[ab987]

Originally Posted by Atomicbear

Please let me know what you think of my first V10.0 pull. Ambient temp was 2 degrees C (36F) and it PULLED HARD!!! Love the V10 map so far! wow! please critique my graph. Thanks! https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nu2eyy40e...noALP.csv?dl=0

Looks good apart from IATs, which climb pretty rapidly about 50 degrees, which could explain some of the timing corrections you are seeing. As you approach summer months, you may experience some really high IATs, especially if you do back-to-back or multi-gear pulls. You should probably look into an upgraded intercooler (ideally CSF/VRSF/wagner).

Fuel trims also look a bit alarming, you are running pretty rich. Could potentially be biased O2s? Somebody else might have to chime in there because I have not dealt with that personally, mine just outright failed on me

[Silent9n54]

i have over 150 1/4 mile time slips on stock turbos and i have tried shifting from 5000-7000 and i get the best times shifting around 5000-5300 over and over again. I would trust real world results over some math. STOCK TURBOS ONLY. The boost tapers hard up top. I launch from 2nd and you can go to 5500rpm in 2nd but for 100-200 runs its best to shift early.

Originally Posted by ab987

5000-5300 is a bit early, no? The gearing advantage would outweigh the engine torque differences there in any gear (meaning more overall torque) at least on V9. Obviously we have not seen a dyno sheet of V10 so it's hard to say there but it's probably not far off. General rule of thumb for upside down turbo motors (and turbo motors in general) is shift earlier in higher gears as they are closer together and gearing advantage decreases. Based on a v9 e50 dyno, optimal shift times for maximum acceleration on a 6mt are roughly as follows (and should be similar for most OTS tunes):

1-2: 6922rpm
2-3: 6601rpm
3-4: 5981rpm
4-5: 5732rpm
5-6: 5667rpm

And just for kicks and being a bored software engineer, I punched in 6AT ratios too, and here are ideal shift times for those:

1-2: 7068rpm
2-3: 6663rpm
3-4: 5991rpm
4-5: 5961rpm
5-6: 5841rpm

If you have your car's dyno chart and want me to punch in your torque figures, I can do that

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

i have over 150 1/4 mile time slips on stock turbos and i have tried shifting from 5000-7000 and i get the best times shifting around 5000-5300 over and over again. I would trust real world results over some math. STOCK TURBOS ONLY. The boost tapers hard up top. I launch from 2nd and you can go to 5500rpm in 2nd but for 100-200 runs its best to shift early.

Are you on a custom map? The reason I'm asking is they tend to pull harder up top on stock turbos than OTS maps, so would probably be better shifting somewhere just below 6k

[ab987]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Are you on a custom map? The reason I'm asking is they tend to pull harder up top on stock turbos than OTS maps, so would probably be better shifting somewhere just below 6k

This is what I'm thinking too, especially if you are on a high boost mid-range map, then it would actually be beneficial to shift that early. But on OTS maps you are leaving probably leaving time on the table. It may be a good idea to shift a bit earlier than I said in 1st and 2nd because load will be higher in higher gears meaning higher boost and higher torque, but I think 5000-5300 is too early. That's probably about where peak power is happening, then you put yourself 50-100hp below peak power

[Silent9n54]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Are you on a custom map? The reason I'm asking is they tend to pull harder up top on stock turbos than OTS maps, so would probably be better shifting somewhere just below 6k

i am on a custom map, but its pretty easy to test on a 100-200 pass, so go for it and post the results.

[Love/HateTheseCars]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

Don't even bother touching your turbos until you rule out much cheaper and much more common issues that cause slow spool.

Replace all vacuum lines. Plenty of DIY articles here, cost is minimal and time is 1hr at most. That's by far the most common culprit.

While doing so you can check the wastegate arm movement on the rear trubo to make sure it's not obstructed by the downpipe vbands. Just manually actuate it with your fingers and make sure it moves freely without hitting anything.

