Eugene no longer with Procede??

Tuned335i · 11-30-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JephryB

Holy Bloody Hell... Think for yourselves people, it's a computer not a religion.

Believe in the product you have experience with; Vishnu has been responsive and good the only 2 times i've ask for a) support (loose wire, fixed it before they even responded a few hours later) and the pending V2 order from early Sept ("i'll be more than a month"); IMHO not what I wanted to hear, but they were quite responsive in both cases.

That and I love my V1.47. The only limp modes (twice) can definatly be traced back to a single gas station (major brand, but ONLY this station) near my house- only times I went there and happened both times, months apart, it's the gas..

So far faith in the product and Shiv..

Yup, same experience here and I'm going to post about it because people need to know there are two sides to every story, and then there's the truth...

It's probably no surprise to anyone that I have had no issues with Vishnu support. Every email and PM has been answered promptly, and most recently, within 10 minutes of me PM'ing Dustin about getting a longer ground wire for experimentation. Yeah it took a while to get V2, but I have a LIFE that is busy and I had no problem waiting. I have V2 installed and running perfectly.

I realize people have had the exact opposite experience and I respect that. But those same people should respect that the majority have had great experience with Vishnu.

Back to the original topic...sort of...I can't believe this thread hasn't died yet. Who cares if Eugen decided to abandon his PROcede? I admire him for being a beta tester for so long, but he decieded to go a different direction. People have the right to do what they want and Eugen is a very high maintentance "power user" who's expectations weren't being met by Vishnu.

That's all people. There's no conspiracy.

Former_Boosted_IS · 11-30-2007, 05:23 AM

I feel I have to jump in here. I beta tested for a very well known tuner for 1 year before a kit was released on my Lexus IS300 I had. For the record, beta testing is NOT for everyone. Let me tell you what my car went through.

My car went to the shop for 8 weeks for the kit to be installed. 8 weeks! I started on HKS FCON ecu, Garrett turbo, Spearco FMIC, 550 cc injectors, fpr, fuel pump, MSD ignition, etc. Unfortunately the IS300 ecu learns and piggybacking that car is almost impossible. The car jerked and shook violently under partial throttle. The car would try to return the A/F to stock levels (14.7:1) and when it couldn't it would start toying with timing. Ultimately it started to misfire, then consecutive misfires, then limp mode and the car running NASTY rich. Unlike this car, I could not turn the car on and off to reset the LIMP. I had to unhook the battery cable for about 1 minute. So, I was unhooking the battery cable every other day in a business suit! Sometimes it was pouring rain and I am opening my hood unhooking cables. Talk about embarrassing. This went on for nearly 4 months!

So back the car goes to the shop, keep in mind it is 6 hours away. At this point we go over to full standalone, 720 cc injectors, Dual feed large fuel rail, lower compression, consider different boost controller, plugs, etc. This time my car is gone for about 7 weeks. Well, once we went over to Motec, the car ran quite well.

Long story short, is I had to buy a second car and my car was gone for about 4 months in the first 6 months after I bought it. Was it a headache? Yes. Was I a beta tester? Yes. Should I have expected there to be problems? YES! If you guys want to test something you must understand what you are getting into. It is not a full release for a reason.

tek818 · 11-30-2007, 05:26 AM

</thread>

Panoz · 11-30-2007, 06:41 AM

As this thread looks like is going to die soon , I'd like to write down some conclusions I made about this whole incident.

Firstly (and inorder not to get missunderstood) I need to comment that I have huge appreciation to Eugen that helped me several times in the past in regards to tech-issues. His decision to stop dealing with Procede testing is his right and its definately respected. But this a desicion he made for himself and not for the rest of us.

It suprises me seeing so many people changing their minds so easy. In all of a sudden the "Super-Hyper-perfect" Procede tune, becomes the flop of the year...! The "Master-Technology-Guru" Shiv (I recall someone called him God once or twice) suddenly became "terrorist" by exploding engines for fun and traitor of his own products and clients (abandoning evo,subi and eventualy 335-communities).

A coin has always 2 sides.

