[Orb]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Hi Shiv,

I tried to accelerate from 2800-3000rpm again and again and again and finally I could reproduce and document exactly the issue. It has not been normal. You should investigate, you probably will not get better data.

- Eugen

Can you post the log so we can see it or another comparision with aog of simular load? I am tiring to understand what you’re looking at with some seriousness to this situation. We are just left hanging with bit and pieces but most mostly from Shiv.

If something is truly unsafe we all want to know about it have it resolved. Were 98% there which is better than 95% a week ago.

Orb

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Boost does not stop raising where it should. I tried the procedure 30-40 times and finally got it. There are postings on this forum describing this situation, the difference is that my car stopped at 13.2psi, other cars stop at higher boost levels. I do not recall who posted it, but there is a reason why I did the same test 30-40 times.

I still don't understand what problem you are seeing. Could you post up the log?

shiv

[e.n335]

You have the log. You got 2 pictures and 2 log-files.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e.n335

You have the log. You got 2 pictures and 2 log-files.

Eugen, I really need your help here. Did you send new logs? Or are you referring to the logs you sent me yesterday (which I posted on this forum a few pages ago)?

Specifically, these:

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by Terry335

lol I get a lot of PMs like that from happy customers, but not cool to post Tuned335i.

Thanks for posting your opinion.

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Thats an understatement.

Thanks for yours too.

[flukey]

The real question is... what charge number am I suppose to use at work for the past hour I've spent reading this entire thread?

[e92law]

BRATISLAVA, Slovakia — Two Hungarians and a Ukrainian arrested in an attempted sale of uranium were peddling material believed to be from the former Soviet Union, and it was enriched enough to be used in a radiological "dirty bomb," police said Thursday.

The three, who were arrested Wednesday in eastern Slovakia and Hungary, were trying to sell about a pound of uranium in powder form, said First Police Vice President Michal Kopcik.

"It was possible to use it in various ways for terrorist attacks," Kopcik said.

Investigators were still working to determine who ultimately was trying to buy the uranium, which the three allegedly was selling for $1 million.

He said police had intelligence suggesting that the suspects — whose names were not released — originally had planned to close the deal sometime between Monday and Wednesday. Police moved in when the sale did not occur as expected, he said.

One of the Hungarians had been living in Ukraine.

Kopcik said three other suspects — including a Slovak national identified only as Eugen K. — were detained in the neighboring Czech Republic in mid-October for allegedly trying to sell fake radioactive materials. It was unclear to what degree, if any, they played a role in the thwarted uranium sale.

[OpenFlash]

Please stay on topic guys. We're getting there....

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Eugen, I really need your help here. Did you send new logs? Or are you referring to the logs you sent me yesterday (which I posted on this forum a few pages ago)?

Specifically, these:

Here is a better description:

Originally Posted by scalbert

Thanks for the confirmation: I was pretty sure the default state was no boost (my old Typhoon was the opposite; I line blew off the boost control solenoid and I was seeing 30 PSI).

Now for the reason of the question. Everything had been fine for the most part for the last week. I should note I was out of town all of last week so the car was only driven with V2 installed for a few days total. Upon initial testing I was seeing what was expected. Everything was fine so far. Last Friday, the second day I drove the car with V2 installed, I noticed that in the mid range the car was only making a hair over 10 PSI boost. Whereas on Monday (not driven the other days) I would see 12 - 13 PSI in the mid range. This was the prompt for the load based thread I created as it was semi-cool here on Friday morning.

Fast forward to yesterday and today. Yesterday, out of curiosity, and since I know the quality of fuel in the tank, I bumped up the settings to about half way (for each value) to 100%. In other words, if it was 92%, that now become 96%, etc. I ran some logs and timing seemed to be fine although boost was spiking a bit more than I thought it should. A/F ratio also seemed in check. However, today was a different story, at least with boost; no other data was monitored.