If the problem is still there you should consider a boost leak. Check intercooler connections and the chargepipe. Maybe try a pressure test if you can't find anything obvious.

You can also consider new boost solenoids as they are cheap and easy to replace.

Yep, on-board with all this.
Did the vacuum lines already. Replaced the IC, hoses and chargepipe. Replaced front inlet with silicone - will do the rear soon, along with outlets.
Need to check the solenoids IIRC, there is a way to test them.

So here are two pulls.
The first is mhd 0 - stock boost of about 6 psi. The car is a turd! LOL!

https://datazap.me/u/love-hatethesecars/stage-0?log=0&data=3-22

Second is 1+
It pulls beautifully until all hell breaks loose and it throws a 30ff and drops into limp mode.
Can you tell why ?

https://datazap.me/u/love-hatethesecars/stage-1-30ff?log=0&data=3-22&zoom=0-112

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by Love/HateTheseCars

Yep, on-board with all this.
Did the vacuum lines already. Replaced the IC, hoses and chargepipe. Replaced front inlet with silicone - will do the rear soon, along with outlets.
Need to check the solenoids IIRC, there is a way to test them.

So here are two pulls.
The first is mhd 0 - stock boost of about 6 psi. The car is a turd! LOL!

https://datazap.me/u/love-hatethesecars/stage-0?log=0&data=3-22

Second is 1+
It pulls beautifully until all hell breaks loose and it throws a 30ff and drops into limp mode.
Can you tell why ?

https://datazap.me/u/love-hatethesecars/stage-1-30ff?log=0&data=3-22&zoom=0-112

Possibly a big boost leak.
You are way off boost target the entire pull. You can also see your waste gate duty cycle is near pinned the whole time. Turbos are working overtime but still not meeting boost target.. triggering the cel.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

i am on a custom map, but its pretty easy to test on a 100-200 pass, so go for it and post the results.

Can't right now mate, it's pretty damp/cold outside and I tried a 3rd gear log with DSC fully off, with hardly any traction, back end snapped violently, almost lost it, could have ended real bad.

I'm pretty sure shifting around 6k is optimal on a custom tune.

[Love/HateTheseCars]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Bro

Possibly a big boost leak.
You are way off boost target the entire pull. You can also see your waste gate duty cycle is near pinned the whole time. Turbos are working overtime but still not meeting boost target.. triggering the cel.

Possible that the wastegates are just not sealing?

Otherwise the leaks would be between the urban and the intake, right. They are all new connections. Is there a DIY on pressure testing that?

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by Love/HateTheseCars

Possible that the wastegates are just not sealing?

Otherwise the leaks would be between the urban and the intake, right. They are all new connections. Is there a DIY on pressure testing that?

Several places to check. Connections to the intercooler (the factory style connections are prone to leaking. The black and green seal should be replaced regularly.) Charge pipe, diverter or blow off valve, or even the tmap sensor on the charge pipe.

Shot waste gates are also a possibility. Do you hear waste gate rattle ?

Bad Boost solenoids have been known to cause weird problems also .

[Love/HateTheseCars]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Bro

Several places to check. Connections to the intercooler (the factory style connections are prone to leaking. The black and green seal should be replaced regularly.) Charge pipe, diverter or blow off valve, or even the tmap sensor on the charge pipe.

Shot waste gates are also a possibility. Do you hear waste gate rattle ?

Bad Boost solenoids have been known to cause weird problems also .

IC is ETS with silicone couplers, chargepipe replaced,, stock diverters are solid,, TMap is good..
Turbos are shite and need a rebuild. Are you familiar with the flapper kits options?
Know which ones are good?

I found a vacuum and electrical test for the solenoids. Ill do that tomorrow.

[Bimmer_Bro]

Originally Posted by Love/HateTheseCars

IC is ETS with silicone couplers, chargepipe replaced,, stock diverters are solid,, TMap is good..
Turbos are shite and need a rebuild. Are you familiar with the flapper kits options?
Know which ones are good?

