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Instrument cluster goes crazy when car is left outside
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05-06-2024, 06:00 PM | #1 |
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Instrument cluster goes crazy when car is left outside
My wife’s 2006 e90 325xi is having an issue, and I can’t seem to find the cause. The factory radio was replaced, so I have an SOS error, but the problem I am more concerned about is that the instrument gauges and lights go crazy after the car sits outside for a few hours. I get the red service light (with the vehicle on a lift), and nothing on the dash seems to work correctly. I want to emphasize that this only happens after the car is outside for a few hours. If the car gets hot inside, the problem is worse, but even if the inside temperature only reaches ~80° F, like on an overcast day, I will still see the issue. Everything seems to work properly if I leave it in the garage all day. Below are some of the issues I am seeing.
I replaced the JBE module, the FRM module, and the instrument cluster (all used), but the symptoms have stayed the same with each of these. I just pulled the car’s front and rear carpets out to see if I could find any corrosion or damaged wiring, but everything looks clean. There are several ground buses under the carpet, and I thought I might find corrosion on them, but they all look clean as well. Has anyone run into anything remotely similar to this? I think my next step is to pull the aftermarket radio to see if it has any effect, but since we had this problem before I replaced the radio, I’m not expecting that to make a difference. |
05-06-2024, 06:52 PM | #2 |
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Here are the errors I see in ProTool when it is acting up. Keep in mind that most of these errors go away after the car sits inside for several hours (or overnight).
****************** Errors ****************** -------------------------------------------- FAMILY [VARIANTE] | CODE: DESCRIPTION -------------------------------------------- EKP [EKPM60_2] | No errors found JBBF [JBBF87] | C904: No description found JBBF [JBBF87] | C907: No description found JBBF [JBBF87] | A6CF: AUC sensor JBBF [JBBF87] | C90B: No description found KLIMA [IHKA87] | E714: Message error (terminal status, 0x130), receiver integrated automatic heating / air conditioning system, transmitter CAS KLIMA [IHKA87] | E717: Message (engine data, 0x1D0) faulty, receiver IHKA, transmitter DME-DDE KLIMA [IHKA87] | E71A: Message (torque 3, 0xAA) faulty, receiver IHKA, transmitter DME-DDE KLIMA [IHKA87] | E71C: Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver IHKA, transmitter DSC VGSG [VGSG90] | 54C6: Oil wear FAS [FAS_PLX] | E444: K-CAN line fault FAS [FAS_PLX] | E447: No description found CAS [CAS] | A0B2: Supply, terminal 30E/30L CAS [CAS] | A0B5: Fault, road speed signal CAS [CAS] | A0B4: Engine start, starter operation CAS [CAS] | A118: Roadspeed signal implausible CAS [CAS] | A110: Roadspeed signal implausible CAS [CAS] | D904: K-CAN wire fault CAS [CAS] | A114: Line fault, el. steering lock CAS [CAS] | A0B1: Input, selector-lever position, implausible CAS [CAS] | A0B0: Input, brake lights, implausible CAS [CAS] | A0A9: Control-module fault CAS [CAS] | A0AF: Processor CAS [CAS] | A119: Power supply, el. steering lock CAS [CAS] | A0BD: Output, wake-up line CAS [CAS] | A0BE: Terminal 15 output 1 CAS [CAS] | A0BF: Terminal 15 output 2 CAS [CAS] | A0C0: Terminal 15 output 3 FRM [FRM_87] | 9CAB: One terminal 15 missing FRM [FRM_87] | 9CAC: Brake-light switch faulty FRM [FRM_87] | 9CBC: Short-circuit fault 1 FRM [FRM_87] | E584: No description found FRM [FRM_87] | E587: No description found DME/DDE [MSV70] | 2F45: