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      09-08-2016, 09:08 AM   #45
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Our V70 came with General Gmax AS03 tires and the road noise was unbearable. Both Tire Rack and Consumer Reports scored that tire poorly for noise. I swapped them out for GT tires that were more appropriate for a family wagon.

I'll likely use the BFG comp 2 AS on the E90.
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      09-08-2016, 09:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
how can a BMW perform well on a/s....well, many do not care so I guess it's not our job to lecture anyone...
It's because most everyone w/ a BMW drives in a straight line ~99% of the time. Since that's the case, what's the point of having summer tires which you can only benefit from ~5 seconds at a time during on-ramp maneuvers. Not to mention, only lasting half as long as an A/S.

If we all had the luxury of driving through the canyons of Malibu everyday, etc. I'm sure that would be a different story.
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      09-08-2016, 09:57 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by vautrain View Post
I assume you're talking about the DWS (as stated) and not the DWS 06 revision? My understanding is that Conti has addressed some of those issues in the DWS 06.

Regarding your BFGoodrich balance issue, I wonder how common it is to have tires that simply fail to balance, despite all best efforts. I assume it was all four tires? Hard to dismiss if that was the case (unless perhaps just a bad batch). Did TireRack acknowledge or address the issue, aside from doing the exchange?
DWS 06 (the new one) feels the same.

I had DWS 06 for about a week. Steering response was so horrible I returned them. Losing hundred $ was worth it, just to get rid of them.
I'm set to get the Continentals tomorrow for the wife's E90. Are they really that bad because I was torn between that tire and the AS3? The wife doesn't do any spirited driving so I'm curious if it would feel worse than the OEM run flats
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      09-08-2016, 10:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
It's because most everyone w/ a BMW drives in a straight line ~99% of the time. Since that's the case, what's the point of having summer tires which you can only benefit from ~5 seconds at a time during on-ramp maneuvers. Not to mention, only lasting half as long as an A/S.

If we all had the luxury of driving through the canyons of Malibu everyday, etc. I'm sure that would be a different story.
This is why I respect the Subaru WRX (not STi but base through limited). It comes with summer tires only, and a clutch, no need to explain/disclaim, have a 3rd check box, THIS CAR COMES WITH SUMMER TIRES, AND IT HAS A CLUTCH, ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH, ARE YOU SURE IT'S FOR YOU? If it's not for you, then you buy a Corolla.

I get it, it's truly the reason why there are just as many E9x's without ZSP. How my car reached over 50k on the original RE050A's is anybody's guess. The snows took about 7k, so 43k total.

I always thought it funny to squeeze every last bit out of a tire--I did it with my Nissan. I believe it was over 80k on the RS-As which in retrospect was silly.

Anyway, my point is you can have a E9x that has ZSP, and the dealer is willing to mount 4 A/S non-runflats on the vehicle, if that means they can get your $2,600.
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      09-08-2016, 10:51 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
It's because most everyone w/ a BMW drives in a straight line ~99% of the time. Since that's the case, what's the point of having summer tires which you can only benefit from ~5 seconds at a time during on-ramp maneuvers. Not to mention, only lasting half as long as an A/S.

If we all had the luxury of driving through the canyons of Malibu everyday, etc. I'm sure that would be a different story.
A/S are just not good at anything. Summer tires WAY outperform A/S in the wet. Their braking capabilities are also much higher which alone, IMO, is enough of a reason to justify, especially since you already have winters.
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      09-08-2016, 12:01 PM   #50
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Dang this thread as I read it one day before I'm supposed to purchase a set of the DWS 06. I think I'm going to roll the dice and stay with the Continentals. I live in Atlanta and when it snows 2 inches down here the state locks down and these tires are supposed to be decent in the snow. I just hope there is not much drop off from my runflats as I don't believe we drive the car hard enough to notice.
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      09-08-2016, 12:36 PM   #51
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I feel like I need to chime in here with the approaching obnoxious bashing of A/S tires. Yes, I agree that having seperate winter and summer tires is ideal. But some people dont have the space, or maybe don't want to have to buy another set of wheels and tires, and these tires aren't cheap for good ones. A full set of wheels and tires for a performance setup car is approaching $4k.

Some of the modern A/S tires are approaching dedicated summer tires in dry grip, and few summer tires do "waaay" better in the wet. Plus, most drivers only drive on the road and you will be hard pressed to exceed the limits of a "performance" A/S on the road. They perform when it is below 40*, which happens in summer time where I am. So you get a tire that does pretty well on the road during summer, and can get you through a limited amount of snow during winter all while saving money and getting tires that can last 50k miles.

No need to be dicks to people that don't need either extremes of performance and want to save a bit while getting a tire with 80% of the capability.
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      09-08-2016, 03:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike360 View Post
I feel like I need to chime in here with the approaching obnoxious bashing of A/S tires. Yes, I agree that having seperate winter and summer tires is ideal. But some people dont have the space, or maybe don't want to have to buy another set of wheels and tires, and these tires aren't cheap for good ones. A full set of wheels and tires for a performance setup car is approaching $4k.

