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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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2009 3 Series are way too expensive!!
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09-10-2008, 08:23 AM | #45 | |
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You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT do a direct currency conversion and compare the prices of a car in two different markets. Each market is completely different. Take Australia. A 325i costs around $75,000AUD. Converted to USD it is about $60,000USD. OMG LOOK AT HOW MUCH THEY HAVE TO PAY!!111!!!! Right? Just wait a minute though, the AVERAGE per person income in Australia is $60,000AUD or about $1133AUD per week. Convert that to USD and it is something like $48,318USD. The average HOUSEHOLD (Whole family put together) income in the US was around $44,000. The 325i was the cheapest BMW here in the US. In Australia they have 3 different 3 series models below it that cost less money. Lets use Germany as another example. I can't read German worth a damn, but I was able to find the Konfigurator. A 2009 325i (No where else seems to have a 328, so I picked the next closest thing) in Platinum Bronze came out to right around $40,000EU with options. Well my MSRP was $39,850ish on my 2008 328i. But when you try the failed direct currency conversion tactic, that $40,000EU car is now $56,552USD! You cannot use direct currency conversions because it doesn't show the value of that money in the other country. The exchange rate could be shit and cause the car to be much much more in USD. Lets make up a fake country called BMWLAND. In BMWLAND a 328i costs, lets say, $60,000BMWD. The exchange rate to USD is 1 BMWD = 2 USD. So that car would cost $120,000USD!!! Holy shit do we have it good! But wait. I think I just found something... The Average salary in BMWLAND is $65,000BMWD. Wait, converted to USD that means they make $130,000USD a year! OMG THEY ARE RICH! See why direct currency conversion doesn't work? Oh and another reason it is OK for us to complain about the US pricing. We don't live in those other countries, we live here.
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09-10-2008, 08:37 AM | #46 | |
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09-10-2008, 08:39 AM | #47 |
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The price for a new E90 335i in Brazil is $170,000 USD
The price for a new E92 M3 in Brazil is $235,000 USD Not to mention that they have to pay taxes each year based on the value of the car. Stop bitching about the prices of BMWs in the US. Go buy a Honda, a Toyota or a Kia instead. Edit: Regarding the comment from Seminole above, the salaries in Brazil are on par with the rest of the 3rd world countries. So when you factor how much money people make and compare it to how much it costs to buy a car, then the difference will be EVEN BIGGER. Last edited by ATSR; 09-10-2008 at 09:27 AM.. |
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09-10-2008, 09:21 AM | #48 |
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Go price an Audi for the same sticker shock.
Bottom line is that the USA economy and the purchasing power of the US consumer has been in a tailspin. We are about 10 trillion in debt (more than double what it was when Bush got elected on a platform of fiscal responsibility!?), and it's getting worse by about 2 billion a day, and that does not even include the FMae bailouts. So each citizen owes more than 32k. Each of my kids is starting out with that much national debt that they are going to have to pay (via taxes) the interest on. We have been living on borrowed $, and the value of our currency reflects that. F#%ing politicians try and make themselves look good by borrowing up the a#$. I am so sick of the "I will lower your taxes more than the other guy" mantra. And "Drill baby drill". What shortsighted crap. No farmer would treat their land this way, nor an owner of a family business. My apologies for the rant.
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09-10-2008, 09:32 AM | #49 | |
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09-10-2008, 09:35 AM | #50 | |
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09-10-2008, 10:19 AM | #51 | |
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Mate - before you go ahead and say that about home (yes I'm from Down Under as you yanks would say) you have to realize that our TAXATION is considerably HIGHER than yours. For that "average" 60K (which I don't know where you're getting that from, last I heard it was mid 50's) that person would be paying approximately 10%-20% MORE in taxes. However we have generous publicly funded health coverage and we don't have a guy with a cardboard sign asking for change at every intersection like I encounter here on a daily basis. PLUS living expenses are considerably more - example, a 500ml coke will cost you $3, a pack of cigarettes will cost you over $11, a case of beer will cost you $40, a bottle of Vodka $50, a nice dinner out per person is easily over $150 - Property prices too are at Southern California levels as well. Petrol (GAS as you say here) was $1.60 a LITRE when I was home last (approximately 4 litres to a gallon – that’s $6.40 a GALLON). A current base model 335i will put you back around $112,000 AUS (which last month would have been around $100K US due to the near parity of the US $ and Aus $) yet the same car here would be approx $40,000 US (on the assumption of no options - add those and it gets a whole lot WORSE). That’s a markup of over 100%. An M3 will put you back $170,000. A mate just recently purchased an Audi RS4 at a "bargain" price of $170,000 - the very same car here is $66,000. This price comparison explains the 1 series - a 135i will cost $73,000 - as you can now see, the 1 series makes sense when the comparable 335i is now $35,000 MORE. Bottom line - the US gets a price advantage due to VOLUME sold here. However I feel that gradually market share