Interface, immobilizer-DME DME/DDE [MSV70] | CDA8: Message (status, KOMBI, 0x1B4 ) incorrect, receiver DME, transmitter KOMBI DME/DDE [MSV70] | CD95: Message (operation, cruise control/ACC, 0x194) incorrect, receiver DME, transmitter DSC / SZL / LWS / ACC DME/DDE [MSV70] | 2DC3: Monitoring, terminal 15 DME/DDE [MSV70] | CDA0: Message error (terminal status, 0x130), DME receiver, CAS transmitter KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3BC: Instrument cluster: Message (communication fault) KOMBI [KOMB87] | A54C: Message error (raw data fluid level fuel tank, 0x349), receiver instrument panel, transmitter JBE KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AC: Message (distance travelled, 0x1A6) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3AE: Message (engine speed, 0x0AA) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DME-DDE KOMBI [KOMB87] | A550: Message (speed, 0x1A0) faulty, receiver KOMBI, transmitter DSC KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3B1: Message error (turn-signal indicator light cycle, 0x1F6), receiver instrument panel, transmitter footwell module KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3BD: Message error (junction box, 0x0C0), receiver instrument panel, transmitter JBE KOMBI [KOMB87] | A3B2: Message error (terminal status, 0x130), receiver instrument panel, transmitter CAS KOMBI [KOMB87] | E104: No description found KOMBI [KOMB87] | E107: No description found DSC [DXC_90] | C998: No description found DSC [DXC_90] | D35E: Message (temperature, 0x310) missing, receiver DSC, transmitter KOMBI DSC [DXC_90] | 5EAC: DSC sensor: plausibility DSC [DXC_90] | D35A: No message (terminal status 130) DSC [DXC_90] | 5EFC: No vehicle-type data: clear fault memory DSC [DXC_90] | 5E96: DSC sensor: plausibility TEL/MULF [TELE60_2] | A375: No description found MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | A16C: No description found MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | E184: CD / M-ASK / CCC / RAD2 / CHAMP -GW: K-CAN line fault MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | E187: CD / M-ASK / CCC / RAD2 / CHAMP -GW: K-CAN communication fault MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | E194: No message, receiver CCC/MASK/RAD2, transmitter CAS MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | E18D: No description found MOSTGW [RAD2_GW] | E190: No description found MRS [MRS5] | 93D2: Telltale lamp for front passenger airbag deactivation MRS [MRS5] | C947: No description found MRS [MRS5] | 940D: No message (brightness LCD) from instrument cluster, receiver ACSM/MRS5 , transmitter KOMBI LDM/ICM [LDM_90] | D030: Message (status of KOMBI, 0x1B4) faulty, receiver LDM, transmitter KOMBI LDM/ICM [LDM_90] | D016: Message error (operation cruise control/ACC, 0x194), receiver LDM, transmitter ACC EGS [GS19B] | CF1F: No message from CAS, receiver DCT/EGS, transmitter DME-DDE/CAS EGS [GS19B] | CF23: No message from KOMBI, receiver DCT/EGS, transmitter AHM/KOMBI EGS [GS19B] | CF20: No message from CAS, receiver DCT/EGS, transmitter DSC/ACC/CAS EGS [GS19B] | CF21: No message from the KOMBI, receiver DCT/EGS, transmitter DSC/KOMBI VIRTSG92 [] | No errors found MASK/CCC [RAD2] | ABD2: No description found FZD [FZD_87] | DE84: No description found FZD [FZD_87] | A670: No description found |
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05-06-2024, 07:58 PM | #3 |
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I noticed when I pulled the carpet that all the factory wiring was neatly routed and tied into place, except for these. It looks like they go to the blower motor, and I doubt it has anything to do with my issue, but I find it strange that they were lying loose under the carpet like this. Does anyone know if this is normal?