Today, I would sometimes see spikes as high as 22 PSI but most of the time it would drop to about 15 PSI. But there was one time it didn't drop so I immediately got off of it. The kicker is that this did not occur 100% of the time; more like about 30%. Also, if I jumped on the throttle in the low revs, about 2000 RPM, and let it build from there, the boost responded correctly. It was only when I jumped fully on the throttle in the 3000 - 4000 RPM range that it would overshoot. Plus, even when slowly rolling on the throttle and no spikes, the peak boost would start climbing to about 17 PSI just before it was pulled back in the 2.0.1 map to below 10 PSI nearing redline. One time it even climbed to near 20 PSI.

I went back home and loaded back in the base 2.0.1 map and went out for some more tests. Although the spikes were less significant, it would still run as high as 20 PSI. And now it would just climb to about 16 PSI when slowly rolling on the throttle. So things were reduced but not where it had been just days before.

Next I dropped the user values by about 5 points across the board and retested. Now things seemed to be getting closer to where it had been. Spikes were down to the 17 PSI range and it would only climb to about 13 - 14 PSI. However, after several minutes things dropped altogether to where I would expect it. Plus, it was not spiking at all now. That is where I left it and planned on monitoring it on the way into the office tomorrow morning.

The below is a summary on the base 2.0.1 map:

- This only occurred about 30% of the time
- Boost spikes were running upwards of 20 PSI
- If I slowly rolled on the throttle, the spikes did not occur
- Boost occasionally climbing to 16 - 17 PSI by 5500 - 6000
- Boost would drop to below 10 PSI near redline, as it should with this map

Now the caveat, power changes were not noticeable. What I mean is that there was no power increase or decrease when the spikes occurred which with other vehicles, would have been noticeable. In fact, I would not know anything was awry unless I was monitoring the gauge. Everything seemed perfectly normal.

Since we have established how the boost control functions, I have to say it is working. But for whatever reason the boost is not dropping as designed except in other places where the duty cycle would be significantly lower. It is almost as though the solenoids or the driver for them are not responding in certain situations. That, or the TMAP input isn't working correctly 100% of the time. I need to pick up a USB extension cable to get logs from the PROcede its self to see what the I/O are doing. Or another thought, the source for the boost gauge (the diverter supply lines) do not represent the same value as seen at the TMAP.

Having programmed many PID control systems (single loops, cascading, etc.) and even some hydraulic systems, I know a thing or two about what is required for closed loop control. The difficulty here is that it works fine the majority of the time and without watching the gauge; everything feels fine even when it does occur. This might be a fun one to track down and yes, I did check all of the lines as much as possible. I even see a solid 22 inHG vacuum when warmed.

The second picture, where boost climbs up to 13.2psi is exactly this behavior. You don't feel the boost raising.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by sdwilly

Completely OT (Like half this thread), but every time I hear about someone's buddy or friend I always think of this.

Dark Helmet: Before you die there is something you should know about us, Lone Star.
Lone Starr: What?
Dark Helmet: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
Lone Starr: What's that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing! Which is what you are about to become.

I agree it's OT, but if people would stop posting the rediculous and untrue rumors about motors blowing, it wouldn't be necessary to post rebuttals like that. You can't have people posting lies in threads that can be found during searches (if anyone searched LOL). It's bad for the entire tuning community.

Blown motor claims are the most serious someone could post. Jason should demand people back those claims up or delete the posts.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

I agree it's OT, but if people would stop posting the rediculous and untrue rumors about motors blowing, it wouldn't be necessary to post rebuttals like that. You can't have people posting lies in threads that can be found during searches (if anyone searched LOL). It's bad for the entire tuning community.

Blown motor claims are the most serious someone could post. Jason should demand people back those claims up or delete the posts.

There was a case of a blown motor with a customers car here in chicago but it was not the fault of tuners, something enternally didnt work and the engine melted down. That person got a new car.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Here is a better description:

Waitasec Eugen....

You said that you did 30-40 tests and captured the problem on a datalog. Let's talk about that first. Then we can get to Scalbert's beta testing results (which I'm sure he can contribute too as well). He can speak for himself. Oh wait... he did here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=291

Back to the question: What was so disconcerting with what YOU experienced with the beta map? That you say was illustrated in the datalog that you worked very hard to capture.

-shiv

[e92law]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Please stay on topic guys. We're getting there....

Just want to show that this isn't the end of the world. Let Shiv work through the data, that is what he does for a living. The rest of us are just forming opinions while at our real jobs.