Some of the modern A/S tires are approaching dedicated summer tires in dry grip, and few summer tires do "waaay" better in the wet. Plus, most drivers only drive on the road and you will be hard pressed to exceed the limits of a "performance" A/S on the road. They perform when it is below 40*, which happens in summer time where I am. So you get a tire that does pretty well on the road during summer, and can get you through a limited amount of snow during winter all while saving money and getting tires that can last 50k miles.

No need to be dicks to people that don't need either extremes of performance and want to save a bit while getting a tire with 80% of the capability.
With some common sense and a little bit of logical thinking, it's easy to see why the quoted comment above is obviously the most correct answer.

Also, for those that doubt braking capability between the two categories, go review some actual benchmarks and test results before making assumptions:

Results from 50-0 mph
Dry Wet
78 112 (PSS)
80 107 (A/S 3+)

Wet/Dry lap, slalom, etc. times are also within 1/10 of a sec. No need for me to regurgitate easily verifiable information though...
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      09-08-2016, 05:43 PM   #53
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      09-08-2016, 06:36 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambe View Post
From tire rack:
This is less scientific than Consumer Reports, but are you making a case for PSSs or a/s? The bar charts seem to revolve around the PSS as they are on the top and bottom
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      09-08-2016, 06:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
With some common sense and a little bit of logical thinking, it's easy to see why the quoted comment above is obviously the most correct answer.

Also, for those that doubt braking capability between the two categories, go review some actual benchmarks and test results before making assumptions:

Results from 50-0 mph
Dry Wet
78 112 (PSS)
80 107 (A/S 3+)

Wet/Dry lap, slalom, etc. times are also within 1/10 of a sec. No need for me to regurgitate easily verifiable information though...
Add light snow as a 3rd category and PSSs will definitely be only for idiots

It's like data can show anything you want it to. It's pretty clear with this thread that a/s is the only answer.
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      09-08-2016, 06:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike360 View Post
A full set of wheels and tires for a performance setup car is approaching $4k.
.
. Gosh, what kind of rims, 3 piece that weigh 15 lbs? I have PSS on 189's and snows on rims, and I don't even think 2 sets of tires with 1 set of rims even cost $1700. I don't have tpms in the snows, maybe that would take the setup to $1940.
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      09-08-2016, 08:17 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambe View Post
A/S are just not good at anything. Summer tires WAY outperform A/S in the wet. Their braking capabilities are also much higher which alone, IMO, is enough of a reason to justify, especially since you already have winters.
After switching to summer tires for the first time this year I couldn't agree with you more. I had DWS 06 and absolutely hated them. Nothing compares to a summer tires handling and steering feel. I'm currently on bridgestone potenza S-04 pole position. It made me fall in love with the car all over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
It's because most everyone w/ a BMW drives in a straight line ~99% of the time. Since that's the case, what's the point of having summer tires which you can only benefit from ~5 seconds at a time during on-ramp maneuvers. Not to mention, only lasting half as long as an A/S.

If we all had the luxury of driving through the canyons of Malibu everyday, etc. I'm sure that would be a different story.
While driving through the canyons of Malibu seems like a hell of a time, I strongly disagree with you. Having strong grip around turns might be one benefit of summer tires, but mind you it's not the only one. Summers transform the way your car feels. From a straight line to minor lane changes it'll give you the feeling that you're in control. Unless you live in a climate where it snows >75% of the year I could see where you're coming from. But where I live we maybe see snow 3-4 months out of the year. During those winter months I'll stick with my winter tires. In my justification All Season tires should be renamed to No season tires.
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      09-08-2016, 08:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike360 View Post
I feel like I need to chime in here with the approaching obnoxious bashing of A/S tires. Yes, I agree that having seperate winter and summer tires is ideal. But some people dont have the space, or maybe don't want to have to buy another set of wheels and tires, and these tires aren't cheap for good ones. A full set of wheels and tires for a performance setup car is approaching $4k.

Some of the modern A/S tires are approaching dedicated summer tires in dry grip, and few summer tires do "waaay" better in the wet. Plus, most drivers only drive on the road and you will be hard pressed to exceed the limits of a "performance" A/S on the road. They perform when it is below 40*, which happens in summer time where I am. So you get a tire that does pretty well on the road during summer, and can get you through a limited amount of snow during winter all while saving money and getting tires that can last 50k miles.

No need to be dicks to people that don't need either extremes of performance and want to save a bit while getting a tire with 80% of the capability.
To each their own, but sir...did you ever consider that you bought a performance car? Given the scenario that you've stated, wouldn't a Honda Pilot be a better option?
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      09-08-2016, 08:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambe View Post
From tire rack:
This is less scientific than Consumer Reports, but are you making a case for PSSs or a/s? The bar charts seem to revolve around the PSS as they are on the top and bottom
It just shows data from all seasons versus summer tires. I'm not making a case for a specific tire.
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      09-08-2016, 11:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike360 View Post
I feel like I need to chime in here with the approaching obnoxious bashing of A/S tires. Yes, I agree that having seperate winter and summer tires is ideal. But some people dont have the space, or maybe don't want to have to buy another set of wheels and tires, and these tires aren't cheap for good ones. A full set of wheels and tires for a performance setup car is approaching $4k.