Please ignore the yellow wire and the braided loom; that’s the wiring for the aftermarket stereo. |
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05-06-2024, 11:41 PM | #4 | ||
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The KOMBI (Instrument Cluster) Module relies almost SOLELY upon K-CAN bus signals/ messages, so when the messages on the BUS system get "Scrambled", it is usually FIRST to indicate an issue, with a "Light Show" (Random Warning Lights). The CAS Module is key to Remote Control Lock/ Unlock signals, as well as START Button issues. Its intermittent faults may be due to BUS faults, so I would look for K-CAN Bus Connector issues FIRST. See ISTA ScreenPrints showing wiring, Connector Locations, & Connector Views (Socket Numbering), which are attached to NEXT Post. Although there may be other connectors to INSPECT for possible damage from Water, Corrosion, Pin/Socket issues or even wiring damage, I would BEGIN by inspecting the K-CAN wires (Green & Orange/Green) and their respective Pins/Sockets, at the following Connectors: 1) X14272, Black Connector at JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module; particularly Pins #29 & #31 (KOMBI) & Pins #47 & #48 (MRS). 2) X14271, Blue Connector at JBE, pins #10 & #46 (X14271/10 & X14271/46). 3) X1716/3 & X1716/4. That connector is at left of driver footwell. If there has been ANY sign of water ingress, such as wet carpet in either front footwell, or Condensate on inside of windshield/ windows, there is probably corrosion or moisture at one or more of the BUS connectors. Please let us know what you find, George |
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Mike K372.50 jbellk75rt188.50 |
05-06-2024, 11:44 PM | #5 |
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Attached are ISTA ScreenPrints showing K-CAN BUS connectors & wiring for 2006 325xi, per prior post.
George |
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Mike K372.50 johnnyorange58.50 |
05-07-2024, 05:45 AM | #6 | |
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If I find corrosion in those connectors, what is the best way to clean it out? I have dielectric grease to keep future moisture out, but I won't be able to clean the individual pins with emery cloth or something similar. Thanks again! |
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05-07-2024, 08:05 AM | #7 |
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FYI my Kombi on my 2011 328 went nutty too because of water ingress at the RDC module placed in the right rear wheel well. Removing this module made the Kombi behave but then of course I then got tire pressure sensor errors as the RDC is part of that system. Waterproofing the RDC with tape etc solved this issue. Why BMW placed a water sensitive module in the path of splashing water (down low just under the wheel well liner) is beyond me.
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05-07-2024, 12:14 PM | #8 | |
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If any sign of water ingress to JB Fuse Panel area or Driver Footwell indicates an Active Water Leak, post back with details, as that needs to be addressed to prevent recurrence. George |
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johnnyorange58.50 |
05-07-2024, 03:24 PM | #9 | |
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05-07-2024, 03:25 PM | #10 | |
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05-07-2024, 09:25 PM | #11 | |
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On the driver footwell connector, it looked like there may have been some corrosion (blue) on pins 3 & 4. I sprayed Electronics cleaner on them and used a soft-bristled bottle brush to clean them as best I could. I'm going to put some dielectric grease on it (to keep any future moisture out) and get everything reconnected. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and be a nice day tomorrow so I can park it in the sun and see if the problem is gone. |
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05-08-2024, 11:56 AM | #12 |
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Unfortunately, when I parked it in the sun today, I determined that cleaning up that connector did not fix the issue. So, I will be reinstalling the original radio to see if that makes any difference, but I don't expect it to. I'll update after that is complete and tested.
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Mike K372.50 |
05-09-2024, 07:50 PM | #13 |
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I removed the aftermarket stereo and components, along with all of the wiring, and reinstalled the factory stereo. I also installed a new battery. So far, everything is working well, but it was overcast, cool, and rainy today, so that is inconclusive. It's supposed to stay in the 50-60° F range until next week, so I may not know until then whether the issue is resolved.
