PM | #20 |
Major General
3479
Rep 6,785
Posts
Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach
iTrader: (1)
Garage List 2012 BMW e92 M3 [0.00]
2021 BMW X5M [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 Tu ... [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 GT3 [10.00] |
I did a lot of searching in various posts before buying an LSD...this post is very good for those of you looking to research LSD options for you car.
The LSD is one of the best mods you can ever do. Shame on BMW for not including this as an option.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo (930) a couple others IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w |
Appreciate
0
|
03-05-2012, 05:31 PM | #21 |
Brigadier General
164
Rep 3,730
Posts |
Great writeup. Quaife LSD was the best mod I ever did to the car (yes better than the Rob Becks). I love the one wheel burn out photo
__________________
2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
Tags |
differential, final drive, lsd, quaife, wavetrac |
|
|