[sk55]

guys,

first let me start i love my n54... despite its quirks... no other issues.

but what really pisses me off is the cheap plastic VDO continental water pump...

wife n54 failed at 80k.

i just replaced mine at 83k....

i actually tried to use the pierburg wp which is all metal... although electrical connector is the same... the mounting holes are slightly offset.. also the are no mounting holes for the thermostat.

i did a little google check these pumps have been failing like around 50k or less miles for replacements?


just wondering if any one else is interested in filing a class action lawsuit about this. I emailed a lawyer who specalizes in these cases against bmw...

just seeing if there enough interest with n54 owners to do it?

coming from e46... i got a stewart pump with lifetime warranty.

that was 2005...

i goto 98 volvo with water pump with a life of at least 10 years.

2010 i got a new bmw plastic electric pump, probably located the hottest area in the car... with cheap plastic that cracks with vibration? which cost like $500?

if there wp upgrade that cost 2k... that lasted 100k miles i would get it... unfortunately we dont have that option.

i wouldn't complain if this was honda civic... but this a damn bmw.

[Barefoot-335is]

I have also wondered this.
On my '08 335i, the car had 3 water pumps by 57k miles.
My '12 335is, just had one replaced at 54K miles.
I think that there has also been connection between the OFHG going and taking out the water pump which has happened on both of my N54's.

[sk55]

Originally Posted by Barefoot-335is

I have also wondered this.
On my '08 335i, the car had 3 water pumps by 57k miles.
My '12 335is, just had one replaced at 54K miles.
I think that there has also been connection between the OFHG going and taking out the water pump which has happened on both of my N54's.

3 pumps by 57k miles is crazy!!! that really sucks.

no its just bad design....

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/ind...&product_id=70

the square box on top is the brains... on the stewart electric pumps... these can be relocated in a cooler area like the ECU box..... while u keep the simple pump components made out of metal in the lower area radaitor area.

i bet bmw did this our pumps would be more reliable.

[Fundguy1]

My first kne lasted 199,968 miles. On second at 240, 278 miles. Its just luck. They fail. The real crime is making the repair parts cost so much. I'm sure its a $5 part that always goes but its part of an expensive "unit" and the labor to get at it sucks.

[CTinline-six]

The thing that kills me is the way they fail. Almost no warning at all and you need to be towed. No temp gauge, just driving along and suddenly you have to pull over and get towed. This can happen right in your driveway or somewhere in the mountains 100 miles from anything.

At least with the older cars the gauge warns you that the car is running a bit warm so you can plan how to nurse it home.

[sk55]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

My first kne lasted 199,968 miles. On second at 240, 278 miles. Its just luck. They fail. The real crime is making the repair parts cost so much. I'm sure its a $5 part that always goes but its part of an expensive "unit" and the labor to get at it sucks.

240k thats amazing on first unit.
so about 50k on second replacement unit on n54?

my point is the water pump is the most critical part in the whole car. Now for some reason we accepted the fact that bmw to $60.00 mechanical pump (e46)

and made it what $500.00... and less reliable?!?

lets keep cost out it... say its 100.00... upon extensive google searches...

these replacement continetal-vdo pumps are failing at 10k, 20k ,30k....

When you got a number of n54 failing less 30k... thats a bit ridiculous.

i think the point is bmw drivers dont want to get stranded on out of state road trip.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by sk55

i think the point is bmw drivers dont want to get stranded on out of state road trip.

This is key.

There have been a number of times driving my girl's car where we were in a bad area or really far from home (6 hours or more) and the water pump scenario ran through my head. Hers was replaced at 60,000ish. Are the N52 pumps known to last longer than the one found in the N54? I know the N54 has plastic on the housing.

Maybe I should just get the triple A package with the x number of free tows?

[Delta0311]

BMW, engineered to leave you stranded.

In my 07 328 it lasted the whole time I owned the car; from like 03 miles all the way to 94k. On the 335 it failed at 35k.

[John 070]

I don't think it could be a lawsuit, I don't even think there's one on Takata and folks are still driving their cars with no resolution. That's way more serious.

540i drivers had lots of issues with water pumps, they just ditched their cars, they didn't sue. Suing is not the answer imho.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by the storm breaks

We really shouldn't have to worry about crap this, but this is one reason why we take the VR6 Passat out of state instead of the e92. We took it about 1k roundtrip a while back without any issues, but I probably wouldn't do it again with what I know now, its increase in mileage, and driving on non-rft's with no spare.