Fun fact (or not)...BMW batteries have a 2-year warranty now with NO prorating afterwards. My (properly registered) BMW battery died after 2 years and 2 months, so I had to pay full price for a replacement battery. |
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05-11-2024, 03:10 PM | #14 |
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Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like replacing the battery and removing the aftermarket stereo and associated wiring fixed the issue. We were at the Import and Performance Nationals at Carlisle today, and after the car was parked for a few hours (partly sunny and about 65° F), we found that the problem remained unchanged.
Several people there told me that it looks like a bad ground or a bad connection behind the dash, so my next step will be to test (or bypass) the vehicle ground while the problem is present and see if it goes away. The good news is that I’ve confirmed the aftermarket stereo is not the cause of the problem, but the bad news is that I still don’t know what the cause is. |
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05-11-2024, 08:36 PM | #15 | |
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Fault Codes are "Clues" to help you know WHAT to test to locate the fault. 1) WHAT Fault Codes do you currently have related to Bus Signals (Message Errors, etc.)? Fault Codes do NOT "go away" if they are NOT CLEARED. Warning Lights on the Instrument Cluster may "go away" if the faults are NOT Active, but the Codes should remain until CLEARED using your ProTool Scan Tool. 2) Were the faults you posted on 5/6 CLEARED? 3) Can ProTool display "Freeze Frame Data" or "Fault DETAILS", including the mileage/km at which the fault last was saved? If you're NOT sure WHAT your ProTool Data actually MEANS, CLEAR all fault codes in ALL Modules and provide a LIST of all fault codes in ALL modules which appear AFTER clearing old codes. George |
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05-12-2024, 11:32 AM | #16 | |
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1) I don't know what fault codes are related to the bus. I did check the connectors as previously described, but many of the codes show "No description found", and I don't know how to tell which of the others are related to the bus. Since everything seems to work properly when it has not been parked in the sun, I would guess that most (if not all) of them are related to the bus or ground issue that is causing my problem. 2) I did clear the codes each time after the issue to see what comes back when it acts up again. The attached file ProTool_Scan_11_52_AM.txt shows the codes stored in the system as of this morning. 3) I don't know if the ProTool can display "Freeze Frame Data". I can go into each of the codes for more details, but I did not do that from this scan due to the sheer number of codes. After saving the codes, I cleared them using the ProTool. This is attachment ProTool_Scan_11_53_AM. Three of the codes did not clear, listed below. JBBF [JBBF87] | C904: No description found JBBF [JBBF87] | 9C69: Rear stratification-flap potentiometer KOMBI [KOMB87] | E104: No description found From what I've found, the 9C69 code is for the rear vents. Mine are disconnected at this time, so I'm guessing that is what is throwing that code. Since the issue was here before those wires were disconnected, I strongly doubt that has anything to do with my problem. I found online that the C904 code is a K-CAN Line Fault. Other than it being listed for the JBE, I didn't find anything to narrow down where to look. The E104 code is listed under the instrument cluster, but again, I don't know where to look to find the cause. I did replace the cluster with another used one (temporarily), but the issue stayed the same, so I put the original back in. I hope that information helps, please let me know if you need any more detail for a specific item. |
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05-12-2024, 01:42 PM | #17 |
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I seem to remember on a past thread that disconnecting those rear vents can create other issues. I’ll defer to George here...