Some of the modern A/S tires are approaching dedicated summer tires in dry grip, and few summer tires do "waaay" better in the wet. Plus, most drivers only drive on the road and you will be hard pressed to exceed the limits of a "performance" A/S on the road. They perform when it is below 40*, which happens in summer time where I am. So you get a tire that does pretty well on the road during summer, and can get you through a limited amount of snow during winter all while saving money and getting tires that can last 50k miles.

No need to be dicks to people that don't need either extremes of performance and want to save a bit while getting a tire with 80% of the capability.
I guess this is partly my fault since I may have been the one who started the "I prefer two sets of tires" talk.

I totally get that a/s tires make sense for some folks. My fiancee's Subaru Impreza is rolling on a/s tires and we're unlikely to be buying snow tires for it, because the a/s tires are good enough for her and she tolerates how much room my car crap including whatever wheels aren't on my car takes up in the garage.

But for me, I got my stick shift turbo BMW coupe and put a bunch of money and effort into modifying it because I want to really drive it, so the last thing I'm going to do is compromise on a set of a/s tires.
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      09-08-2016, 11:53 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
Add light snow as a 3rd category and PSSs will definitely be only for idiots

It's like data can show anything you want it to. It's pretty clear with this thread that a/s is the only answer.
I've never contended that a/s is the only answer. I'm simply arguing that if you don't need a tire that you will exploit the limits of in summer or go through heavy amounts of snow, than an a/s makes a good compromise.

I do agree it isn't the best comparison in potentially different environments, but it is information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
. Gosh, what kind of rims, 3 piece that weigh 15 lbs? I have PSS on 189's and snows on rims, and I don't even think 2 sets of tires with 1 set of rims even cost $1700. I don't have tpms in the snows, maybe that would take the setup to $1940.
Exaggerating a little, but only somewhat. I am going to go to a two tire setup eventually, but am also aware I may go to f30 brembos at some point as well. So, we got two sets of apex wheels (one of the few 18s that fit over those brakes) - $2400 right here. A set of PSS - $850 for 255s, or an RE11 -$1000. Michelin PA4s- $750 for 225s. Not even touching TPMS sensors right here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreAlex View Post
To each their own, but sir...did you ever consider that you bought a performance car? Given the scenario that you've stated, wouldn't a Honda Pilot be a better option?
Why did you buy a car that can do 155+ mph? Given your scenario, wouldn't a civic be a better option?

No need to act like a 12 year old. It is also a little unfair to compare the a/s that is known to have the least feedback of pretty much any a/s to a summer in that comparison. But if you're happy with what you have, good.

I can already pull significantly stupid speeds on curvy roads with an a/s, even in the rain. I am not tracking or aggressively autocrossing the car at the moment. Rarely get snow in the winter. I have actually driven an e61 with Michelin A/S3s (which aren't meant for snow) in ~5 inches of snow and ice, it had no problems, even when parking on sheet ice. I don't see why I need to spend extra on a second set when I get limited use out of them, and would rather keep the money in my pocket for now.
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      09-09-2016, 12:06 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlasM View Post
I guess this is partly my fault since I may have been the one who started the "I prefer two sets of tires" talk.

I totally get that a/s tires make sense for some folks. My fiancee's Subaru Impreza is rolling on a/s tires and we're unlikely to be buying snow tires for it, because the a/s tires are good enough for her and she tolerates how much room my car crap including whatever wheels aren't on my car takes up in the garage.

But for me, I got my stick shift turbo BMW coupe and put a bunch of money and effort into modifying it because I want to really drive it, so the last thing I'm going to do is compromise on a set of a/s tires.
I know what you mean, and appreciate that you can see the reason behind tire choice. I only have a problem with the militants in the two sets or bust camp who decided to insult people who don't want to go that route, or at least at the immediate moment.
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      09-09-2016, 12:21 PM   #63
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Why did you buy a car that can do 155+ mph? Given your scenario, wouldn't a civic be a better option?
My car is tuned and goes to the track, that's why I bought it. Unlike you I actually enjoy my car enough to use it to it's full potential. Maybe a civic would be a great option for you! Thanks for your opinion though guy
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      09-09-2016, 12:46 PM   #64
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My car is tuned and goes to the track, that's why I bought it. Unlike you I actually enjoy my car enough to use it to it's full potential. Maybe a civic would be a great option for you! Thanks for your opinion though guy
And your only using s04s??? Doesn't sound like using it to the full potential to me...
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      09-09-2016, 02:36 PM   #65
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And your only using s04s??? Doesn't sound like using it to the full potential to me...
lol exactly.

Even the $hitty DW outperforms the s04. Come on dude; at least go with the PSS or something...so much more left in dat potential.
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      09-09-2016, 02:47 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
lol exactly.

Even the $hitty DW outperforms the s04. Come on dude; at least go with the PSS or something...so much more left in dat potential.
I'm done feeding his trolling, just added him to the ignore list.
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