I found a vacuum and electrical test for the solenoids. Ill do that tomorrow.

I am not familiar with that sorry. Most common consensus on here is when the waste gates crap out, it's time for new turbos. Most go for the RB turbos.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

i am on a custom map, but its pretty easy to test on a 100-200 pass, so go for it and post the results.

It's too cold here when roads aren't busy to test, however my E50 OTS PB is 8.89s in a 4080lb e93 shifting around 6k. Especially in a 100-200, shifting an extra gear to 5th here would probably increase the time even if WTQ was higher in 5th, which on an OTS map won't be the case.

If you are running something like buraq's here on a 6mt:

then your shift map would look more like:
1-2: 6390 (a bit lower due to load)
2-3: 6209 (also a bit lower)
3-4: 5873
4-5: 5443
5-6: 5358

So if you are doing 125+mph things on a tune like that, yes, shifting around 5300-5400 would be beneficial. If you have a dyno of your car, the math won't lie (except for low gears where it can't account for reduced load)

[Silent9n54]

I managed a 7.4s 100-200 on a random pull without my ideal track setup that i usually run for 1/4 mile passes, and hitting a bump and losing traction for a bit shifting 4-5th at 5100

Originally Posted by ab987

It's too cold here when roads aren't busy to test, however my E50 OTS PB is 8.89s in a 4080lb e93 shifting around 6k. Especially in a 100-200, shifting an extra gear to 5th here would probably increase the time even if WTQ was higher in 5th, which on an OTS map won't be the case.

If you are running something like buraq's here on a 6mt:

then your shift map would look more like:
1-2: 6390 (a bit lower due to load)
2-3: 6209 (also a bit lower)
3-4: 5873
4-5: 5443
5-6: 5358

So if you are doing 125+mph things on a tune like that, yes, shifting around 5300-5400 would be beneficial. If you have a dyno of your car, the math won't lie (except for low gears where it can't account for reduced load)

[ab987]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

I managed a 7.4s 100-200 on a random pull without my ideal track setup that i usually run for 1/4 mile passes, and hitting a bump and losing traction for a bit shifting 4-5th at 5100

With a time like 7.4 on stockers you've gotta be an absolutely wild kill tune, right? My perspective is kinda skewed given my car's weight (4240 with me) but I am aiming for just below that on my twos (on 93 anyways)! It's no wonder shifting that early might be beneficial for you, 4-5 at 5100 is probably bang on. Earlier gears though, there might be a little bit left in it. The gears are pretty far apart, again assuming it's a 6MT. I don't know the AT's ratios off the top of my head

[studio54]

Originally Posted by ab987

It's too cold here when roads aren't busy to test, however my E50 OTS PB is 8.89s in a 4080lb e93 shifting around 6k. Especially in a 100-200, shifting an extra gear to 5th here would probably increase the time even if WTQ was higher in 5th, which on an OTS map won't be the case.

Pretty good times for this weight, the 135i (I have no particular options that will bump the weight) is supposed to be 3373 lbs so, with two people it was like 3650 lbs.

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

I managed a 7.4s 100-200 on a random pull without my ideal track setup that i usually run for 1/4 mile passes, and hitting a bump and losing traction for a bit shifting 4-5th at 5100

Hehe 7.4s ! Impressive.

I wonder on a 100-200, what each 0.1sec represents in term as gap at the end of the run?

[Silent9n54]

Originally Posted by ab987

With a time like 7.4 on stockers you've gotta be an absolutely wild kill tune, right? My perspective is kinda skewed given my car's weight (4240 with me) but I am aiming for just below that on my twos (on 93 anyways)! It's no wonder shifting that early might be beneficial for you, 4-5 at 5100 is probably bang on. Earlier gears though, there might be a little bit left in it. The gears are pretty far apart, again assuming it's a 6MT. I don't know the AT's ratios off the top of my head

yeah its a kill tune, i ran 11.0 on stocks with this tune but this time i had my seats in and 19s in the front instead of the 17x4 skinnies, and more than a half a tank of fuel. Probably an extra 120-150lbs over my track setup. Im sure i can get that time down to 7.1 or 7.0. Oh and mine is an AT not MT.