[OpenFlash]

Pls stay on subject guys. We're finally getting somewhere.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Waitasec Eugen....

You said that you did 30-40 tests and captured the problem on a datalog. Let's talk about that first. Then we can get to Scalbert's results (which I'm sure he can contribute too as well). He can speak for himself. Oh wait... he did here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=291

Back to the question: What was so disconcerting with what YOU experienced? That you say was illustrated in the datalog that you worked very hard to capture.

-shiv

I saw the boost climbing on the gauge, decoupled from the constant throttle position, minimum load and hoped it will stop soon. It did @ 13.2 psi. I never saw something like this before.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I saw the boost climbing on the gauge, decoupled from the constant throttle position, minimum load and hoped it will stop soon. It did @ 13.2 psi. I never saw it like this before.

Okay good.... i'm going to start a new thead now. Hang tight.

shiv

[sdwilly]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I saw the boost climbing on the gauge, decoupled from the constant throttle position, minimum load and hoped it will stop soon. It did @ 13.2 psi. I never saw something like this before.

I know it's not this, but it reminds me of boost creep I used to get on my old Eclipse (years ago) before I went to a HKS Wastegate.

[atlpitbull]

Originally Posted by GreekMaverick

Actualy, he went all out on the EVO's .......It seems like most of You Evo Owners Forget that


Dont forget that vishnu was the first company to bring the evo into the spotlight in the US with TONS of magazine press and their win of one lap, plus their work with car and driver.

Shiv was the first one to figure out the 9 ecu and the Mivec tuning. He then posted all his findings on this forum for other tuners to better understand the workings of the new ecu. Even now a vishnu flash and tbe (300 whp on mustang dyno) makes more than most other tuner's packages that include way more parts.

Unlinke some other shops, vishnu's philosophy doesnt revolve arround making time attack cars and other things, but simply engine management, and in that department they do very well especially on brand new platforms.

An xede is not that big of a deal anymore, but back when the evo was new, there was no free flashing software, and only 2 or 3 shops that understood the evo at all. You cant expect them to attempt to compete with a FREE flashing program? they are a business after all.

They moved to the 335, as no one in the market including all the big names i.e dinan, active auto werke and turner had any ability to tune the 335s. They were the first and are still the best engine management solution for that platform, and guess what, once that platform is fully developed, they will proly move to another challenge.

Not every car company is the same, and vishnu is into the EM stuff and thats why they move to different platforms faster than other companies.

You got to kidding me !!!! It has been noted that Vishnu started with Mazda and left them high and dry to move to Subies. Left them high and dry and moved to Evo's, now they are left out so he can move to the 335...Can you read the writing on the wall !!!! I am not an AA customer, but they started with the Bimmer and guess what ? They are still with the Bimmers, that in it's self should say something. If you ever find the time, please read what Mazda, Subie and Evo world have to say about their paper weight(vishnu). What might look good now, might not be so good in the future. Oh hell, what do I know just may .02cents

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by atlpitbull

You got to kidding me !!!! It has been noted that Vishnu started with Mazda and left them high and dry to move to Subies. Left them high and dry and moved to Evo's, now they are left out so he can move to the 335...Can you read the writing on the wall !!!! I am not an AA customer, but they started with the Bimmer and guess what ? They are still with the Bimmers, that in it's self should say something. If you ever find the time, please read what Mazda, Subie and Evo world have to say about their paper weight(vishnu). What might look good now, might not be so good in the future. Oh hell, what do I know just may .02cents

Ahem... we still tune and supply parts for Evos, Subarus and BMWs. And we still supply engine control components (sold through other companies) for Miatas. Complaints about us "leaving" have to do with us not being active on those internet forums anymore. Guess why?

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Ahem... we still tune and supply parts for Evos, Subarus and BMWs. And we still supply engine control components (sold through other companies) for Miatas. Complaints about us "leaving" have to do with us not being active on those internet forums anymore. Guess why?

lol, could it be due to 18 page threads like this one?

[remydlc]

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

lol, could it be due to 18 page threads like this one?

At this point, Shiv needs to hire a full time e90post support staff so he can spend time actually concentrating on his products and not sifting through pages upon pages of OT banter.