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05-12-2024, 02:09 PM | #18 | |
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C904 | JBE: K-CAN wire fault | speg56 | Junction Box Electronics E104 | INSTRUMENT CLUSTER: K-CAN wire fault | komb60 | Instrument cluster 9C69 | JBE: Rear stratification-flap potentiometer | jbbf87 | Junction Box electronics Other Earlier Fault Codes, "No description found" per ProTool: C907 | JBE: K-CAN communication fault | jbbf70 | Junction Box electronics C90B | JBE: PT-CAN communication fault | jbbf70 | Junction Box electronics A3B6 | No message, receiver instrument panel, transmitter CAS | komb56 | Instrument cluster E107 | INSTRUMENT CLUSTER: K-CAN communication fault | komb60 | Instrument cluster E447 | SMFA: K-CAN communication fault | fas_65_2 | Seat module, driver E584 | FRM: K-CAN wire fault | frm_70 | Driver's side footwell module E587 | FRM: K-CAN communication fault | frm_70 | Driver's side footwell module C998 | DSC: Insignificant SZL fault: clear fault memory | dxc_70 | Dynamic stability control EHB3 C947 | MRS: K-CAN Communication fault | mrs7 | Multiple restraint system 5F56: NO Reliable definition found (i) BMW FCL, (ii) ISTA, (iii) Online/Google; appears to be Message Fault (Bus) DE84: NO Reliable definition found (i) BMW FCL, (ii) ISTA, (iii) Online/Google; appears to be Message Fault (Bus) NOTE: some Module SGBD/Variant info DIFFERS from that provided by ProTool. Where that is case, the SGBD provided by ProTool (e.g. KOMB87) was NOT found in BMW FCL Definition. Fault Code Definitions MAY vary by SGBD/Module Variant. It appears clear to me that you have a Bus wiring issue. Most likely somewhere in the K-CAN bus wiring (Green & Orange/Green wires). Unfortunately, I have NOT personally researched or diagnosed such a fault. I will check ISTA & see what it suggests. I would suggest that YOU get/POST Freeze Frame Data and Fault Details from ProTool for the 3 Codes that came back/ did NOT Clear: C904, E104 & 9C69. If NO Clues found in FF Data/ Fault Details for those 3 codes, I would then remove the 2 screws that hold Instrument Cluster in Place (at top), and inspect/clean the connector to KOMBI/ Cluster. My SWAG is that there is a fault, as LONG as those 3 codes will NOT clear, & waiting for warm weather with car outside is NOT necessary. Trying to FIND cause of those 3 codes NOT clearing would be MY Goal. Everything points to a BUS Wiring Issue. What confuses me: You have a fault (9C69) in JBBF/JBE for "Rear Stratification Flap Potentiometer". That is ONE of 8 Flap Motors on the LIN Bus, connected to the IHKA (Climate Control) Module. I have NO IDEA HOW any issue with that Flap motor would NOT cause code in IHKA ("No errors found"), but causes an error in JBBF?? 1) Do ALL the IHKA Control Panel buttons work, to change air delivery from vents (Footwell, Ventilation, Defrost/windscreen, 2 T-Stat Temp controls, etc.)? 2) Do I understand correctly that BOTH (a) the "Light Show" on Instrument Cluster, and (b) Wiper "Self-activation" have occurred with Engine OFF? 3) Were the Fault Codes cleared with Ignition ON, Engine OFF? The 3 listed codes would NOT clear/ returned, WITHOUT starting engine? 4) Have you had (a) Any water leaks into either Footwell? (b) Any recall or other work done on vehicle PRIOR to issue beginning? We can probably SOLVE this issue, but just to let you understand the "Challenge", see this thread: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1495797 The Shop NEVER identified the exact cause of the Bus Fault, but the problem apparently "Went Away" after ALL/ Most of the Module connectors were disconnected, then reconnected. George |
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05-12-2024, 02:50 PM | #19 |
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I did NOT see your mention of disconnecting "rear vents" until I was posting the above. ACTUALLY that code (9C69)
is in JBBF Memory (rather than IHKA) 'cuz the Controller/ Potentiometer is connected to the JBBF/JBE Module rather than IHKA. See attached ISTA ScreenPrint. The Flap Motor controlled by that potentiometer is connected to the LIN Bus/ IHKA Module, but that's NOT what this Code relates to: 9C69 | JBE: Rear stratification-flap potentiometer | jbbf87 | Junction Box electronics Short Answer: Reconnect three wires to Potentiometer/ Controller. Be aware that Potentiometer can "Seize" if not activated/ knob NOT rotated for some time. If that is an issue, try to lubricate/ exercise the knob. In ANY event, make sure the wires are NOT shorting out, either to Chassis Ground or to each other. See attached ISTA ScreenPrints for proper connection & wire function. Thanks Mike!! Hope you've identified the culprit. Those are NOT bus wires, but they COULD Scramble/short things in the "Bus Hub"/ JBBF, so "we'll see". George |
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Mike K372.50 |
05-12-2024, 05:36 PM | #20 | |||||
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Thank you for all the additional detail, but I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding anything. I'll try to break it down so that I can make sure I understand what you're saying and what I need to check, but first, a clarification about the rear vents.