Just not worth it to me, I'd rather go with a safer bet. I'd probably rent a car to go out of state if it was my only car.

My 98 Maxima served the same purpose as your VR6. Different technology, original water pump @ 244k blah blah blah

Old style water pumps weep before going bad. Newer electric ones, the owner weeps

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by the storm breaks

Just not worth it to me, I'd rather go with a safer bet. I'd probably rent a car to go out of state if it was my only car.

It's ridiculous that in this day in age with advancements in all kinds of technology we still have to say this.

[BeastMode335i]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

It's ridiculous that in this day in age with advancements in all kinds of technology we still have to say this.

Agree

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

This is key.

There have been a number of times driving my girl's car where we were in a bad area or really far from home (6 hours or more) and the water pump scenario ran through my head. Hers was replaced at 60,000ish. Are the N52 pumps known to last longer than the one found in the N54? I know the N54 has plastic on the housing.

Maybe I should just get the triple A package with the x number of free tows?

N52 seem to be a little better. For one, the housing is aluminum so that failure mode is eliminated. They do still fail, but it's not as common - mine has 122k. my wife's died at 90k. I don't feel too bad about one lasting ~100k miles, but I'd be pissed if it only lasted 35k.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

It's ridiculous that in this day in age with advancements in all kinds of technology we still have to say this.

What advancements....

We're all owners here, so we all have skin in the game. I doubt anyone here would expect BMW to be #1, #2, or #3 for reliability.

If Germans built reliable cars, who here would not buy a 2006 A8 used, as a daily driver? It's depreciated about $64k over 10 years, and is still a very, very, nice ride. The person who does snag such a car, does understand its reliability. If pigs flew, we'd all be riding in 2008 750's and never encountering any repairs.

Seriously, ABS failure is $4,200 at the dealer, and plagues the E9x. One can't just buy the car and ignore it, one could do 3 water pumps for that.

[hassmaschine]

They used to make reliable cars - that hasn't really been the case for a long time though. My neighbor still daily drives an original 1983 5 series - it probably has 600,000 miles on it by now.. lol.

[PhaseP]

Some failures of 335 pumps are propeller plastic housing cracking. The rest of the pump is fine, just cracked plastic leaking coolant. That is just dump, they should at least sell the part that breaks separately.

For the other cases, pump stoping working, I don't think anybody found the real culprit for sure. Electronics is blamed, but they may be the victim.
My thinking is, after dissecting my N52 all aluminum pump, it is a brushless motor. And the rotor of the motor on these has a very strong magnet with shaft going through it. And the rotor is immersed in coolant all the time. For the magnet not to get in touch with coolant and corrode, they covered it with a stainless steel shell. The whole thing is precision laser welded. If this shell fails and lets coolant in, the magnet will start corroding and this may end up the rotor getting jammed. Jammed rotor can take out the electronics with it causing too much current.

Mine had not failed, but had to replace the thermostat, and being over 100K miles I replaced it at the same time with thermostat.

When I dissected the pump, everything on it looked very well made and very high tech (Pierburg N52 pump).

But it is a case of over engineering, not keeping it simple stupid. It has advantage of computer being able to modulate the pump speed to keep the engine temperature at desired value more precisely, at the cost of being more complicated and expensive and complication means more modes of failure with it. Is the benefit worth the cost?

I don't know what the internals of the 335 VDO pump looks like, what they used to seal the magnets of the rotor from the sealant etc.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by John 070

What advancements....

We're all owners here, so we all have skin in the game. I doubt anyone here would expect BMW to be #1, #2, or #3 for reliability.

If Germans built reliable cars, who here would not buy a 2006 A8 used, as a daily driver? It's depreciated about $64k over 10 years, and is still a very, very, nice ride. The person who does snag such a car, does understand its reliability. If pigs flew, we'd all be riding in 2008 750's and never encountering any repairs.

Seriously, ABS failure is $4,200 at the dealer, and plagues the E9x. One can't just buy the car and ignore it, one could do 3 water pumps for that.