[Silent9n54]

Originally Posted by studio54

Pretty good times for this weight, the 135i (I have no particular options that will bump the weight) is supposed to be 3373 lbs so, with two people it was like 3650 lbs.



Hehe 7.4s ! Impressive.

I wonder on a 100-200, what each 0.1sec represents in term as gap at the end of the run?

couldnt tell you exactly but doing a 1/4 mile pass and if the guy next to you traps 2mph more you can see him getting away from you. Even though 2mph seems such a small number.

0.1s at the end might be less than half a car difference.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

yeah its a kill tune, i ran 11.0 on stocks with this tune but this time i had my seats in and 19s in the front instead of the 17x4 skinnies, and more than a half a tank of fuel. Probably an extra 120-150lbs over my track setup. Im sure i can get that time down to 7.1 or 7.0. Oh and mine is an AT not MT.

Hoooly cow, 11.0 on stockers is absolutely nuts. Looked at the AT ratios and they actually are further apart. I know you probably don't care, but even if you were making say, 585wtq at 4000-4500, 475wtq at 5500, 400wtq at 6000 (optimistic, but truly record-number kill tune), shift times would be:

1-2: 6443
2-3: 6118
3-4: 5795
4-5: 5767
5-6: 5541

If you are open to try these, I'd be curious to see how they do in the real-world. Of course you might want to shift a tad earlier in the lower gears if you aren't hitting full boost.

On a side note, I went to an ET estimator, and even if I'm making 575whp on e50 on my twos, I'll still be 0.3 seconds slower than your stock turbo time

[Silent9n54]

i actually tried it all, from 6500rpm slowly dropping my shifts and checking times with logs, i have hundreds of time slips, dragy times and logs to match and for me low 5000rpm shifts work best, it might depend on the health of the turbos as well, mine are pretty tired at this point. Last dyno i made 460whp and 530wtq.

Originally Posted by ab987

Hoooly cow, 11.0 on stockers is absolutely nuts. Looked at the AT ratios and they actually are further apart. I know you probably don't care, but even if you were making say, 585wtq at 4000-4500, 475wtq at 5500, 400wtq at 6000 (optimistic, but truly record-number kill tune), shift times would be:

1-2: 6443
2-3: 6118
3-4: 5795
4-5: 5767
5-6: 5541

If you are open to try these, I'd be curious to see how they do in the real-world. Of course you might want to shift a tad earlier in the lower gears if you aren't hitting full boost.

On a side note, I went to an ET estimator, and even if I'm making 575whp on e50 on my twos, I'll still be 0.3 seconds slower than your stock turbo time

[ab987]

Originally Posted by Silent11N54

i actually tried it all, from 6500rpm slowly dropping my shifts and checking times with logs, i have hundreds of time slips, dragy times and logs to match and for me low 5000rpm shifts work best, it might depend on the health of the turbos as well, mine are pretty tired at this point. Last dyno i made 460whp and 530wtq.

Yeah turbos seem tired for sure making that power/tq, that would probably be the difference

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by ab987

Hoooly cow, 11.0 on stockers is absolutely nuts. Looked at the AT ratios and they actually are further apart. I know you probably don't care, but even if you were making say, 585wtq at 4000-4500, 475wtq at 5500, 400wtq at 6000 (optimistic, but truly record-number kill tune), shift times would be:

1-2: 6443
2-3: 6118
3-4: 5795
4-5: 5767
5-6: 5541

If you are open to try these, I'd be curious to see how they do in the real-world. Of course you might want to shift a tad earlier in the lower gears if you aren't hitting full boost.

On a side note, I went to an ET estimator, and even if I'm making 575whp on e50 on my twos, I'll still be 0.3 seconds slower than your stock turbo time

There is no way stock turbo n54 will be faster than RB 2's

The ET estimator is wrong.