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2) Not exactly...the "car on lift" light shows up when I try to unlock the car or open the door, but the rest of the instrument cluster stays dark until I start it. That's when the light show starts. The wiper self-activation is a new thing, and yes, the times that it did it, the car was off, locked, and I was in the office with the keys in my pocket. 3) Yes, ignition on, engine off. 4) We took the car into the dealer for a recall a couple of weeks after we purchased it. They broke a component and needed to keep the car for a few days while they got a replacement (I think it was a PCV recall, but I'm not 100% certain). During this time, they called us and reported that the dash was going crazy. They found a corroded connector under the carpet (which was wet), and wanted to charge me $1,100 to fix it (mostly labor). I declined and paid the $100 diagnostic fee. After I got the car home, I removed the rear carpet and lifted the front, then dried the carpet in my garage. Afterwards, I cleaned the corrosion from the connector, added dielectric grease to keep future moisture out, and re-assembled the car. Since then the problem has continued to occur. We purchased the car at the end of January 2021. Since it was winter, I don't know whether the problem was there before the dealer, but the first we saw it was afterwards. Quote:
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Is there anything else I need to do that I missed from your instructions? |
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05-12-2024, 06:01 PM | #21 | |
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05-12-2024, 09:41 PM | #22 | |
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Everything points to an issue in the GREEN K-CAN LOW wire, an issue with a loose/ broken/ corroded/ damaged Pin/ Socket at one of the connectors, OR a wire fault between Connectors (in that GREEN wire). NOTE that there were TWO codes that first occurred after CLEARING faults, OR which NEVER Cleared. That is NOT including the 9C69 Code which appears to have NOT returned after you reconnected Rear Vent Potentiometer wires & cleared 9C69. Those two codes that did NOT clear are: 1) C904 JBE fault in CAN LOW (GREEN wire), which ProTool says has RECURRED Seven (7) Times. 2) E104 KOMBI/Instrument Cluster Fault which ProTool says has occurred "-1" times. NOT sure what "-1" means in "ProTool-Speak". Just based upon those two code descriptions, I would focus on the GREEN K-CAN Low wire between the TWO Connectors: X11175/7 (Socket #7 of Connector X11175) at Instrument Cluster, & X14272/31 (Black) Connector at the JBE. ISTA Wiring Diagram & Connector Views are attached to NEXT Post. CAREFULLY inspect the specific Pin/Socket at each connector for any damage or corrosion. THEN, with BOTH Connectors DIS-connected (from KOMBI & JBE) test Green wire as follows: 1) Test for Continuity between X11175/7 & X14272/31; should be ~ 0 Ohms resistance (say 0.01 Ohm); 2) Test for Continuity to Chassis Ground at EACH end or socket listed above; Ohms Reading SHOULD be Infinite (open-circuit), or "1" on most meters -- whatever your meter reads with meter probes NOT touching. 3) Jiggle wire when testing to see if resistance Changes (Intermittent fault). While it is POSSIBLE that there is an internal fault in a Module which is causing your issue, a wiring/connector fault is MORE Likely. Hang in there, we're ALL learning something from all your work. Please Identify the Connector the Dealer thought was issue, and the Connector you cleaned & applied dielectric grease to, so we have as much history as possible. There are MORE tests to locate the fault if these do NOT. It it were EASY, anyone could do it. George |
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