will drop as other countries with more wealth will want BMW's product - hence keeping prices low for their American customers may not be BMW's prime concern in 5 years time. As for anybody believing the "resurgent" US dollar is here to stay - I'd suggest you go "invest" that money on a table in Vegas rather than speculate on US currency - your odds of a good return are a lot higher!! The US is in for some serious pain that will require some extreme fiscal policy restraint in order to get it's numbers back in check. Bill Clinton fixed it last time - it can be done, just takes a little know how that’s all. To finalize my point - CURRENT US owners of 335i's should be ecstatic over this increase - BMW just made your car worth more in resale. USA drivers in GENERAL should be ecstatic over the prices they get!! And to the bloke that said "if you don't like where you live then move to the US to get a cheaper car" - have you seriously even LOOKED at what it takes to immigrate to the US???!! It's not quite that simple. Then again - good luck to anybody that wants to call Australia home - we make the US look almost easy in comparison....LOL |
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09-10-2008, 10:22 AM | #52 | |
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I think that i came in USA for buy a 335...the equivalent price in Italy is $ 84.600,00 about!! *320D E90 - Turbo Engine Diesel 2000 cc. - Horsepower 177CV (182 PSI) - Torque Power 350NM - Vmax 145mph - ecc. ecc.. |
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09-10-2008, 10:28 AM | #53 | |
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Depending on the definition of "quick" of course... but isn't a 328i a low-6s (0-60) car, and a 330i is a mid-to-high 5s car? |
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09-10-2008, 10:32 AM | #54 |
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I understand that the USD has been getting beat up the past year (though lately the dollar has been rallying). However, BMW is a huge company. One would think that such a large company would have FX dollar hedges, to hedge their currency exposure for the different markets they sell their products. My point is that "weak US dollar" is overplayed. It may account for a small percentage of BMW's financial hit, but the slowing economy and writedowns on the dropping residuals are just as valid if not moreso.
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09-10-2008, 10:40 AM | #55 |
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After all said and done, I only paid 20% more on my 2009 3-series than an american pays for his 2009 3-series. But this is because I have avoided some taxes with some (legal) trickery, and got a $6500 discount from a German dealer (which they are willing to give anyway, its about the standard discount in Germany).
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09-10-2008, 10:45 AM | #56 | |
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09-10-2008, 10:47 AM | #57 | |||||
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You nailed part of it. What are the taxation on vehicle imports in Australia. Taxes on a new car purchase? Etc. The thing I keep trying to get across why direct currency conversions don't work is each country is different. Taxes on cars, imports, income everything is different. It is extremely naive to just take the price of the car and then use the exchange rate to compare it to any other country.
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09-10-2008, 10:59 AM | #58 | |
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09-10-2008, 11:16 AM | #59 | |
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So true!
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09-10-2008, 11:23 AM | #60 |
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i agree w/ stressdoc's post concerning the prevailing economic questions...the recent liquidity crunch at lehman is no doubt another symptom
now, to my question. the OP was using MSRP's for his comparison. i also have an 06 e90 330i, and i believe the MSRP was about 44k w/ the options it had. However, I paid close to the invoice price. my question is if MSRP for a similar 335 is now 50k, what is the equivalent 'invoice' price (w/o accounting for dealer holdback and other incentives)?
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09-10-2008, 11:38 AM | #61 |
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No, wrong. HD Radio is included as a no cost option when you select Nav. Check the BMW BYO.
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09-10-2008, 11:56 AM | #62 |
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outta the price difference it does make a difference i think....thats modding money rite there down the drain from just options!!!!
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09-10-2008, 11:56 AM | #63 |
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Man, I really hate when all of the foreigners (no offense) start comparing their countries price (Euro, Pound, etc), and then use the current exchange rate as their tool.
I'll say this one last time: YOU CANNOT MAKE COMPARISONS ON MARKETS BASED ON THE EXCHANGE RATE!!!!!! Pricing is based on what the local economy is... Here's an example: DVD in the USA costs around $20.00 (14 Euros in exchange rate) DVD in the EU cost around 20 Euros ($28 in exchange rate) Average income for a Network Engineer in the US is $70,000 (49700 Euros) Average income for a Network Engineer in Germany 70,000 Euros ($98,000) You guys get it yet?!?!?!? EDIT: Sorry seminole, I didn't see your post.
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09-10-2008, 11:59 AM | #64 | |
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09-10-2008, 12:04 PM | #65 |
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09-10-2008, 12:07 PM | #66 | |
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Great post mate.....stick around, we need more posts as clear as this!
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