The one side of the coin is us. The 335 community (including myself)
Firstly I need to remind you all the mess that has been caused back on August & September from Vishnu-fans (yes we used to love the Vishnu team those days) about V2. I remember the impatient Procede owners bashing on Shiv for delaying the V2 release. It seems that none was interested on reliability but just the power. I also remember the huge threads about Shiv not answering.
Well guys, when you push so much to early release products its expected that bugs will come along as well. I CANT SEE WHY there are so many people complaining now. Its just not serious...its actualy ridiculous. No one deserves to complain here.

I also realize that "we" forget things pretty easy. People on this forum talks now about JB & Terry, forgeting everything that Terry did in past in this forum. The non-ethical actions to promote his product and the multiple "anti-Procede" user accounts etc (Sorry Terry, no harsh feelings on you, just talking facts.Correct me if i'm wrong). Now Terry is the forthcomming hero.

The other side of the coin is Vishnu...
Its obvious that there is a lack of "focus" to these guys. Seeing Vishnu dealing with mini-formulas , Lambos, Porsches while his "on-going 335i project" has several issues (including deliveries), makes me think that these guys cannot handle the "business-side" of the things appropriately.
The customer service (to my experience & through other people's experience) is dramatic. The fact everyone is away on vacation/holiday while there are problems out there, is not the way that a serious company would work. There could be someone left behind to cover the consumers.
Even the "simple" e-mails takes ages to be replied (if ever).
Sometimes time I feel like he's fooling us all...as we are waiting him to finish his writte-ups in order to make a new announcement. I remember that in order to finish his V2 initial announcement about specs and ordering , he needed more than 5 days. I could have a history book written in 5 days myself.

Vote for Vishnu
BUT in the end I dare to say that I trust Procede & Shiv far more than any other tuner around. This is because ,despite all the issues that came through Shiv always had an answer for us soon or later. I feel that Shiv has proven so far ,through the V1 development, that really cares about the reliabilty of his product and the affect to the car's longlivity.
Back in the days of V1 everyone was begging for MORE POWER as they didnt care about the longelivity!!! Only Eugen insisted for reliability and I remember that Shiv kept quite a distance from these iquiries. This actually conviced me to become a procede user.
Most importantly the product is thoroughly tested as there are approximately 700-800 owners using Procede right now which is more than any other tune available. This makes easier to track & resolve problems.

I'm frustrated sometimes with Vishnu customer support but I trust them.
Whether I'm right or wrong , only time can tell (or Shiv)

Thats my 12 cents (sorry the pretty long message)

Ruff Rider · 11-30-2007, 07:00 AM

Wow. That's all I have to say. Perfect write up. Thanks Panoz.

garyhgaryh · 11-30-2007, 07:14 AM

Nicely written.

e90AW335i · 11-30-2007, 10:54 AM

Very Nice....

Kbueno · 11-30-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panoz

The customer support (to my experience & through other people's experience) is dramatic. The fact everyone is away on vacation/holiday while there are problems out there, is not the way that a serious company would work. There could be someone left behind to cover the consumers.
Even the "simple" e-mails takes ages to be replied (if ever).

I'm frustrated sometimes with Vishnu customer support but I trust them.
Whether I'm right or wrong , only time can tell (or Shiv)

Thats my 12 cents (sorry the pretty long message)

I'm not sure why you are commenting on their customer service as this thread was about Eugen leaving PROcede. However, as far as their support: Not trying to defend Shiv here, but I can comment on my own experience with their customer service. The one and only time I had an issue with the V2 installation, I had support within a few hours. My e-mail to the support was responded to and Dustin was on the phone with me in a very timely manner. Also, the only time I knew that they were away on holiday was Thanksgiving?? You want them on the phone on Thanksgiving?? They have a life like us you know.

Terry335 · 11-30-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panoz

I also realize that "we" forget things pretty easy. People on this forum talks now about JB & Terry, forgeting everything that Terry did in past in this forum. The non-ethical actions to promote his product and the multiple "anti-Procede" user accounts etc (Sorry Terry, no harsh feelings on you, just talking facts.Correct me if i'm wrong). Now Terry is the forthcomming hero.

