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Is BSW speaker upgrade worth it?
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10-31-2009, 12:09 AM | #89 | |||||||
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One is, if you have the measurement equipment, you can compare the OE speakers to your speakers - ignoring others. The competition for a BSW driver is first and foremost the OE driver. Why not address more where the differences lie? What about distortion? Specific efficiencies? Response matches to the OE amp's output? You address frequency response, but you don't mention a deviation (as you know, FR numbers without a +/-X dB deviation are not useful). Two, what testing? What equipment? What kind of tests? Don't mention the competitive gear, that's fine, but help us understand what kind of testing you have going on there there in your speaker lab. Quote:
Also, how far down is the tweeter at 2500? The F3 can't be 2500, you'd have to have a tweeter with a Fs of 600...? I'm guessing your F3 is 5000 and you are down 6dB at 2500? Quote:
But the equalized signal out of the amp is different in L7 and non-L7 cars. The non-L7 cars have a huge peak in the signal at 1K. I have assumed that this was due to the "dead" nature of the driver at 1K. If your driver is better in an absolute sense at 1K, wouldn't it sound bad in a HiFi system? |
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10-31-2009, 06:01 AM | #90 |
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Respectfully, I have not, and will never consider buying your speakers, as long as you keep insisting on including the rear speakers as part of the "Stage 1" upgrade. I'm not sure about you but when I drive, I sit in the FRONT. I face towards the FRONT. I also like to fade towards the FRONT for better soundstage. I therefore do not care about the rear speakers' quality or whether there are any there at all. I'm pretty sure, I'm not alone with my opinion. Therefore, I believe you are losing business, a lot of it!
Last edited by kaigoss69; 10-31-2009 at 06:28 AM.. |
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10-31-2009, 06:13 AM | #91 |
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And even if you were to offer a front stage only, I would still not buy your speakers because you offer a "one size fits all" solution, in terms of frequency response. This does not make sense to me, since the signals coming from the Hifi and L7 amps are so different. How can you make the same speaker sound "good" in both systems without compromising? I would always wonder how much better the speakers could sound if they were optimized for MY system only.
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10-31-2009, 10:31 AM | #92 | ||
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So when I am selecting the OEM audio type on the BSW web site, am I selecting different mids and tweets? I appreciate the BSW owner's intervention... |
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10-31-2009, 11:40 AM | #93 |
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I guess I could agree or disagree with anything said here, but I have a E93 and the stage 1 for my car has been "in development" forever. I couldn't buy it if I wanted to...
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11-01-2009, 08:30 PM | #94 | |||||||
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For the record, we are always working to bring pricing down. Right now, it doesn't make sense to do so as we are constantly running out of product -- we can't keep the stuff in stock -- and lowering pricing will only exacerbate the issues. However, we hope to have inventory issues resolved by early next year and intend to bring prices down so you guys get better value. Quote:
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For example, when we began selling our deck-mounted enclosures we originally gave out dimensions. Lo and behold, copies with those exact dimensions showed up all over eBay, without any regard to bracket design or placement which is what made our products unique. So, we took dimensions down but gave them when people asked. As an experiment, we changed some dimensions when we advised people to see what'd happen, and again copies matching the dimensions we gave showed up. The point is that the copies don't have to functionally match -- they only have to APPEAR to match to the uneducated customer to part them with their hard earned money for a sub-par product. Quote:
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That said, we are planning to provide FR response graphs directly comparing OE to BSW Stage 1 speakers in the near future, which should answer a significant portion of your questions. Wish I could give info now and an exact date but unfortunately I can't. Slammed as I'm headed to SEMA and have lots to do before I head out, and tons going on at the company (new products coming down the pipe, working on resolving inventory issues, etc. etc.) that it is just not on the priority list. Quote:
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Unfortunately, we have to make compromises -- there's no way we can make different drivers for HiFi and L7 given current sales levels and make any money, and we can't release product if we can't make money from it. No way around that. So we have a solution that isn't as good as it could be, but still a great solution for many people, but not everyone. However, that's not the whole story. We are also in development on an amplifier replacement that's intended to work with our HiFi Stage 1, so optimizing the HiFi drivers for the OEM amp reduces the performance of the amp upgrade w/o extra hardware, etc., something we don't want to do. |
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11-01-2009, 08:32 PM | #95 | |
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11-01-2009, 08:38 PM | #96 | |
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1. In most OE systems, volume is insufficient without the use of all the stock drivers. If you can't fade to the front and still have enough output, then you've got to keep it closer to the middle and the rear speakers DO come into play and affect sound quality at that point. So we replace them in order to make the biggest difference possible with just a speaker upgrade. 2. Many end users have blown speakers, often rear speakers, and need replacements. 3. Lots of people PREFER rear fill or can't wrap their head around not replacing the rear speakers. I won't argue that the front sound stage is what's important. But we are a business and in order to stay in business and be able to make and sell products, we have to give customers what they want, even if it's not what we do in our personal cars or even recommend. We do attempt to educate customers where possible but we are not in the business of changing people's minds about what sounds good to THEM. |
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11-01-2009, 08:41 PM | #97 | |
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In the case of new generation cars, not enough of them have come out of the warranty period or have second owners to generate the volume of business we need to have two different versions of the midranges. In the future it's likely that we WILL sell two different versions, one for L7 and one for HiFi, but for not it's simply not possible so we DO have to compromise. Hope that clarifies. Again, we are a business and unfortunately we do have to compromise as we are operating with limited resources. We try to make as few as possible, and we try to make our product appealing to as many as possible, but it's not for everyone. |
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11-01-2009, 09:45 PM | #98 |
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I do not think it is worth it. Sound quality will be a bit better. However, it will not be much louder because you are still pushing the same wattage to speakers.