Advancements meaning that simple things like water pumps won't leave you stranded. The ABS failure is expensive, but it won't prevent you from driving the vehicle home, or to a shop. When the water pump goes the car goes into limp mode, then stops altogether. Most water pumps have a weep hole and will leak when they start getting bad, or the vehicle will start running hotter on the gauge giving you warning.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

Advancements meaning that simple things like water pumps won't leave you stranded. The ABS failure is expensive, but it won't prevent you from driving the vehicle home, or to a shop. When the water pump goes the car goes into limp mode, then stops altogether. Most water pumps have a weep hole and will leak when they start getting bad, or the vehicle will start running hotter on the gauge giving you warning.

Hans and Franz over at BMW would argue that the new water pump that leaves you stranded, is far more energy efficient and advanced, over the old style which has a weep hole, robs the motor of HP, and leaves a larger carbon footprint.

imho anyone can do anything they want. Toyota wanted to build a car that was faster, had better aerodynamics, quieter, and lower cd than the competition, i.e. BMW and MB. This was some weird hare-brained idea in 1983. By fall 1989, the car was done and ready for sale, and called the Lexus LS400. Top speed was 160 mph, cd was .26, I could go on and on. Champagne glasses could be stacked on the hood with the motor revved simulating 160, and they would not fall off. The car never broke, and won every award imagineable for reliability. BMW accused Toyota of selling the cars for below cost, no way it could cost that little, and have spanked them those 4 ways. BMW does not want to build a reliable car, it's simply not a goal, they could, if they wanted to (do you really think they cannot make a DSC hydro pump last over 50k?). They want to build a prestigious car with road feel, and one that all women admire. They were doing a pretty good job but seemed to have stopped in 2010. In late '06, people stopped and gawked at E92's, they never did that with any Toyota.

[twastheglow]

Originally Posted by John 070

Hans and Franz over at BMW would argue that the new water pump that leaves you stranded, is far more energy efficient and advanced, over the old style which has a weep hole, robs the motor of HP, and leaves a larger carbon footprint.

imho anyone can do anything they want. Toyota wanted to build a car that was faster, had better aerodynamics, quieter, and lower cd than the competition, i.e. BMW and MB. This was some weird hare-brained idea in 1983. By fall 1989, the car was done and ready for sale, and called the Lexus LS400. Top speed was 160 mph, cd was .26, I could go on and on. Champagne glasses could be stacked on the hood with the motor revved simulating 160, and they would not fall off. The car never broke, and won every award imagineable for reliability. BMW accused Toyota of selling the cars for below cost, no way it could cost that little, and have spanked them those 4 ways. BMW does not want to build a reliable car, it's simply not a goal, they could, if they wanted to (do you really think they cannot make a DSC hydro pump last over 50k?). They want to build a prestigious car with road feel, and one that all women admire. They were doing a pretty good job but seemed to have stopped in 2010. In late '06, people stopped and gawked at E92's, they never did that with any Toyota.

Unfortunately this is sad but true.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by twastheglow

Unfortunately this is sad but true.

The other sad part is when the powers that be realize that what they've made is too good and they dial it back....imho that may have happened at Lexus...apparently the '07-'12 LS can be problematic like 7 series are...until then, the vehicles were bulletproof....

[sk55]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

This is key.

There have been a number of times driving my girl's car where we were in a bad area or really far from home (6 hours or more) and the water pump scenario ran through my head. Hers was replaced at 60,000ish. Are the N52 pumps known to last longer than the one found in the N54? I know the N54 has plastic on the housing.

Maybe I should just get the triple A package with the x number of free tows?

n52 is piersburg pump which seems to be of better quality... the whole casing is completely metal.

the new 335 pump is made by piersburg which also looks like quality.... but holes are slightly offset so it wont bolt on the n54 engine.

[sk55]

Originally Posted by John 070

I don't think it could be a lawsuit, I don't even think there's one on Takata and folks are still driving their cars with no resolution. That's way more serious.

540i drivers had lots of issues with water pumps, they just ditched their cars, they didn't sue. Suing is not the answer imho.

there a class action on takata

http://www.labaton.com/en/cases/Taka...ass-Action.cfm

i dont think most people understand a class lawsuit (a lawyer can chime in correct me) but all it takes a bunch of documented incidences... the lawyers get paid millions when they win... the bmw or benz owner are happy cause they got their motors fixed or what not.

a little google u'll see their fairly common for autos.