This thread really has nothing to do with me so I'm not sure why my name got dragged in, but I never made accounts to "bash" anything, or ever attempted to hide my identity when I made them. At that time I was just pissed at the moderators and was making new accounts because I could, to talk to friends, etc. There is a small group of people on here who I would PM often when I made a new account and they can vouch for that. I think you guys just assumed anyone who came on that disliked Vishnu was me, which wasn't the case. Believe it or not there are a lot of people out there from other forums over the years that have formed a negative opinion about them before I even knew they existed.

e90AW335i · 11-30-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry335

This thread really has nothing to do with me so I'm not sure why my name got dragged in

+1

NYBMW335 · 11-30-2007, 12:59 PM

WOW this thread is like one of those really bad reality shows that give on MTV. Lets all do a group HUG and leave it alone. This is going no where. There will always be the Procede followers and the JB followers, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

As a matter of fact i think eugen and shiv got shoved into this mess. I think that these things should be worked out via-phone or e-mail. There is a reason why shiv choose eugen as a beta tester, and i am sure he regrets it now.

By the way i am not a Procede customer nor a JB customer. this is simply my opinion.

cn555ic · 11-30-2007, 01:05 PM

What this thread basically in the beginning of this saga was saying that Eugene a respectable and knowledgeable member has decided to leave the Procede platform and i was curious to why he is abandoning the Procede...I for one have learned alot from his posts and threads...Yes it got out of hand with all those people bashing the Procede, but thats not what is thread what about...I found confidence with the Procede because Eugene as a customer also has proven to me in the past that the Procede is a awesome tune, then out of no where he jumps ship?? That was the problem

kaji335i · 11-30-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

What this thread basically in the beginning of this saga was saying that Eugene a respectable and knowledgeable member has decided to leave the Procede platform and i was curious to why he is abandoning the Procede...I for one have learned alot from his posts and threads...Yes it got out of hand with all those people bashing the Procede, but thats not what is thread what about...I found confidence with the Procede because Eugene as a customer also has proven to me in the past that the Procede is a awesome tune, then out of no where he jumps ship?? That was the problem

While Eugene is a great enthusiest and forum contributor, I never really felt he was that knowlegeable about engine tuning or turbo applications. Yes he has helped many people with Procede questions, but they have been largely install type questions that had nothing to do with actual tuning methodology. He has his own criteria on what he feels is a "safe tune" and hes entitled to it.

Putting your faith in a product based on someones opinion (who isnt well versed in the subject) is questionable if you ask me.

Boostin335 · 11-30-2007, 07:07 PM

dang almost 15k viewsssss

LambOfGod · 11-30-2007, 07:24 PM

I want my freaking V2 NOW! What is taking so long?

picus · 11-30-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soni

Eugen has been answered a lot of questions for those had problem with the Procede...now that he left us, I am seeing future issues will take much longer to answer by Vinshu team

AA dude.

2007_E93 · 12-01-2007, 04:15 AM

FINALLY,...THE END...

Moderators,...close this thread please.

M3EST · 12-01-2007, 04:16 AM

+2

Robert · 12-01-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spool

That's business, no. 1 goal is to make money, lots of it. when the resources are gone, you move on to another field, kinda like a swarm of locusts.

Depends on what type of company you are trying to build. It's one way to make money but certainly not the best way.

G33 · 12-01-2007, 07:30 PM

.... all these threads about vishnu and service and reliabillity has definitely confirmed that i wont be getting procede regardless of claimed power outputs (and unsmooth torque/power curves??)

c0nstant · 12-01-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry335

This thread really has nothing to do with me so I'm not sure why my name got dragged in, but I never made accounts to "bash" anything, or ever attempted to hide my identity when I made them. At that time I was just pissed at the moderators and was making new accounts because I could, to talk to friends, etc. There is a small group of people on here who I would PM often when I made a new account and they can vouch for that. I think you guys just assumed anyone who came on that disliked Vishnu was me, which wasn't the case. Believe it or not there are a lot of people out there from other forums over the years that have formed a negative opinion about them before I even knew they existed.

well said, terry

XLR8MF · 12-01-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaji335i

While Eugene is a great enthusiest and forum contributor, I never really felt he was that knowlegeable about engine tuning or turbo applications. Yes he has helped many people with Procede questions, but they have been largely install type questions that had nothing to do with actual tuning methodology. He has his own criteria on what he feels is a "safe tune" and hes entitled to it.

Putting your faith in a product based on someones opinion (who isnt well versed in the subject) is questionable if you ask me.

CRAZY TALK!