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11-01-2009, 10:19 PM | #99 |
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Oh man... if you guys offer an amp/speaker package then I will for sure pick one up. I'm looking forward to seeing this now.
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11-01-2009, 10:31 PM | #100 | |
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Are you SURE that the original poster needs more volume? Many don't. They just want to enhance SQ. Point being, generalizations usually aren't helpful and it's better to dig in and really establish what someone needs before making product recommendations or advising whether or not something is a good fit. We tell plenty of people our Stage 1 isn't for them. And we tell plenty it is. But you have to find out what someone REALLY wants first to be able to say one way or another. |
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11-01-2009, 10:32 PM | #101 | |
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In the meantime, you're welcome to purchase a Stage 1, see if it sounds good enough to you to get you through until we release the amp upgrade, and if it does keep it. If not, send it back for a full refund and reorder when the amp comes out if you haven't tried another route. |
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11-02-2009, 12:27 AM | #102 | |
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thanks. |
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11-02-2009, 08:12 AM | #103 | |||
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However, I cannot argue with your point about being a business. From your perspective you need to offer a product that makes a profit. If you have a hard time keeping up with demand right now, it would probably not make sense to offer your products in smaller chunks, unless you raised the profit margins on those chunks or invested in a higher production capacity. |
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11-02-2009, 10:45 AM | #104 | ||||
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Look, you make reasonable points but we have to make compromises in order to survive. |
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11-02-2009, 10:48 AM | #105 |
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11-02-2009, 11:10 AM | #106 |
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Supply issues are caused by undercapitalization. Up until about 2 months ago we did not have enough free capital to purchase inventories in sufficient quantities to get us through the period of time it takes for another production run. So, we have been constantly running out.
About 2 months ago we obtained the capital we need to resolve the issue and we are receiving in mid-November through early December the first production run we've had that should be big enough to carry us until we receive the next one. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that sales will jump once inventory is consistent so we'll see if this actually resolves the issue or if we simply have a boost in volume that eats up the inventory buffers. Good problems to have, though. |
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11-02-2009, 11:32 AM | #107 | |
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We had originally planned to use the same driver that we do in E90 cars because it is SO close in terms of mounting depth and it works if you tear a little hole in the foam of the door, but it just wasn't what we wanted to do. So we redesigned the driver, maintaining all the performance (same efficiency, suspension travel, FR, etc.) but getting those extra couple of millimeters of clearance by inverting the surround and moving everything "up" a couple millimeters. Anyway, we just gave the green light on production, and we are now waiting on an estimate of when the first run will be completed. We are expecting to have product in mid to late Winter, MAYBE early Spring if things take longer than expected. |
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11-02-2009, 06:51 PM | #108 | |
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11-02-2009, 07:16 PM | #109 |
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11-03-2009, 09:14 AM | #110 |
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Is BSW speaker upgrade worth it?
Hi all you. I all ready have the stage one .! you won't get the sound you hope for. No matter how expensive a speaker system you get, it will always sound like S _ _ _!!!!!!! Why ..? because the Logic 7 is not worth one dime.!! I did a complete rebuild of the sound system, wanna see.? then search google . logic 7 kills good music
Peace out. Last edited by hudmamma; 11-03-2009 at 09:36 AM.. |
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