[dbjb]

Originally Posted by aus

That's a lot of crashes. Were these while "racing" of with point by's only?
It seems many are from semi racing situation where you can pass anywhere and just hope the guy in front of you see's you.

Most crashes I've witnessed had nothing to do with another vehicle. It's usually caused by an inexperienced driver making a mistake that upsets the balance of the car. Quick lift off the throttle tends to be the biggest culprit whether it be mid turn, on a crest, off camber, etc.

Both crashes at Infineon were caused by that exact thing. A SRT4 lost it on turn 3a. Lifted at the apex which is slightly off camber and the crest of the hill. Spun right into the wall. An M coupe lifted on turn 8a causing the rear end to come around and backed into the wall.

This is why I'm such a firm believer in HPDE/driving schools. Any car can be a challenge to handle near the limit. There's people with 500hp that spent gobs of money on go fast parts. Yet, many of them find little value in a $200 driving school. If they do see the value and attend an event, they need to be humble and willing to LEARN. One session or event is not enough to start driving at 9/10ths. Take your time.

My favorite statement I've heard at the track is, "Nothing you do today will increase the value of your car." I keep that in mind when I'm seeking the limit.

[aus]

I just wanted to know if these were open track session vs. a supervised event where there were instructors in the cars like the way the BMWCCA runs their HPDE?

[swartzentruber]

I spun on a pretty wet track at Autobahn CC this year, and got the car straight, but slid straight into a tire wall as the wet grass provided no stopping traction. Probably did around $5K in damages all in, even though the hit to the tire wall didn't seem to be that fast (hint -- bumpers cost a lot to replace). I'm still not entirely sure what caused the spin, and even my experienced instructor didn't have a lot of explanation. Certainly a big contributor was running on an R compound (Pilot Sport Cup) in the wet, though I thought the PSC had better wet traction than most. I've heard that track doesn't have great drainage, though.

In my HPDE experience, most of the serious off-track excursion have either come in the wet or very cold tracks. It takes some work to have a serious incident in the dry, but wet tracks open up a lot of possibilities (see recent F1 race in Korea). I've certainly learned my lesson about Rs in the wet.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by aus

That's a lot of crashes. Were these while "racing" or with point by's only?
It seems many are from semi racing situation where you can pass anywhere and just hope the guy in front of you see's you.

right on. It was an HPDE event with a single advanced group (zero instructors present) running before/after the club racers. No beginners, no intermediates. Testosterone was running a bit high. Point-bys required but no restrictions on passing zones.

[aus]

Most people say almost all the "off's" occur in the "A" group or group where passing is pretty much open and there are minimal instructors out there.

[pancakenipples]

Originally Posted by meepster

In DE it's usually pretty safe. The racers are where you see more contact/damage. It's just about taking it slow until you're comfortable and staying on the line.

Syndicate - nice to meet you this weekend! For the others that are interested, that Maserati he mentioned is depicted below. Totally sucks...

Ha!..Ha!!!....tool bag

[pancakenipples]

fuel pump....


and traction...

[vwong]

Originally Posted by aus

Most people say almost all the "off's" occur in the "A" group or group where passing is pretty much open and there are minimal instructors out there.

In my experience, most accidents (solo crashes or rollovers) occurred in the intermediate and beginner groups. In the advanced group, I see mostly mechanical failures (blown motors or transmissions).

[vwong]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

Certainly a big contributor was running on an R compound (Pilot Sport Cup) in the wet, though I thought the PSC had better wet traction than most.

The only R-comp tire that offers better wet traction is full tread Toyo RA-1. Otherwise, I'd stay with high-performance street tires under wet conditions.

[The HACK]

The biggest damage I've done on track is to my relationship with my SO.

That and it's made a huge dent in the pocket book.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Be careful!

[JoosyJoos]

I was driving my fathers Z4 M coupe and was doing great in the beginner group at Road Atlanta. The crappy continentals were getting a little greasy but they were hanging on alright. Went into turn one and understeered a bit, lost the banking going up the hill... continued braking in a straight line until I went off the track--- would have been fine but hit the curbing perpendicular. Obviously that was a pretty hard hit.... imagine hitting a speed bump at around 50mph. Popped 2 bumper clips because the tires on the right side compressed so much they hit the inside of the fenders. Got back on the track and thought everything was fine until I made it to about turn 5 when I realized that the front tire was completely flat. Got it back to the paddock.... turns out I bent the 2 rims on the right side into semi circles practically lol.

[snosk8tr123]

I've ran out of gas on the track and i've blown a tire on the track. The tire explosion caused some damage to my bumpers/fenders/sideskirts and headlight

[TSM330i]

Just stone chips so far and obviously wear on tires.
HPDE with BMWCCA are fantastic! Definitely get out there and have some fun.
This past August I was at NJMP and there were NO major incidents the entire weekend (for all three run groups). Just a couple offs with a tire needing to be remounted (not me).

I laugh at all the guys on this forum that spend all this money to modify their cars and then just look at them! Get out there and give it a try. You'll be hooked quickly.

[trboboost91]

I shelled a motor last year in my 135.
Only made it to the third session.
What a pity.

[John_01]

What is the cause of getting stone chip damage on a circuit? Does it only happen due to following the car in front?

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by John_01

What is the cause of getting stone chip damage on a circuit? Does it only happen due to following the car in front?

From coming up behind someone and then passing them. You essentially ride up on them and in the passing zone they point you bye.

The BMWCCA events are very controlled and have designated passing areas that you can only pass when the person in front of you gives you a point bye. This way, you know they saw you and you can pass safely.

[John_01]

Sure.. that makes sense. Thanks!

[vwong]

Originally Posted by John_01

What is the cause of getting stone chip damage on a circuit? Does it only happen due to following the car in front?

People put wheels off onto the dirt and would kick up rocks. My friend got a big dent on the front fender of his S2000 once. I felt bad for him because it was me who kicked up that rock.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by vwong

People put wheels off onto the dirt and would kick up rocks.

Yep.

- stone chips typically from off-track excursions. Typically on hood and fenders.
- marble marks from on-track following/passing. On hood, fenders, windshield & roof!

[Ensi]

I blew my motor on a 5-2 money shift in STI at about 110ish, AWD saved my butt....

[Pinarello Rider]

I saw a Ferrari at VIR that had a gentle run in with a barrier. Driver got a little aggressive going into "the b****"- early in, early out. I'll never make that mistake. I'll make others, I'm sure.