11-30-2007, 05:23 AM	#442
Former_Boosted_IS Major General 356 Rep 5,175 Posts Drives: 4 Wheels Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth! iTrader: (15)	I feel I have to jump in here. I beta tested for a very well known tuner for 1 year before a kit was released on my Lexus IS300 I had. For the record, beta testing is NOT for everyone. Let me tell you what my car went through. My car went to the shop for 8 weeks for the kit to be installed. 8 weeks! I started on HKS FCON ecu, Garrett turbo, Spearco FMIC, 550 cc injectors, fpr, fuel pump, MSD ignition, etc. Unfortunately the IS300 ecu learns and piggybacking that car is almost impossible. The car jerked and shook violently under partial throttle. The car would try to return the A/F to stock levels (14.7:1) and when it couldn't it would start toying with timing. Ultimately it started to misfire, then consecutive misfires, then limp mode and the car running NASTY rich. Unlike this car, I could not turn the car on and off to reset the LIMP. I had to unhook the battery cable for about 1 minute. So, I was unhooking the battery cable every other day in a business suit! Sometimes it was pouring rain and I am opening my hood unhooking cables. Talk about embarrassing. This went on for nearly 4 months! So back the car goes to the shop, keep in mind it is 6 hours away. At this point we go over to full standalone, 720 cc injectors, Dual feed large fuel rail, lower compression, consider different boost controller, plugs, etc. This time my car is gone for about 7 weeks. Well, once we went over to Motec, the car ran quite well. Long story short, is I had to buy a second car and my car was gone for about 4 months in the first 6 months after I bought it. Was it a headache? Yes. Was I a beta tester? Yes. Should I have expected there to be problems? YES! If you guys want to test something you must understand what you are getting into. It is not a full release for a reason.
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11-30-2007, 05:26 AM	#443
tek818 Lieutenant Colonel 155 Rep 1,953 Posts Drives: 2020 X3M Competition Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2018 M3 ZCP [9.50]	</thread>
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11-30-2007, 06:41 AM	#444
Panoz Lieutenant Colonel 94 Rep 1,575 Posts Drives: E92 Space Grey 335i ,Aero Kit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	As this thread looks like is going to die soon , I'd like to write down some conclusions I made about this whole incident. Firstly (and inorder not to get missunderstood) I need to comment that I have huge appreciation to Eugen that helped me several times in the past in regards to tech-issues. His decision to stop dealing with Procede testing is his right and its definately respected. But this a desicion he made for himself and not for the rest of us. It suprises me seeing so many people changing their minds so easy. In all of a sudden the "Super-Hyper-perfect" Procede tune, becomes the flop of the year...! The "Master-Technology-Guru" Shiv (I recall someone called him God once or twice) suddenly became "terrorist" by exploding engines for fun and traitor of his own products and clients (abandoning evo,subi and eventualy 335-communities). A coin has always 2 sides. The one side of the coin is us. The 335 community (including myself) Firstly I need to remind you all the mess that has been caused back on August & September from Vishnu-fans (yes we used to love the Vishnu team those days) about V2. I remember the impatient Procede owners bashing on Shiv for delaying the V2 release. It seems that none was interested on reliability but just the power. I also remember the huge threads about Shiv not answering. Well guys, when you push so much to early release products its expected that bugs will come along as well. I CANT SEE WHY there are so many people complaining now. Its just not serious...its actualy ridiculous. No one deserves to complain here. I also realize that "we" forget things pretty easy. People on this forum talks now about JB & Terry, forgeting everything that Terry did in past in this forum. The non-ethical actions to promote his product and the multiple "anti-Procede" user accounts etc (Sorry Terry, no harsh feelings on you, just talking facts.Correct me if i'm wrong). Now Terry is the forthcomming hero. The other side of the coin is Vishnu... Its obvious that there is a lack of "focus" to these guys. Seeing Vishnu dealing with mini-formulas , Lambos, Porsches while his "on-going 335i project" has several issues (including deliveries), makes me think that these guys cannot handle the "business-side" of the things appropriately. The customer service (to my experience & through other people's experience) is dramatic. The fact everyone is away on vacation/holiday while there are problems out there, is not the way that a serious company would work. There could be someone left behind to cover the consumers. Even the "simple" e-mails takes ages to be replied (if ever). Sometimes time I feel like he's fooling us all...as we are waiting him to finish his writte-ups in order to make a new announcement. I remember that in order to finish his V2 initial announcement about specs and ordering , he needed more than 5 days. I could have a history book written in 5 days myself. Vote for Vishnu BUT in the end I dare to say that I trust Procede & Shiv far more than any other tuner around. This is because ,despite all the issues that came through Shiv always had an answer for us soon or later. I feel that Shiv has proven so far ,through the V1 development, that really cares about the reliabilty of his product and the affect to the car's longlivity. Back in the days of V1 everyone was begging for MORE POWER as they didnt care about the longelivity!!! Only Eugen insisted for reliability and I remember that Shiv kept quite a distance from these iquiries. This actually conviced me to become a procede user. Most importantly the product is thoroughly tested as there are approximately 700-800 owners using Procede right now which is more than any other tune available. This makes easier to track & resolve problems. I'm frustrated sometimes with Vishnu customer support but I trust them. Whether I'm right or wrong , only time can tell (or Shiv) Thats my 12 cents (sorry the pretty long message) Last edited by Panoz; 11-30-2007 at 01:29 PM..
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11-30-2007, 07:00 AM	#445
Ruff Rider "posting from my recliner" 103 Rep 7,241 Posts Drives: twin turbo Prius Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Where the air is thin iTrader: (0)	Wow. That's all I have to say. Perfect write up. Thanks Panoz. __________________ Ping Golf Club demo tech
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11-30-2007, 07:14 AM	#446
garyhgaryh Major 82 Rep 1,232 Posts Drives: Supercharged e30 M3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: santa cruz iTrader: (4)	Nicely written.
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11-30-2007, 10:54 AM	#447
e90AW335i Major General 169 Rep 6,608 Posts Drives: e90 335i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ...... iTrader: (4)	Very Nice....
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11-30-2007, 12:59 PM	#451
NYBMW335 Lieutenant 14 Rep 420 Posts Drives: BMW 335i jet black/black Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NYC iTrader: (1)	WOW this thread is like one of those really bad reality shows that give on MTV. Lets all do a group HUG and leave it alone. This is going no where. There will always be the Procede followers and the JB followers, but that has nothing to do with this thread. As a matter of fact i think eugen and shiv got shoved into this mess. I think that these things should be worked out via-phone or e-mail. There is a reason why shiv choose eugen as a beta tester, and i am sure he regrets it now. By the way i am not a Procede customer nor a JB customer. this is simply my opinion.
	Appreciate 0

