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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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JBL MS-8 Processor Integration Thread
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06-07-2012, 11:28 AM | #639 |
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I know this is obvious so please dont take offense, but are you SURE that all of your phase relationships are correct between all the drivers? Its easy to assume you did everything right but overlook something simple.
Im also a "pro" and I struggled with the MS-8 until I went back to basics with my system and worked out all the phase relationships taking into account the various crossovers in my system, I ended up reversing the polarity of my underseats because of an amp crossover messing things up (RTA showed a dip as well) and then used to the "Kaigoss workaround" for the sub calibration. Now everything sounds great.....basically once I found "the method" for my setup I was able to get consistent, good sounding results.....but getting there was definitely a challenge. Kaigoss also has a good point about efficiency.....the MS-8 doesnt put out a ton of power....it works great with the relatively efficient L7 speakers, but maybe not so good with your Focals. |
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06-07-2012, 11:54 AM | #640 |
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I would also suggest going with the KISS principle. Setup just the front door speakers and underseats and see if you can get those working. Once that is done, work on integrating the rears/center/subs.
The MS-8 does great work so long as you play by some general rules. If you are violating the rules, the MS-8 doesn't know how to resolve them. Good luck |
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06-07-2012, 01:00 PM | #641 |
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For what it's worth, I have my system working fairly well now. I've used a little lower crossover points than I mentioned earlier, but it's coming together. The main issue has been setting the midbass gain after calibration.
I also tend to swap keys on my car - I ran a calibration with one key in and all tone set to flat. When I got in the car with the next key, I had my old tone changes in there and everything sounded all screwy - so a word to the wise - verify the tone/balance controls are centered before you run any calibrations!! The only issue I have right now is a lack of subbass. I'm moving plenty of air, but there's a lack of impact. I'm fairly certain that it is a phase issue - so I'll work on sorting that out next. I also think that I'm going to relocate all the gear to the spare tire well, but I'll have to wait on that mod for a bit. The MS-8 does a great job of presenting a high stage with pretty good depth. Some songs sound very veiled, but others are great - I'm not sure what that's about, but overall - I'm pretty happy. |
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06-08-2012, 08:55 AM | #642 | |
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06-08-2012, 09:13 AM | #643 | |
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Seems to me most folks on here had to a ton of monkeying with the system to find something they find okay to good, but still have smaller issues and reservations. And then the Bluetooth can be severely compromised in order to get a good calibration. Simply does not compute with me. Either there is something big that I messed in my install or lots of rationalization going on with this product or my unit is defective (doubtful). |
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06-08-2012, 09:48 AM | #644 |
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I would add that because I have the Technic harness, it is a simple matter to swap back and cut out the MS-8 and the JL amp and sub. I have gone back and fourth a few times to be certain that I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing. Yup, I am.
There was lots of opinions (Andy W, among them) that the stock drivers are pretty good. I think not (and the fact that Harmon, his employer, designed the L7 means his opinion cannot really be objective- not dissing Andy). They are okay. But just the switch to Focals for the front 3 channels (my first audio mod on this car) was an enormous improvement, and these are cheaper Focals. Even without any level changing or EQ tweaking the sound went from maybe a 4 to a 6 on a 1-10 scale. An irony was that I sold my calibrated mics and mic amp that I used with trueRTA for calibration previously, as soon as I bought the MS-8. I wouldn't need those any longer, right? I sure don't need them in the house with Audyssey in my home theater. |
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06-08-2012, 10:23 AM | #645 |
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all I can say is that im not rationalizing anything....the setup in my E92 sounds better than almost any stereo Ive ever heard, BUT it took 2 months of trial and error and being where you are at now before I got it right.
Its been well established that the MS-8 is problematic in the 3 series....something about the setup in our cars just doesnt work with the MS-8 algorithm.....if I recall wasn't the consensus that peaky midbass from the underseats was to blame? So a simple plug and play autotune isnt going to happen for us. BUT that doesnt mean that it cant work. It was my experience that the "kaigoss workaround" worked pretty much from the start....it wasnt perfect but it was pretty good from the first calibration. I eventually worked out my own method but kaigoss's got me 90% of the way there. For the bluetooth issue....JBLs fix isnt perfect but it works well enough, I just have to remember to push the button on the remote to disable the delay when I get a call. I understand if this is more nonsense than you want to deal with so do what you got to do! Last edited by jeffb335; 06-08-2012 at 11:34 AM.. |
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06-08-2012, 10:37 AM | #646 | ||
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Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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06-08-2012, 10:47 AM | #647 |
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So after some experimentation (trying to avoid going back to the kaigoss mod at present).