11-30-2007, 01:05 PM	#452
cn555ic 525 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	What this thread basically in the beginning of this saga was saying that Eugene a respectable and knowledgeable member has decided to leave the Procede platform and i was curious to why he is abandoning the Procede...I for one have learned alot from his posts and threads...Yes it got out of hand with all those people bashing the Procede, but thats not what is thread what about...I found confidence with the Procede because Eugene as a customer also has proven to me in the past that the Procede is a awesome tune, then out of no where he jumps ship?? That was the problem
	Appreciate 0

11-30-2007, 07:07 PM	#454
Boostin335 Lieutenant Colonel 800 Rep 1,814 Posts Drives: F92 M8, G82 M4, C8, MKIV Supra Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North/Central NJ iTrader: (3)	dang almost 15k viewsssss
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11-30-2007, 07:24 PM	#455
LambOfGod Lieutenant 16 Rep 571 Posts Drives: 335 Red Sedan Join Date: May 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	I want my freaking V2 NOW! What is taking so long?
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12-01-2007, 04:15 AM	#457
2007_E93 Captain 23 Rep 604 Posts Drives: ? Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ? iTrader: (0)	FINALLY,...THE END... Moderators,...close this thread please.
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12-01-2007, 04:16 AM	#458
M3EST Rear wheel drive fanatic 59 Rep 604 Posts Drives: M3 E30-1M-M4 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Greece & Germany iTrader: (1) Garage List 1987 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 BMW 1M [10.00]	+2
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12-01-2007, 07:30 PM	#460
G33 Colonel 117 Rep 2,082 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London iTrader: (0)	.... all these threads about vishnu and service and reliabillity has definitely confirmed that i wont be getting procede regardless of claimed power outputs (and unsmooth torque/power curves??)
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