I've found the following sub calibration results 1) Sub in trunk -- Boomy and overpowering 2) sub in trunk with seats backs down -- middle ground 3) sub in trunk with seats down and trunk open -- best so far... 4) yet to try - kaigoss II mod -- sub in back seat. I can say that during this experimentation, I heard a lot more frequency range in the sweep...the MS-8 is supposed to level match from 50-80hz, but it seemed more like up to 500hz...information that was getting blocked by the rear seats. |
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06-16-2012, 04:50 PM | #648 | |
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06-16-2012, 05:57 PM | #649 | |
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Euro spec wide mirrors; sport wheel + paddles; staggered sport rims with Conti ExtremeContact DW. JL Audio 600/6 + technic harness; Gladen Audio 8" Woofers + musicarnw adapters; Morel Hybrid Ovations. |
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06-19-2012, 11:47 AM | #650 | |
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06-19-2012, 12:04 PM | #651 | |
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He has posted his ideal setup for the MS-8 in a BMW in that thread. The challenges (and some workaround successes) in working with BMW systems with an added aftermarket sub are well documented here, and there. It can be done, but it's far from plug and play (unfortunately -- since that is one of the selling points of the MS-8, no professional help should be needed, but is needed, when using it with an aftermarket sub in a BMW).
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Euro spec wide mirrors; sport wheel + paddles; staggered sport rims with Conti ExtremeContact DW. JL Audio 600/6 + technic harness; Gladen Audio 8" Woofers + musicarnw adapters; Morel Hybrid Ovations. |
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06-19-2012, 05:13 PM | #653 |
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Drives: 13' F30 328i 6MT
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I would be interested as well to get my first configuration pretty damn good.
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'13 F30 328i Sport 6MT | '18 G01 X3 xDrive30i | '95 E36 325i Vert 5MT
92 Sentra SE-R SR20DET DET Build Thread 89 E30 325is [sold & missed] |
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06-19-2012, 07:04 PM | #654 |
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Here's the press release:
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...0Nationals.pdf They did the following: - added OEM tweeter to center channel - added OEM tweeters to rear doors - installed 2 12" GTi trunk subs (bandpass box, IIRC) - ran L7 amp outputs into MS-8's speaker level inputs - used (2) 4-channel amps for interior speakers - used mono amp for trunk subs The only non-OEM speakers they used were the trunk subs! I tried to mirror what JBL did with the 325i. But I did not amp the L7 speakers, I ran them off the MS-8. Worked great. Note: I believe the algorithm may have changed between this beta unit and the production units. There were reports of a key programmer having left the company and they basically had to re-program everything from scratch and that was part of the big delay in getting the unit released. So the BMW midbass problem may not have been present in the demo unit, and it may be a flaw that is still present today in the production units.
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Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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06-19-2012, 07:18 PM | #655 |
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Here's the post with some info on the 325i from Andy W. on DIYMA:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/705666-post436.html
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Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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06-19-2012, 10:11 PM | #656 |
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Sigh...
Hit a large bump on the freeway, now one channel of my MS-8 sends a loud crack through Channel 1 if I hit a bump. Parked the car, swapped Channels 1 and 2 at the MS-8 output and the crack moved sides - the static/crack could be triggered by lightly hitting down on my stealthbox. Bypassed the MS-8 and just used the crossovers in my JL amps to run the front doors, underseats, and stealthbox. Way more output at the sacrifice of the beauty of the front stage that the MS-8 puts together. Glad I bought that MS-8 under warranty.... |
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06-19-2012, 10:32 PM | #657 |
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I too plan a similar KISS install by just using Technic harness and a MS-8, at the mean time look to power all OEM speaker by using the MS-8 alone, as the MS-8 can utilize the power/ground from the existing OEM amp which means no cutting/adding any wiring are required.
Just wondering, anyone tried the MS-8 on powering the Morel Oviation 4'' XO speaker? Plan to replace the front speaker with Oviation 4'' XO, and add a center channel for a full Logic7 capability. Cheers |
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06-20-2012, 05:13 AM | #658 | |
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definately recommend centre channel and logic 7. after getting used to it u will love it. just make sure you match the power/sensitivity to the front mids |
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06-22-2012, 12:32 PM | #659 | |
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from the source, aka, JBL, at http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-post7255.html:
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Euro spec wide mirrors; sport wheel + paddles; staggered sport rims with Conti ExtremeContact DW. JL Audio 600/6 + technic harness; Gladen Audio 8" Woofers + musicarnw adapters; Morel Hybrid Ovations. |
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06-22-2012, 12:38 PM | #660 | |
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I then upgrade to Morel HO in the doors, still running off the MS8 and it really didn't improve much over the OEM speakers (gasp!) -- which means the MS8 really couldn't power them to their potential. I added an amp (see sig) and it was awesome. If the OP can't afford amp+speakers+MS8 all at once, I would recommend: 1. MS-8 now 2. amp+speakers later or 1. amp+speakers now 2. MS-8 later but I would NOT recommend 1. MS8+speakers now 2. amp later not because it sounds bad, but the speakers are mostly wasted without decent amplification, and the MS8 amps are really designed to drive easy-to-power OEM speakers, not high quality after market speakers.
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Euro spec wide mirrors; sport wheel + paddles; staggered sport rims with Conti ExtremeContact DW. JL Audio 600/6 + technic harness; Gladen Audio 8" Woofers + musicarnw adapters; Morel Hybrid Ovations. |
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